Tankless, Ventless Hot Water in Boler - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-09-2015, 12:23 AM   #1
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Name: Gerard
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Tankless, Ventless Hot Water in Boler

Hi All

I am undertaking a full gut reno of a Boler 1700. I am sourcing the new parts. I have completely changed the floorplan, removing the bathroom, adding stacked bunks and a queen size bed. The galley is now at the front of the trailer under the window and I would like a Hot water supply that can go under that sink that doesnt require a vent in the wall. DC power or LP is the only option.

Anyone have any advice for me? An EEMax EMT mini tank could be used with AC power but it is not a DC option and I want hot water when not hooked up.

Thanks.

Gerard
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:40 AM   #2
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A built in LP powered water heater without a vent isn't an option, it's an impossibility. What you are looking for is the holy grail of water heaters.
For that matter, there are no under sink LP waters even with a vent, that I know of, that are legal/safe for RV use.
As long as you have removed the bathroom, maybe a kettle is your best answer.....
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:11 AM   #3
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A kettle! Haha

Thanks for the response Bob. I guess I'm stuck with ac.
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:27 AM   #4
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Oh please Bob. You have been involved in discussions about such products:
Girard Tankless Water Heater GSWH-1

There are links to three different RV approved, on demand water heaters in that thread.

Have you forgotten, or are you that determined to make every one see the world through your eyes?

Given that 6 gal water heaters are almost common on kijiji, I would likely install one of those, if I ever install a water heater, but the Coleman portable heater still meets my needs.
http://www.amazon.ca/Coleman-Water--...n+water+heater
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:31 AM   #5
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What you could do is get an LP instant hot water heater and set it up outside your camper. They are very inexpensive, most are portable & designed to work outside, some ventable models work inside & they work very well & efficiently. I bought a Fastair model for under $100 off ebay and it is digital and the ignighter runs on 2 "D" batteries. The newest models have an ac powered vent fan to extract the LP exhaust. Mine just has the standard vent without the fan so you have to have a window open to let fresh air in for it to vent properly...

There are multiple options on how to install and plumb it, mine is ventable (some models are not) so I could install it inside but I am on the fence about venting it through the roof only because I can't find an acceptable vent that would look right on top of the boler (and not let water in when trailering)...I am considering an LP roof mount refrigerator vent though...

My other (more feasible) option is to setup the LP water heater outside on a stand, run a standard rv water hose line from the rv camp spigot to the water heater then another one from the water heater to my city water inlet, if I go this route I would like a solution to work with our water tank also which may be a little more complex to plump...
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
Oh please Bob. You have been involved in discussions about such products:
Girard Tankless Water Heater GSWH-1

There are links to three different RV approved, on demand water heaters in that thread.

Have you forgotten, or are you that determined to make every one see the world through your eyes?

Given that 6 gal water heaters are almost common on kijiji, I would likely install one of those, if I ever install a water heater, but the Coleman portable heater still meets my needs.
http://www.amazon.ca/Coleman-Water--...n+water+heater
The OP was looking for an under-sink water heater that ran on LP and didn't require an outside vent. That "other" discussion wasn't even suggested.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:44 PM   #7
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Yes, sorry, I missed the under counter, no vent, requirement.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:17 PM   #8
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I did a Google search and found these Propane water heaters on eBay. Could this work for you?
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/rv-tankless-water-heater
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolman45 View Post
I did a Google search and found these Propane water heaters on eBay. Could this work for you?
RV Tankless Water Heater | eBay
These are the types I was referring to in my post above
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:34 AM   #10
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i have seen these units (thanks) but they all state OUTDOOR use only. So am I to treat the interior of the trailer as outdoor?!?

These trailers came with propane open flame stoves so I am not sure how a HWT burning LP is any different from an air quality perspective. It seems the risk of fire is more the issue but an on demand unit only runs to put HW into a sink so not likely to run often.

THoughts?
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:17 AM   #11
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"OUTDOOR USE ONLY" are not code words for "Ok to use inside an RV". If there is still some confusion, "Outdoor use only" really means "Outdoor use only".


There are a few small units that are allegedly approved (by whom?) for use inside a RV and they are all about 2-3 times the price of the cheapy ones and require an outside vent. A tankless water heater uses a tremendous amount of LP when running, and that emits not only a substantial amount of heat but a lot of Carbon Monoxide, both of which are unhealthy for children and other living things. Placed inside a cabinet it may use up the available O2 so quickly that it will shut down.


If you want to leave your cook top on with the windows & vents all closed while cooking, you will quickly get a hint about what can happen.


There is no shortage of regular RV water heaters out there. I have installed three of them in 13' RV's (including two "Eggs") myself in the past several years.


But not to worry, there are a number of self-described engineers out there that are apparently smarter that the real engineers that design these things..... and they will tell you how to get around these limitations. (Sarcasm ? YEP) More to come...


Here is a link to one of the Marey Tankless water heaters being sold online as being RV suitable. See the included links for documentation
http://www.homedepot.com/p/MAREY-2-0...10LP/203831044


Yet there is no mention whatsoever of that capability in the installation instructions or any mention of certification for portable use. The MFG, in the warranty, cautions the buyer to determine of the unit is legal for their application.


They also tell (warn) buyers that if they are buying from "ecommerce" sellers to call them and not the seller if you need support. Sorta gives one a warning about who is selling them and any claims they may be making.
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:41 AM   #12
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Obviously it can be done outside the trailer.
This one is mounted in a Stainless Steel enclosure with a Lexan front cover.
I have finally gotten the system online with the LP tank and tested it with the shower (after I finally got it plumbed and the drains hooked up.)
The trick is to set the temp for the setting you want to use without tempering with cold water. This is no problem since there is unlimited hot water to use!
There is a winter/summer switch which I use to switch from warm for hand washing and showers and on the winter setting for hotter water for washing dishes etc.
There is more room on my front A frame since I extended the frame by a foot or so to reduce the tongue load and increase the stability of the rig.
Also up there is the condenser for the mini-split heat pump.
I think that the water heater could be installed like I did on the front A frame or the rear bumper. I put mine on the front since all of the consumption is there so shorter runs for the hot water.
By the way I did not think this one up a coworker came up with this idea for his barbecue trailer. It works and you have plenty of hot water of any temp you want. The "problem" is if you try to setup a hotter temp and then temper the output with cold the flow through the heater will probably be too low to operate the flow switch inside and it will quit heating.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:45 AM   #13
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redbarron55 your setup is nice that is very similar as to what I am working on, only I was going to set mine up on a stand near the city/tank fill water connection and run a short hose from the water spout to it then from it to the city water connection, but seeing yours I might put mine there and permanently plumb it so I can use it with tank water also.

As for Bob's comments he is half right. Most of these instant water heaters are designed for outside use only and can be bought as cheap as $60, I however, did my research and paid additional money for the Fastair model that was designed & advertised for indoor use. Since I bought mine several newer models have come out that are forced air ventilated (meaning with an internal fan using 110v ac). If I had not already purchased mine I would get the forced air type. CampingWorld sells several models for indoor use and here is the link Bob Miller:

EccoTemp FVI12-LP 3.4 GPM LP Indoor Forced Vent Tankless Water Heater - Eccotemp FVI12-LP - Water Heaters - Camping World

Now that it is confirmed you can use these certain models indoors (properly installed) it should be noted however than none of them that I have seen have yet to be DOT approved, meaning that they are not safe to travel with the propane hooked up. This is not a problem for me as I disconnect my propane line from the tank when trailering so it is not an issue. But using it at the campground is just fine. I can see where trailer manufactures might not be able to install them into a new trailer until they get DOT approval, but I see no reason why the end user can't put one in if they choose to do so, so long as it is the indoor type and it installed correctly.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:12 AM   #14
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I think that Camping World, in an effort to fill an heretofore unknown need, left off two words from their warning about the water heater mentioned:
"NOT for RV use due to item NOT being DOT approved and must be disconnected while vehicle is in motion." WINK-WINK.

Makes it kinda difficult to run the LP refrigerator while underway.


AND... Can't say that I agree that it's a good idea to put a water heater right next to the vent and connections hose on an LP tank.
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