Tankless Hot Water Heater Help

[wessonjoe]

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the L5 comes with a baffle to redirect the exhaust.
if the unit is placed inside with the exhaust properly redirected to the exterior without melting the fiberglass shell, it is possible to be safe.
the wieght and fuel savings are worth the effort.
happy DIYing!


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[Rusty99]

Originally Posted by Bananaman

Rusty, Also being here in Alberta I am going to pick up 'BaseCamp' unit at Cabelas for $400. Works on either electric or propane. It will work for me.

Ken, this looks like an excellent solution for the Boler. If it works as well as the reviews say.
Base Camp Companion Aqua Cube Hot Water System | Cabela's Canada

This video explains it nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwllrbDe-KY

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

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the L5 comes with a baffle to redirect the exhaust.
if the unit is placed inside with the exhaust properly redirected to the exterior without melting the fiberglass shell, it is possible to be safe.
the wieght and fuel savings are worth the effort.
happy DIYing!


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We operate our water heater in the same manner as Bob Miller .IE Turn it on for a short period in the morning giving us hot water all day for washing dishes .If we plan to take a shower in the evening ,we again turn on the water heater for a short period and shower . Our standby losses are minimal . It takes the same amount of energy to heat X amount of water X number of degrees whether you are using a standard water heater or a tankless water heater . Thus my question "WHAT ENERGY SAVINGS ?" Also when we travel our water tank & water heater are empty so again "WHAT WEIGHT SAVINGS?" What difference does water weight make when you are stationary at a campsite.? The logic expressed for using a tankless water heater just for the sake of using a tankless water heater escapes me

PS I have installed hundreds of tankless water heaters and have taken 1/2 of them back out because they would not function as desired . No water heating system is 100% perfect

[Bob Miller]

Yep, as Steve mentioned, that is what works for us. And with electric start, I can get hot water going without even getting out of bed in the morning.


We don't drain our 4 gallon heater tank when travelling, but a few lbs either way is a worry I won't consider, I can always empty the wine cellar or the hot tub to compensate.

[wessonjoe]

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i fail to understand the reasoning for all the animosity here.
the tankless weighs much, much less than a tank + heater.
the tankless uses less gas or electricity than the other.
if a person has decided that one type is better for the intended application, why must the ensuing dicussion be geared towards reorienting that persons ideals.
i appreciate the pros and cons presented for each system.
yet i am resolute that the tankless is better.
now shall we please get on to WHICH tankless is better and WHY ? ? ?
thank you for your understanding.


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[Bob Miller]

I think that the discussions are healthy as it often seems that the OPs in many of these threads start out completely oblivious to the real nature of tankless LP water heaters as might be used in FGRV's. (For this post I am setting aside the issue of electric tankless heaters as they are designed for a different purpose.)


In most discussions it seems that the small size and low price of certain tankless water heaters trumps considering the conventional RV water heater, and that real or imagined advantages, such as weight and fuel savings, are thrown up to cloud the disadvantages.


For those that really want to save fuel & weight, there are tankless water heaters in the $500 range, that can do the job, weigh less than a conventional water heater, allege to save fuel & water, and sound like a F16 in afterburner when fired off.


And there are the much less expensive tankless units that, are clearly labeled for outside or well ventilated space use only, are usually known to have variations in temperature based on water flow rates, and really have very few FGRV application users.


However, as conservation of resources seems to be a primary advantage, can anyone present any daily consumption and $$$ figures that show how much fuel is actually saved in a typical FGRV application?


Our hi-tech answer to LP conservation, using a conventional water heater, is simply that we turn it off when it's not needed. Two heating cycles a day seem to take care of our entire needs for hot water, adding daily showers for two might require one additional cycle. And, by planning ahead about 15 minutes, we can always have hot water when we need it.


One would suppose if a user was spending 18 or more hours a day inside an FGRV, had an unlimited source of water, as well as a way to dispose of it and/or was in a situation where replenishing LP fuel were all issues, that saving a modicum amount of LP could be an advantage.


But, based on comments about temperature variation due to flow rate changes, I would guess that more fuel & water may actually be used adjusting temp and waiting for temps to stabilize.


However, for the majority on this site that don't fit any/all of those criteria, I just don't think that the many disadvantages of those tankless water heaters being discussed come close to offsetting any advantages.


If anyone can present some documented proof otherwise it would be welcomed by many.


Keep in mind, that if someone starts a thread that others have opinions about, such as tankless water heaters, towing over mfgs. limits, maximum speed on SP tires, electrical systems and just about any other aspect of RVing, that they may get replies that don't agree with or are in conflict with others opinions and, heaven forbid, might actually drift off-topic. One can't expect to be able to control replies, or even the direction of discussion, it's the nature of this beast.....


As this site is primarily intended for those with Molded Fiberglass Travel Trailers, the replies to questions should be expected to reflect their needs and issues. For those with other agendas & interests, there are other sites that may be more understanding of different needs and beliefs.


And last; Disagreement & differing opinions do not equal animosity.

[Bob Miller]

So as to not get lost in my last extended post. The unit that WessonJoe expressed interest in, the L5, is really in the category of "Camp Showers" is called a Portable Hot Water System, and is really an entirely different topic.
I used a ZODI before installing a water heater in the Hunter and it works fine for that purpose.

[David Tilston]

I find myself coming around to Bob's point of view. If heating 5 gal, (how big is your heater Bob?) of water meets the required need in a few minuets, What is the advantage of an on demand unit?

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

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the tankless weighs much, much less than a tank + heater.

The tank on a standard heater is aluminum, it is not very heavy. I have handled a burst tank from such a heater, and I was surprised how light it was. Now, most people likely don't drain their hot water heater. so I will acknowledge this advantage. You may be correct if you had said that the tankless versions take up less space.

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

the tankless uses less gas or electricity than the other.

Not if the water heated in the cycle is used up before it gets cold. Adjusting the temperature of an on demand heater may use up more gas then the lost heat through the insulation of the tank. So, no advantage.

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

if a person has decided that one type is better for the intended application, why must the ensuing dicussion be geared towards reorienting that persons ideals.

If that person has made a decision based on false claims or flawed logic, then that persons ideals require reorienting. Disputing claims is what discussion is about.

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

i appreciate the pros and cons presented for each system.
yet i am resolute that the tankless is better.

Sounds like faith. Not what what we deal with here.

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

now shall we please get on to WHICH tankless is better and WHY ? ? ?
thank you for your understanding.

Thank you for your understanding.

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

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i fail to understand the reasoning for all the animosity here.

I gotta say, this post had the most animosity, by far, of all the posts on this thread. Hence my argumentative response.

[Bob Miller]

OMG, David and I are agreeing on yet something else, I must be mellowing.... LOL


BTW: My water heater is 4 gallons, one of two that I was able to snag from The Bus Depot a few years back for.....$200 each, electric start and all. The other one went into a since sold Scamp.

[David Tilston]

Yea, kinda freaking me out too.

[Raz]

From the Community Rules- Do not take every opportunity to express your disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, or fan flames. Voice your opinion respectfully and then let it go.


I guess these fellows won't be continuing. Most unfortunate. I would like to have heard what they had to say. Raz

[redbarron55]

For me it comes down to cost and space.
I plan to mount the demand water heater outside either on the tongue box or on the front of the trailer with the controls aimed inwards so that they can be controlled from the shower.
I have no problem with the 4 gallon, six gallon or other units other that I would like to save a little weight and money.
I may be wasting my money in this pursuit, but I think it has promise.
The water heater will be the only propane consumer on my trailer (as planned).
I would go with an electric heater like an undercounter tank or demand, but I may not be where I have a hookup and it takes a while to heat the water.
I have filled in the front window on my Scamp 16' (originally side bath) and I am moving the bath to the front for more headroom.
Since this is a complete rebuild I have a clean slate, but not unlimited funds.
I have a friend who uses one of the inexpensive units on his toy hauler when competing in cooking contests and he has had good results and recommended it to me.
I don't think it is safe to place one in the confines of a tight trailer hence the outside mounting. I don't know if it can be set and forget therefore the consideration of mounting where the controls can be used from inside.
I say to each his own. I am not particularly concerned with the efficiency tank vs tankless since the overall cost is relatively small.
I do want to keep the electrical demand below what a small inverter generator will supply.
4 gallons of water weight 32 lbs and the water heater may weigh another 30 (I don't know and I am just guessing here) for 60 lbs. (of course the demand heater weighs something too). Perhaps part of this weight will go towards the generator and a little fuel.

[wessonjoe]

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ok, let's ask this forward thinking fellow about a tankless . . .

Status Updates


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[Carol H]

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

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ok, let's ask this forward thinking fellow about a tankless . . .

Status Updates


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He actually posted to Amazon a far more detailed report as to the pros and cons of the tankless water he used.

[steve dunham]

I applaud anyone's effort to explore different methods to accomplish a goal
but one cannot escape the laws of physics . I believe that a propane tankless water heater may well be a satisfactory source of hot water for a trailer. Electric tankless water heaters on the other hand are not practical ,if one wants to have enough hot water for showering or other needs. The electrical service in our small trailers is at best 30 amps at 120 VAC which is insufficient to raise the temperature of cold water at the flow rate required for a shower . My only thought is " If a tankless water heater is satisfactory for the needs of a trailer ,is lighter, cheaper and more energy efficient than why are they not standard equipment from the trailer manufacturers. I was taught as a child "Don't ask a question if you don't want to hear the answer" To often on this forum we try to kill the messenger

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by wessonjoe

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ok, let's ask this forward thinking fellow about a tankless . . .

Status Updates


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He fell off a mountain! This is not a happy story.

[Bob Miller]

WOW.... He has a 218 gallon water tank (1700 lbs) in the ceiling and showers with a quart of water a minute. That doesn't sound at all like my grandchildren's grandfather's FGRV.... LOLOLOL

[mrswalzie]

At our way off the grid cabin, we used an on demand for the shower house and a six gallon rv water tank hung under the cabin for the kitchen. The two buildings were 75' apart (not my doing!) so using the same system was not feasible. The rv tank was put in because I wanted hot water in my kitchen to wash my hands. If we were to do this again I would use only the rv tank. Difference in propane usage was nil.