Sink drain valve

[MyronL]

My Burro has no place to drain out grey water from the sink. Underneath, there was a 3/4" plastic white and turquoise hose from the trap that I think went to a port on the lower side wall. Or maybe not. So much has changed since I began tearing things apart and rebuilding, I forgot where that drain hose fed to.

I do not want to feed it out the side walls again. Straight down through the floor, I think, is better. I will need a valve down there to control the flow, but what kind is best? My guess is a valve that will screw into a standard garden hose that can feed into a grey water bucket or connect to sewer lines.

Where to get one is my problem. Seems none of the RV suppliers even address this. Do I have to make my own?

[Loren G. Hedahl]

For what you want to do I would use a plastic ball valve. These are available in Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, etc. in a variety of sizes and with threaded or glue up ends. The advantage over other types is they have no restriction when fully open and there is no place for sediment, debris etc. to hang up and foul the valve. There is also no corrosion, need for lubrication or rubber washers to wear out. They work well in a low pressure application.

That said, I would not do this for several of reasons:

1) Every time you want to use your sink you have to attach a container, or place a bucket to catch the outflow.

2) I don't know about the east USA, but in the western states it isn't legal to drain into an open bucket. The legal apparatus is complicated with several valves and vents to assure that no grey water will ever leak.

3) The tendency would be to just let the grey water dump on the ground when no one was looking. That's probably OK on your lawn or whatever, but frowned upon in parking lots, rest areas, etc.

Why not use a 3 - 5 gallon bottle under the sink fed by a flexible hose. That would be enough capacity for a lunch or two, brushing teeth and rinsing a cabbage. It is also small enough to lift out and dispose of in a proper manner. I have three rectanguler 6-gal water bottles I got at Wal-Mart in a row under the sink with a soft rubber hose long enough to reach them all. I let them fill to approx. 1/2 to 2/3 and shift over to the next. That way they aren't too heavy, and if an opportunity doesn't present to dump there is still several gallons left to top them off if necessary.

I also have a small folding hand truck for times when they are quite full, or I have to transport them a long distance.

You might want to consider a similar system. It has worked for us for as long as we have had small trailers.

[MyronL]

Thanks, Loren, I will follow your suggestion. Instead of drilling holes for valves I will get myself some large containers.

I share your views on draining grey water though I didn't know there were laws against it. Of course I have no desire to foul any campsite. I think it strange that Burro did not include a gray water tank as standard, but there seems to be no provision for one anywhere on the vehicle.

If someone with a Burro has a grey water tank for their sink I'd like to know where it is placed. Maybe I can get one?

[Donna D.]

I'm thinking most gray water tanks are rear of the axle underneath the table/bed floor. My Scamp's is hung between the frame rails with straps and the dump valve is on the curb side.

[Brian B-P]

The lack of a greywater tank in many trailers seemed strange to me too, but now I realize that tent and travel trailers without showers commonly have only a supply tank, especially in older units. Many members of this and other forums have discussed their inside, outside, and built-in-by-owner solutions to the problem.

My 17-foot Boler's standard greywater tank is mounted just like the freshwater tank. Both sit on steel angle sections which are bolted across the frame rails, so the tanks are under the floor between the rails and hanging somewhat below them. At 4" high, the frame on this trailer is deep compared to most smaller fiberglass trailers, so there's not much room in most for the tank. My tank is just ahead of the axle (with the freshwater just behind), where is near the sink, under the shower, and away from the ends of the frame to minimize the risk of dragging. The dump valve is on the service side (not the curb side) with the black tank valve, which I believe is the common setup.

In a trailer with no shower or blackwater tank and a small freshwater tank I too would personally want to use Loren's under-sink portable container idea instead building in a tank, although I have no ideas what specific space issues might be enountered in a Burro.

(Edit note: added italicized reference to blackwater tank)

[Gina D.]

13 footers do not have a grey water tank.

Try looking at Tote A Longs

I have the 10 gallon one, and outside of the fact that it is a bit heavy for me to lift and roll when it's full, they were custom made for this purpose!

I have also replaced it with a 5 gallon plastic kerosene can, believe it or not, (About 7 bucks at any camping store) simply because it is easier for me to dump, in the toilet or a dump station or sewer connection.

I have NO problems with my drain coming out the side, it hooks up in just a second or two with a garden type hose, and I can dump it at my liesure, without having to move the trailer when it gets full.

I have never heard of dumping in a bucket being illegal, I see it everywhere, and the 5 gallon (Or what have you) grey tank is legally dumped in a toilet.. pit or flush.

EZ PZ.

[Byron Kinnaman]

It IS illegal has been for quite some time to not have a closed container to catch gray water in Oregon. Open buckets are forbidden.

I have a gray water tank on my 13' Scamp. It just behind the axel and the drain is opposite of Donna's, it's on the street side.
If I didn't have a gray water tank, I'd probably use a Tote A long.

[Tom Trostel]

Compact Jr. has no gray water storage tank. Drain is on the exterior wall beside the city water intake. I use a 3' section of garden hose to connect to a 5 gallon plastic tub on the ground. The tub lid has a hole for the hose to go through. It works well but it's not water tight, so I need to stay out of Oregon. I've thought about using a Coleman 5 gallon expandable water carrier for a gray water catch basin but would need some type air valve to insure a good flow. I also carry a 20' length of garden hose to hook up to sewer if that is an option at the campgrounds. Tom Trostel

[Gina D.]

The fresh tank in the Burro can be pushed back farther. I discovered it slides pretty easily on my last trip when it took a walk across ythe cubby. The strap stopped it from walking across the whole back end and disconnecting itself

You may be able to shove it back and redo the strap and tubing to/from it, then put a small tank next to it to drain into. You could set it up to lift out pretty easily.

I have thought of putting a smaller portable FRESH tank in there so I wouldn't have to struggle with water at sites with no water hook ups. Just dump it in thru the cubby and use the hand pump. I have a valve in between my old electric only faucet (I left it in meerly for the pump switch) and can actually still use that faucet by turning the inline valve.

I suspect the same could be done easily with the fresh water tanks.. switching a valve and getting water from the smaller tank.

Thats a mod for "whenever" tho.

[Mike Taylor]

My Compact II had an outside connection for hooking up a container with a hose. I converted it to inside holding tank by using a collapable 5 gallon water container. No need to worry about air venting if you start with the jug collapsed, it expands as it fills and has a nice carry handle. Outside tanks aren't too good if you're overnighting in a WalMart parking lot. Mike

[Pete Dumbleton]

My 91S13 has no gray tank -- I use a piece of garden hose connected to the side drain outlet that goes thru a hole drilled in the cap of a 1 gallon laundry detergent jug -- The clearance between the hose and the cap is sufficient for venting but small enuf to block the small gnats and flies that accumumulate around open gray water. I just occasionally heft the jug and empty it into the CG toilet as needed.

[Gary Lynch]

Most of the older 13' trailers did not have a gray water tank. I like many have the outside connection for a short piece of hose that you can stick into a exterior container. I guess I'll improvise a tight seal where the hose connects to the container and use this until I am arrested by the 'Gray Water Police'.

[Loren G. Hedahl]

Concerning the legality issue -- it probably still is illegal still to drip grey water on the pavement in many places, but any law enforcement agent old enough to remember that has probably long since retired or gone on to bigger and better things.

In the late 60's and 70's it seemed like every other family had a 3/4 ton pickup and an 8 or 9 ft camper. In the summer there were millions of these roaming around. No motor homes then. Fifth wheels hadn't been produced yet. Just a few travel trailers, usually 15 to 20 ft. unless the owners were affluent and had an Airstream, Avion, Streamline, Boles Arrow, etc. of around 25 ft. There just weren't tugs to pull anything much larger.

The smaller units and most of the larger didn't even come with grey water tanks, so when the camper fad hit, rest stop parking lots especially got pretty gross. Public dump stations at rest stops were also almost non-existent, so when you stepped out you sometimes wondered whether it was grey or black. Of course I'm spreading it on a little thick here, but it apparently became important enough to take up discussion time and consideration by the houses of Congress in some of our state Capitals.

Then a bunch of "approved" grey water contraptions came on the market, of which only the blue wheeled units survived the test of time to any extent. What really cleaned the situation up was the larger tow vehicles, larger units with sufficient tankage and convenient dump stations.

Pete -- I'll bet you have never been accosted by the law or even looked at askance by some do-gooder (or is it doo-gooder) while connecting or disconnecting your gallon jug of Scamp efluent. The whole thing is pretty much a non-issue any more.

Sorry 'bout the history lesson, but us old grey-heads just kind of gravitate to our soap boxes from time-to-time.

[CD Smith]

Oh Yes, the good old days!

When I moved from Florida to Texas in 1968, by way of Long Island, New York, I was shocked to see the guy in the campsite next to me drive one front wheel up on the pavement next to the picnic table and drain the oil out of his engine. Right there on the ground.

Texas state parks have a long standing law that you do not dump water of any kind on the ground in any of their campsites. This doesn't stop Texans from doing whatever they feel like doing. Recently I saw on camper draining his grey water thru a garden hose into the very convienent lake.

As for my self, whenever I am camping in my Casita with the closet mounted A/C and the humidity is high, I put a bucket down to catch the precipitent dripping from the A/C. I periodically dump this down the cammode. I am very upset when I am away too long and it overflows.

Just my thoughts about this subject.

[Donna D.]

I for one am grateful for a law that prohibits dumping of gray water onto the ground. Campsites are getting more and more use ever year with the more popular parks being completely full nearly year around. Can you even imagine what an awful mess the area around a trailer would be without this law Even the unimproved sites or areas off the beaten path where one can tow a trailer for camping would be awful. Garbage doesn't necessarily have to be the stuff that needs to be thrown into cans, as far as I'm concerned...water waste products qualify too.

[Gina D.]

I have been known to dump grey in the fire pit. Usually the last cleaning stuff just before going away.

Ya gotta douse the pit anyway, and the ground is not exactly pristine there to start with.

I would never just dump it in the site in a hidden area. It only takes a few extra steps to get it to a toilet or dump station. With the smaller container I got, this is clean, easy and painless.

[Roger H]

Along with Loren's post, we are victims of our own national desire to "get away". The early '50s camping trailers, when they came with instructions, had instructions about how to dig a "gopher hole" into which the toilet and gray water all dumped straight down from the fixtures, and then you filled the 'gopher hole' back in before you left. Sort of a sophisticated trench latrine or pit toilet. That was in the days when there weren't RV parks per se, and just about any field or area next to a lake where you weren't trampling on someone's crops was an appropriate place to park.

When I first visited Mt. Rushmore in June of 1968, there was a small visitor's center, an overlook deck, and a large gravel parking lot that had a dozen or so cars in it. When I was there in 1992, there was a huge visitor's center, an amphitheater, and a five tier parking lot that was packed, and you could hardly see the monument for the people. Now I understand there's a multi-level parking garage! When I first saw Yosemite in the early '70s it was spectacular, and hardly anyone there. Last time I was there, (in the early '90s) there was enough smog in the valley that the air was brown, and there wasn't anywhere to park. Once upon a time at the geysers in yellowstone, you actually walked on the rock and could peer into the pools to see what was going on. Now, there are so many folks that the park service has had to build catwalks over the rock to protect the fragile limestone geysers environment from so many footfalls.

Camping used to be 'getting away from it all'. It's now become 'taking it all with you' while you travel and living in the 'burbs with your camper in some parts of the country. By the sheer numbers of folks who now camp, and the number of folks who camp who are absolutely clueless, it is necessary to regulate their conduct in the way they dispose of wastes. I have become a little more aggressive (while not militant) about discussing with clueless campers (in a pleasant, helpful way of course) when I see them fouling the campsites. Some are very nice and accept the suggestions in the spirit in which they're given. Some flash the finger and tell me to do something anatomically impossible. The range of folks camping is quite amazing, but we can all do our part to help keep our favorite 'getaway' places clean for our next trip.

Roger

[Barbara Gardin]

We seem to have a different set up. We use the largest oil change pan available. I think it is 3 gallons but we are frugal with water use. It slides nicely under the Boler and connects with a hose from the drain. It has a carry handle for emptying isn't too heavy and being relatively flat is easy to store. Works great for us.

[Frederick L. Simson]

Campsites are getting more and more use ever year with the more popular parks being completely full nearly year around.

I just read that the population of the USA will top [b]300,000,000 sometime this comming October.

[Loren G. Hedahl]

Barbara, I like the oil drain pan idea.

I had actually considered using one for the kitchen sink. The one I use for changing oil would be perfect, if I could find a new one like it. It has a drain plug and even a screen to keep large chunks out. There is a handle and vent on one side and a spout with a screw on cap on the other for draining.

The only problem was asthetics. I remember many years ago there was something like that on the market for tent or tail gate kitchens. Maybe they are still available.