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07-07-2012, 07:24 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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Starting my new woodwork.
So I have started actual construction of my new woodwork after weeks of design, planning and materials/tool shopping.
Here is a image from a 3D design application (Maya) of the all the pieces laid out in places. The bulk of the woodwork will be in the front, this is looking from the left of the trailer.
There will be:
2 rear shelves between the over bed cabinet and the closet/kitchen top cabinet.
3 shelves in the left front "seat" area and the "seat" will be sort of a shelf itself, so I store things under it easily. The lower of the top 3 will also match up with the kitchen counter to extend that counter space.
2 pieces front a rear to make space for passing wiring and plumbing easy. The front center/floor piece will also get a shower quick connect and hot/cold knobs for my shower.
A "seat" with a hatch for the porta potty. It's shown in the image opened.
Then lastly a table top, that will also fit between the two seat so in theory with some reconfiguration I could still use that area as a bed. But also will give me a place to sit at a table without converting the rear bed. We shall see how using that front space for storage, shower, toilet AND office will work out!
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07-07-2012, 07:32 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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So here is the first bit I'm building, the rear right shelf. Seemed like a simple piece to start with. No curved back like the front shelves and seat will need (those curves are not shown in the design and will be hand shaped per part. That will not be fast)
About to glue on the other side and clamp it. I did use clamps when doing this side, but I took them off after it set some and I was ready to put the second side on. Then clamped it between two flat and sturdy boards.
Here you can see the main shelf body assembled and I'm sanding down the sides so the molding edge will fit flush. I'm very pleased at how strong and light the shelf is!!! Feels like balsa or dense foam when you pick it up, but it's hard like a hard wood! (birch plywood and molding, poplar framing)
First molding in place and sanded pretty smooth, I'll need a little filler, but it's not too bad. Hopefully I'll get my technique down better and the other shelves, woodworking will be more precise.
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07-07-2012, 07:35 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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Anyone know about coating woodwork with epoxy resin? Or other methods to get a gel coat like finish? Or at least kind of smooth and glossy so at a glance it will match the fiberglass interior parts?
Can I just use acetone to thin the resin, not use too much hardener so I have plenty of working time and then just use a paint roller to get a somewhat even finish? Sand the heck out of it when hard/dry? Then have a painter spray it with gloss white enamel?
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07-07-2012, 09:08 PM
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#4
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Junior Member
Name: kathi
Trailer: looking
Washington
Posts: 1
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Don't mess around with epoxy, it is not needed.
You can do this job yourself, no need to hire it out.
Use a high build automotive spray primer, you can get it in white. Any small flaws can be evened out with spot putty. Sand between primer coats until you get that smooth finish you desire. Then top with several coats of automotive white gloss enamel spray paint. I like the DupliColor Brand of automotive paints.
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07-07-2012, 09:28 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Name: Denny
Trailer: Lil Snoozy
Michigan
Posts: 552
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Use the correct ratio of resin to hardener. It won't harden at all if you deviate from the mfr recommended ratio. Do not thin the resin with acetone or anything else for that matter. If you want it thinner to flow better just heat it up to 80 or 90 degrees F. If you want longer open time use a slower hardener or mix smaller batches more frequently.
WEST System has great tech resources on the web. They are the experts, their advice applies no matter what brand you use.
One coat of epoxy, sand thoroughly with 80 grit, another coat, sand with 120, two costs of paint will give a very smooth surface (like gel coat)
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07-07-2012, 09:34 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathikutie
Don't mess around with epoxy, it is not needed.
You can do this job yourself, no need to hire it out.
Use a high build automotive spray primer, you can get it in white. Any small flaws can be evened out with spot putty. Sand between primer coats until you get that smooth finish you desire. Then top with several coats of automotive white gloss enamel spray paint. I like the DupliColor Brand of automotive paints.
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Are you suggesting spray cans? Or can you use brushes, rollers on that stuff. Some flex will be needed, I don't want to spend hours and hours getting an awesome gloss finish with a lot of built up material and then have it crack the first time some weight gets placed on it or bumping around while being towed.
I do not mind paying someone with spray booth. I have TONS of stuff to get done on this project. I have no problem outsourcing. That said, I was expecting to do the priming and initial sanding myself.
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07-07-2012, 09:37 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCDenny
Use the correct ratio of resin to hardener. It won't harden at all if you deviate from the mfr recommended ratio. Do not thin the resin with acetone or anything else for that matter. If you want it thinner to flow better just heat it up to 80 or 90 degrees F. If you want longer open time use a slower hardener or mix smaller batches more frequently.
WEST System has great tech resources on the web. They are the experts, their advice applies no matter what brand you use.
One coat of epoxy, sand thoroughly with 80 grit, another coat, sand with 120, two costs of paint will give a very smooth surface (like gel coat)
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Good info. I have experimented with the Bondo resin. Seems the first batch was solid in about 5 minutes as I was just starting to apply it. So tried much less hardener, took more like 30 minutes to completely harden, which worked great. But I hope I didn't loose strength doing that.
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07-08-2012, 08:21 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: Denny
Trailer: Lil Snoozy
Michigan
Posts: 552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanear
Good info. I have experimented with the Bondo resin. Seems the first batch was solid in about 5 minutes as I was just starting to apply it. So tried much less hardener, took more like 30 minutes to completely harden, which worked great. But I hope I didn't loose strength doing that.
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That's because Bondo is not epoxy. It is polyester, a completely different chemistry. Polyester has a strong styrene smell and is catalyzed with a very small amount of hardener. Consumer epoxies have very little smell and range from 2:1 to 5:1 resin:hardener ratios.
I don't know if the Bondo strength was compromised by the reduced amount of hardener. I use lots of epoxy building wooden boats and know most epoxy cure problems come from getting the mix ratio wrong.
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07-08-2012, 10:33 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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Personally, I can't see using either epoxy (ain't sanding that stuff, folks) or polyester resin as an interior finish. You're not crossing the seams of those torsion boxes (doors, lids) with glass mat, so why do you need the resin? Spray with a rattle can and you're done. Constructing "for the ages" is a beginner's preoccupation. I like the lghtwgt. torsion boxes (for lightwgt) but not for some mythic, cutting edge tech-iness which they don't have no matter they were modeled in a computer design program.
jack
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07-08-2012, 10:38 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: gave up!!
California
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit
Personally, I can't see using either epoxy (ain't sanding that stuff, folks) or polyester resin as an interior finish. You're not crossing the seams of those torsion boxes (doors, lids) with glass mat, so why do you need the resin? Spray with a rattle can and you're done. Constructing "for the ages" is a beginner's preoccupation. I like the lghtwgt. torsion boxes (for lightwgt) but not for some mythic, cutting edge tech-iness which they don't have no matter they were modeled in a computer design program.
jack
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I think Dylan suggested it because he wants to match the gel coat as closely as possible, so the thought was to use resin to coat the parts and make them as smooth as he can before paint.
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07-08-2012, 11:01 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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John, given the half-round molding, I can see how Dylan might be anticipating a molded look. Whether he'll get and keep that look with resin bridging glue lines in wood isn't really open to question. He'll get expansion and contraction and print-thru in gluelines no matter the finish. imho, the finish can be as cheap and expedient as possible and yield results equal to those of catalyzed resins.
jack
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07-08-2012, 08:27 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit
Spray with a rattle can and you're done. Constructing "for the ages" is a beginner's preoccupation. I like the lghtwgt. torsion boxes (for lightwgt) but not for some mythic, cutting edge tech-iness which they don't have no matter they were modeled in a computer design program.
jack
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Any proposed "mythic, cutting edge tech-iness" is in your imagination, not any claims I've made. I simply know that design program already and laying it out in there was much easier to me than trying to making tons of paper plans.
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07-08-2012, 08:33 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit
John, given the half-round molding, I can see how Dylan might be anticipating a molded look. Whether he'll get and keep that look with resin bridging glue lines in wood isn't really open to question. He'll get expansion and contraction and print-thru in gluelines no matter the finish. imho, the finish can be as cheap and expedient as possible and yield results equal to those of catalyzed resins.
jack
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Yes, I'm just trying to get as good a match to the look of the fiberglass gel coated pieces as possible and hopefully a nice seal for moisture. I'll be painting the back sides of the seats and such as well for durability.
Just hoping to get advise on the most durable, glossy, even finish that I can practically expect. It's an experiment, I don't expect perfection. Hoping for "looks really cool" at a glance, no huge seams or cracks.
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07-08-2012, 08:39 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCDenny
That's because Bondo is not epoxy. It is polyester, a completely different chemistry. Polyester has a strong styrene smell and is catalyzed with a very small amount of hardener. Consumer epoxies have very little smell and range from 2:1 to 5:1 resin:hardener ratios.
I don't know if the Bondo strength was compromised by the reduced amount of hardener. I use lots of epoxy building wooden boats and know most epoxy cure problems come from getting the mix ratio wrong.
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This is not the Bondo putty most people consider "Bondo" It's a resin for fiberglass repair. Not sure what it's made of, perhaps it is polyester based. It is a bit stinky, not sure I'd associate it with a styrene smell. But it was the tiny amounts of hardener, so it may share a polyester chemistry with it's famous putty sibling.
Perhaps I'll try a some on a small bit of wood and see what kind of finish I can get.
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07-08-2012, 09:19 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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[QUOTE=dylanear;320279]Any proposed "mythic, cutting edge tech-iness" is in your imagination, not any claims I've made.
By George you're right sorry Dylan!! Sometimes I hear little noises--in my imagination.
jack
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07-08-2012, 09:24 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: Denny
Trailer: Lil Snoozy
Michigan
Posts: 552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanear
This is not the Bondo putty most people consider "Bondo" It's a resin for fiberglass repair. Not sure what it's made of, perhaps it is polyester based. It is a bit stinky, not sure I'd associate it with a styrene smell. But it was the tiny amounts of hardener, so it may share a polyester chemistry with it's famous putty sibling.
Perhaps I'll try a some on a small bit of wood and see what kind of finish I can get.
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Epoxy is a powerful glue and a relatively hard coating. Polyester doesn't stick to wood nearly as well as epoxy but may stick good enough for your cabinets. It is less expensive than epoxy. Epoxy can be had with different cure speed hardeners, giving open time at 70 degrees from maybe 10-15 minutes for fast to up to an hour for slow hardener. You won't find the epoxy you need at the hardware store, but it's available online. I get mine at Raka.com.
Several coats of paint will make a smooth surface on a close grained wood like poplar or birch but paint will take forever to fill an open grain wood like oak or mahogany. Epoxy will fill oak with two coats. Google "roll and tip" for the best way to get a spray painted look without spraying.
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07-08-2012, 09:41 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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My worry about seriously hard coatings, especially ones that will dry fast with a curing agent is making a unsmooth mess that cannot be sanded smooth or removed, ruining, or at least uglifying a lot of very hard work.
I'd like to build it up with layers, so any one layer not being ideal can just be sanded smooth. But I don't want to have to do 37 coats, sanding between each one to get a smooth glossy finish either!
Really, I'd be happy to drop this stuff off at a pro shop and throw money at it until it looks great. But not sure many pros will know what to do, they seem to all specialize in something, and this kind of custom experimenting isn't it.
But there is a paint shop very close to my workspace and they seem like they might be able to help. I'll be taking them one of my shelves and a cabinet door tomorrow (want those painted white too), we'll see what they say.
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07-08-2012, 10:57 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: gave up!!
California
Posts: 238
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Dylan... I just had an idea... I once used some appliance paint that was an expoy and was self leveling. Was in a spray can. Left a finish like I took it to a body shop and had it wet sanded and polished. This would allow you to do it in single coats instead of one thick layer. Then if you needed to do any sanding, it wouldn't be on a thick layer of gunk.... Just a thought.
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07-08-2012, 11:17 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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07-08-2012, 11:19 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Name: Dylan
Trailer: 2001 Scamp 13'
British Columbia
Posts: 798
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I have two uses in mind, but if one product/process would work for both, great. There's getting a lovely finish on my woodwork, but I also want a serious coating on my plywood floors before I put the Allure down and start building furniture on top.
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