Will new Scamp Entry door Hinges fit on an 1981 13' Boler?

[idiotsniff]

Hello,

I bought an 81 boler off an older fella in my area. its missing the original hinges but otherwise the trailer is in excellent condition.

anyways, the original owner must have had issues with the original hinge balls wearing out and didn't know they could be replaced? not to sure. but he didn't have the originals anymore they threw them out apparently. so what they did was weld up some inside door hinges to plates that where at the rough angles needed to fit the boler. they are awful and don't work to well. the door doesn't fit perfect due to this and its doesn't look right either. haha

I figured i'd buy a pair of Scamp hinges and was sure they'd fit because I've seen these on other bolers, but I was speaking to Paul Neumeister today and he said they won't work. they aren't at the right angles and would bind on me.

So i'm wondering if anyone else has done this? do they need modding? or will they just work without issue?

I need a pair before the camping season and would like to know if i'm going to have issues before i go and order a pair.

if you have any idea or can give me some input i'd really appreciate it.

If someone has a pair of used Boler hinges and wants to sell please let me know also. i'll buy them.

thanks for your time,


Joel Brown

[Greg H]

Well that seems to be the only option and I was under the impression that the Scamp was molded from Boler molds anyway. That said I have my original 1972 hinges but they do need to be rebuilt.

[idiotsniff]

hi Greg,

well the original Scamps were the same as the Bolers, but i guess there was a fire at some point in time, I think it was in the 90's sometime (but don't quote me) anyways, they had to redo their molds, so all the angles have changed, they are taller and look a bit different overall compared to the original scamps/bolers.

so that is why these hinges are in question.

would you happen to want sell your old hinges Greg??? pm me with price. i'd be happy to buy them.

thanks,


Joel

[Donna D.]

Joel, the 13 foot Scamp is taller after the fire (January 2006). Now it's the same as the 16 footer. But, Scamp has always sold just one kind of hinge and they fit both the 13 footer and the 16 footer (not two different kinds). Scamp has been willing to sell exterior entry doors to Boler owners (with a caveat), so I don't know why the hinges wouldn't fit too with some fillin'/drillin' and slightly different placement. Still something to consider if you can't find Boler hinges.

My friend Sandy says to check Bolerama for the number of people who've used Scamp hinges on their Bolers, if you're still in doubt.

[psyber_guy]

I put Scamp hinges on my 73 Boler and the top hinge has to come down about 3/4 of an inch and the bottom hinge has to go up about 2 inches or the door will not clear the belly band when the door is opened cause the Scamp hinges are shorter.
Craig

[Sheryl]

I put the Scamp hinges on my 72 Boler--they work great. I don't know about placement as my old door had several sets of holes from the PO's apparent past attempts at various hinges. When I got the Boler, it had wide gate hinges on it which pried on the door when opening it. The distance in from the edge is a bit different, I believe--the guy from Scamp was very helpful on the phone. I put the hinges on the trailer first, then held the door in place to line up.

[idiotsniff]

Hi Craig and Sheryl,

thank you both for the replys, wondering if you two could maybe measure the hinge placement for me sometime?

looking for a measurement from the top of the belly band to the center of the bottom bolt on the top hinge(body side) and a measurement from the top of the belly band to the center of the top bold on the bottom hinge (body side)

if you arent able to do that no rush, just if you can or have time. I would really appreciate it.

Craig, did you put the hinges in where the old ones were? or did you put them in different locations to start with? just wondering because you say they need to be moved.

Sheryl, I've had been having issues having scamp call me back. I've called 3x now and left msgs and they don't call back. ask for parts and no calls back always busy. I've heard their service is pretty lacking? have to see how it goes when i get in touch with them. but not good so far.

thanks again for the replys.


Joel Brown

[Sheryl]

I will get those measurements to you tomorrow--no problem as my Boler is in the garage (snug as a bug!) I studied a lot of photos to get close, and the Scamp guy said to try to stay on the flattest part of the door. Maybe I just lucked out talking to him! Anyway, yes, I'll get back with the measurements.

[Lizbeth]

Here is a picture comparing the two hinges. They are in the same location of the old hinges. The shims are pieces of fiberglass that are angle cut to bring the hinges into as more level plane. I can't find any pictures of them.

[Sheryl]

I remember, too, that I was concerned when I received my hinges as they are both the same. (I thought I had read somewhere that they were different, numbered 1 and 2.) I asked "the Scamp guy" that question, as well, but he said the two hinges are the same, and I have had no issues with mine. My door will open all the way without binding and without hitting the bellyband as it opens.

[Lizbeth]

I don't know what is going on I am having trouble with the pictures...

[Lizbeth]

Here they are during the install.

[idiotsniff]

Sheryl, ya, really there should be hinge 1 and hinge 2, i just figured that would be the case? now that really bothers me its not... because if they are just 90 degrees to the body, then one hinge will angle up and the other hinge will angle down depending if its top or bottom hinge. now thats a really stupid design if you ask me.

now i was thinking. since the hinges pivot on the brass ball. if you drilled out the hole that the bolt goes threw on the top side of the hinge, don't drill it to big but enough to clear the off angles when the door is opened and closed it should stop this bending bolt problem ppl are having after they have installed and opened/closed the door a few times. i really think that would fix that problem, just depends on how big that hold can be without the bolt head going threw it but don't think that can happen anyways. i think i may just buy two sets and try to mod one set of hinges and see what options i've got before i go ahead and install them. I don't want to mess up one set hen have to pay their high shipping fees to get a second set.

thanks for that info tho. i'm going to call them again tomorrow and see if i can talk to parts.. havent been able to get someone yet.

thanks again,


Joel

[idiotsniff]

hi Liz,

thanks for the pictures. really appreciate it. you don't happen to have a picture that is taken when you view the body down the side from front to back off hand eh? so you can see how the hinge angles up or down depending on the hing you are taking pictures of..

and if its not asking to much can you measure your hinges also? looks like you redid your hinges in the factory locations? would like to get measurements from a few ppl to see what works.

thanks again for everything,


Joel

[Lizbeth]

I can't locate anymore pictures of the hinge install, it was 7 years and three computers ago. The trailer is in storage right now so the weekend would be the soonest I might be able to get pictures. The hinges are in the original locations and the shims just kick the bottom of the bottom hinge out and the top of the top hinge out to bring the pins into more of a straight line. They aren't completely straight but work well.

[idiotsniff]

Liz, not to worry, don't go out of your way to get pictures. was just wanting to see how much shim material you used and to see what kinda angle they are sitting at? but don't go out of your way to do that for me, its really not necessary at all. thought you might have it on location or even have more pictures on hand. was just looking for more close up shots of all angles.

I appreciate what you were able to post. can you tell me if you filled in the original holes? i see you had that one shot thre and the scamps were installed but i could see the original holes still? did you just fill them and leave them? or did you fill them and repaint the whole trailer?

also, do you have your old original hinges now? because id buy them from you? or at least consider it if you have pictures?

thanks,


Joel

[Harvey]

Been watching this thread with interest for a couple of days. My '84 Scamp 13 had the original(?) door hinges when I bought it last winter but the pins were a 'cobbled-up' mess. Some PO had replaced the brass ball with a 'rounded' type nut & a 5/16 bolt with no 'flex spring'. I ordered a new hinge repair kit from Scamp & installed it some months ago. The 'kit' came with a 1/4" bolt, the brass ball, a spring & 'ny-lok' type nut for each bolt. The ball is drilled for the 1/4" bolt but my hinges have 5/16 vertical holes for the pin. Can someone tell me if the hinges should have 1/4" holes or have they been 'drilled out'? I do know that since I replaced the pins the door opens easier & further back than before (still 'hits' the belly band just before fully open) but I'd think that should be a function of the ball & the 'flex' spring rather than a 'shifting' pin?? One thing, when the ny-lok nuts that came with the kit are tightened so that the 'locking' part of the nut is engaged, there is little to no flex left in the spring. I've considered buying some stainless steel 5/16" bolts to replace the 1/4" pins, drill out the balls to accept the 5/16" bolts, & make sure the bolts are long enough that the springs flex correctly when the door is opened fully.

To answer some of Joel's (idiotsniff) question, my hinges appear to be identical (no 1 & 2) but I haven't taken 'em off to check for numbers on reverse side. The bottom hinge is mounted at a slightly 'up' angle (both pieces not square to the door) while the base piece (body side) of upper hinge appears to be at a slightly less 'up' angle?? Pretty sure this isn't just camera angle as It is quite obvious when I look at them closely. Apparently there has been some stress at the lower hinge as there is some 'crazing' in the FG around the door piece. I also intend to replace the rusted attaching bolts with some stainless hardware. I'm not sure if there will be significant 'galvanic' action with 3 different metals (aluminum, brass, & stainless) but the zinc bolts originally used have rusted badly over the years so I doubt that stainless will do any worse.

Just in case Sheryl doesn't get to it (or the dimensions are different), on my '84 Scamp 13, the center of the lower bolt in the upper hinge is 14.5" above the top of the belly band, & the center of the top bolt in the bottom hinge is 11" from lower side of the belly band.

Here are a few pix of the hinge arrangement on my Scamp -





Lower hinge, note the 'upward' mounting angle toward the door


Upper hinge, note there is little 'flex space' left in the spring


Upper hinge with door open

[Lizbeth]

Originally Posted by idiotsniff

I appreciate what you were able to post. can you tell me if you filled in the original holes? i see you had that one shot thre and the scamps were installed but i could see the original holes still? did you just fill them and leave them? or did you fill them and repaint the whole trailer?

also, do you have your old original hinges now? because id buy them from you? or at least consider it if you have pictures?

I filled in all the original holes with a mix of epoxy and chopped fiberglass, it was what I had on hand. Nope the trailer has not been painted, it's a patched up mess. I don't think I still have the old hinges, they were in really bad shape with no balls and toilet bolts dropped through them to keep the door from falling off.

I think the widest part of the shim is about 3/8th of an inch.

[idiotsniff]

wow Liz,

3/8 of an inch is a lot of shim. I ask about your originals because you can buy repair kits to fix the original hinges. new balls, bolts, a spring and a nut. and that would care of the missing items you speak of.

the PO of boler did a real hatchet job on our boler too. and because of that we have to paint ours.. real bummer. but i knew that buying it. we got a steal of a deal on our boler. and the rest of it in in excellent condition, so I really can't complain. just wish these scamp hinges worked a little better. didn't get a chance to call scamp today. but will have to try tomorrow.

if you ever come across them and don't want them, would you keep me in mind? I'd buy them from you.

thanks again for all the help.


Joel

[Sheryl]

I measured from the belly band to the center bolt--top hinge is 14; bottom is 8. Remember, though, that I had to wing it as I couldn't tell where the original hinges were. (My door had been abused pretty badly!! Surprisingly, though, my curve isn't tooooo bad!) I did have to redrill my top hinge holes on the door side as I initially put them too close and the door couldn't seat into place properly. By that time I had been fiberglassing enough covering the old patches that it didn't even bother me! I believe I drilled and loosely bolted the center bolt on the body first. Then I had help holding the door in place to determine where the door side of the hinge fastened, and to get the angle right on the body side of the hinge. It was awkward, but not difficult. Well, except for those extra holes

I do know for sure that both hinges are the same--I believe that was a change in recent years as I know I read that they were numbered 1 and 2. As I said, the Scamp guy assured me they were now the same, and the new hinges seem to work fine. I'm not seeing any binding, the door opens nicely. Seems to me the key is to not get the hinges too far apart so that you're fighting the curve.