Does your camp food resemble your normal home fare?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by ZachO

I can't tell if he's trying to get a cut in at people who avoid fast food, assuming that they therefore must eat only "organic", and that they wrongfully believe that because they're eating organic there's nothing bad that can grow on it, and that they feel superior to everyone...Or if the statement is made to be taken at face value and he really believes that...Or if it was just a good natured joke.

Bad things can grow on anything organic (organic meant to mean "living matter"). Whether or not there are a bunch of pesticides also on there is another matter. That's where "organic" (meant in the no pesticides/chemicals way) is really nice. Though that label unfortunately doesn't mean what most of think or would like to believe it does.

I just do my best to eat as "un-processed" as possible. Food is a real thing, and a real good thing. What's on most of the shelves in the grocery store and served at most chain restaurants is an unfortunate human bastardization of what was once real food.

I'll stick as close as I can to unmodified veggies, fruits and grains, and eat as much wild game as I can instead of animals bred and raised covered in their own filth, shipped off jam packed into a truck to a slaughterhouse that's moving animals through so quickly that they can't keep the feces off the meat, and therefore irradiate the meat to sterilize it because they know they can't produce at the scale they want to, and still keep things clean otherwise.

YUM!

Which is not to say I'm above eating that type of food and meat. I just do my best to avoid it, and try to find something better first.

All of the above .!!! I choose not to worship at the "Organic Church of the Vegan ".

[ZachO]

Ah, so you have a chip on your shoulder. I can understand, as there are some pretty extreme people on that end of the spectrum. It's funny because I don't see much in this thread about "oh, I only eat organic. So I'm awesome". You're simply assuming that it's what people are implying when they talk about eating healthy.

For myself, I don't let narrow minded people on either side of the spectrum influence my food decisions or how I treat people. And I'm not calling you narrow minded. I don't know you nearly well enough. I'm talking about the voices you hear on different sides of these issues.

I have as little tolerance for militant vegans as you, is my guess. But I don't let them define food for me. Food is food, completely separate from who chooses to associate themselves with it.

I choose food based on what I believe to be healthy, which is food with the least amount of human processing I can find.

Unfortunately people are understandably pretty confused about food these days. Would you believe that not many decades ago, all food was organic? All animals were cage free, free range? It's too bad these things have been turned into buzz words with political meaning. It's all really just a way of moving away from the industrialization of food that most of us grew up with, without stopping to realize how very recently we did this to our food.

When you divorce your associations of hippies and food snobs from the organic movement, you can see things in less clouded fashion. The industrialization of food is a very recent thing. "Organic" food is what we all ate not long ago.

The fact that chemical fertilizers and pesticides were made to solve a real problem and that in some ways are a legitimate response to feeding large populations is not lost on me.

But when you start getting into morals, science and the politics of food, things get really complicated really quick. When you base your choices of what to eat on biases against certain groups you find annoying, you're going down a strange path.

The best thing I've found to cut through all the BS on both sides, is to make personal choices I feel are healthy for me. For me, that means choosing wild game over factory raised and slaughtered meat, eating fresh veggies whenever possible, eating mostly whole grains rather than processed grains, and most importantly, not eating too much.

That really makes things pretty simple, and I don't have to worry about what everyone else is doing, whether I like them or not. I do what I do. I eat factory meat, I eat processed foods. But I limit them as much as possible. I choose fresh unprocessed food for the bulk of what I eat.

I've found pragmatists on both sides. Environmentalist hippies working on cattle ranches. 4th generation Montana ranchers switching to grass fed, organic beef. Letting the loudest, most extreme voices on either side define a product or idea is going to give a skewed vision of reality.

[ZachO]

And after writing all that...let's say we either start a new thread if we're going to keep this discussion going, to take it to PM. I don't want to send a nice topic on RV food down a long argumentative path, even though I seem to be doing a pretty good job of it!

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by ZachO

Ah, so you have a chip on your shoulder.

It's not necessary to attack the person to explain your position, but if you are going to attack, could you at least say who you are attacking?

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

It's not necessary to attack the person to explain your position, but if you are going to attack, could you at least say who you are attacking?

From my perspective, an accusation of "worship[ping] at the 'Organic Church of the Vegan' " is at least as provocative as an accusation of having "a chip on your shoulder" (even if the chip is non-GMO, organic, and trans fat-free).

Myself, I find food fights very entertaining, even when they're virtual.

I believe it's "whom you are attacking."

[Glenn Baglo]

I gave up on "who" / "whom" a long time ago.
If college professors can use "less" instead of, correctly, "few", then I quit.

[neparker]

Thank goodness, someone else hears those "less/few" errors!!! 8^>


I try to stay calm....

-- Anne

[ZachO]

Yeah that was questionable, I'll admit. It was meant for Steve. Only meaning that his dislike for people who push the "organic" lifestyle is causing him to condemn a good food. A food which has nothing to do with any person, and can't be held responsible for people who associate themselves with it.

Sorry Steve, whether that really crossed any line or not, it was a bad way to start the post.

[Glenn Baglo]

Better living through chemistry.

Many years ago Omni magazine published a gallery of stunning photographs of raw foods, like a pepper, an egg, etc.
And, alongside, they published the chemical names of the components they were made of.
Organic foods are also made of chemicals, like everything else on or of this earth.

[ZachO]

Yeah it's part of what I was getting at with the "organic label" not meaning what we'd like it to. Chemical fertilizers are made from, well...chemicals. My brother is a chemical engineer. He's mentioned that it's currently OK for an "organic" farmer to use a fertilizer/pesticide/herbicide made from exactly the same chemicals as a synthetic version which would not be allowed under the organic label, so long as the chemicals are derived from "natural" sources. That doesn't mean every organic farmer chooses to use those chemicals, but they can.

So one is made completely in a lab, and not ok for "organic" labeling. The other is made in a lab by extracting the same chemicals from things they naturally occur in, and is considered "organic". What's the difference, on a chemical level?

Honestly you could make a valid argument on either side, in my opinion. That the source you extracted the chemical from does matter. Or that on a molecular level, it's all the same. We humans are pretty smart, and we've figured out some pretty impressive stuff, but what we don't know will always far outweigh what we do know.

So...I make my personal choices. I firmly believe that in my lifetime, at least, we will not have absolute answers to some of these basic questions. So I go with: the most un-adulterated food I can find. It sure seems like a safe bet to me.

[David Tilston]

Our current definition of organic seems strange to me. High School organic chemistry was all about methane, propane, butane..... amines, alcohol, ..... It had nothing to do with how you fed your animals.

[ZachO]

Yeah words take on new meanings through time. It's odd when it happens during your lifetime.

While I'm in something of an apology mode, let me also say that by "militant vegans" I don't mean than all vegans are "militant". I have friends who are or have been vegan. But I was assuming, just like I accused Steve of doing, that what he was getting at with his statements was his dislike for the "preachy" people in the natural food movement.


Yes at some point "correct" grammar isn't correct if people look at you weird when you say it. The 'not ending a sentence with a preposition' is one of those. If you try to do this in regular speech, it'll sound odd to you and everyone around you. Saying "whom" in the wrong context (wrong crowd) can make you sound like you have a superiority complex. Etc...

Anyone else read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"? That book, from what I remember, made good, common sense real-world grammar arguments. Mostly for written speech.

[Dick & Joanne]

We just take everything out of the refrigerator/freezer until the fiver is full. Same thing for the cupboards. Then replace as we travel.

[TheWanderers]

Originally Posted by Dick & Joanne

We just take everything out of the refrigerator/freezer until the fiver is full. Same thing for the cupboards. Then replace as we travel.

D/J: this idea seems to be the most reasonable and make the most sense. Natural extension of what you already eat and rotation of home stores to eliminate duplicates of expiration dates. I like it.

We had our first trip this last weekend and from now on I'm using this concept of shopping first at home and then only buying what's missing or needed to round out the road food and replace upon return. Thanx for your sage advice.

[Jane P.]

Interesting thread. I travel with my labs. All my trips involve dog training or AKC FIELS TRIALS/Hunt Tests. Most of my trips involve dry camping.

What that means is I am gone from early morning to after sunset. If I have to drive to the training/test site, I usually eat breakfast in my car on route.

Before I even begin cooking dinner, I need to "air" and feed my dogs. They do sleep in the trailer, so I need to towel them off so they won't dirty the trailer. Then I need to turn on the gas water heater, get out of my muddy clothes. So, I don't have the time to cook anything from scratch - except fresh salad.

1. I do cook differently on the road.

• I freeze homemade soup & stews (in zip lock bags) prior to leaving
• I purchase pre-cooked rice & lentils; and frozen veggies
• I combine cottage cheese, apple sauce & Fiber 1 cereal for lunch
• I purchase Healthy Choice frozen dinners when on the road
• I eat dinner at restaurants several times a week
• I prepare instant oatmeal, yogurt & nuts for breakfast.
• Breakfast & lunch is eaten on the road. I use 16 oz Thermos food jars. If I eat in the trailer, I prepare egg white omelette (travels better than raw eggs)

2. I use my microwave nightly. I have to recharge my batteries anyway and microwave dinner while the generator is running

3. In addition to bottled water & lunch, I pack string cheese, fruit and nuts for snacks during the day

4. Because the small cabin concentrates cooking smells, I avoid strong smelling meals (i.e. Pasta, garlic)

5. Morning coffee (So vital) is brewed via Coleman Camp Coffee Maker. I pack freshly ground beans from Trader Joe's. I also bring a French Press (with matching beans) as backup.

6. I try to minimize cooking in vassals & utensils that require cleaning. Adequate fresh water is a big problem when dry camping.

7. I have never used my oven.

8. I have not yet used my Coleman propane camp stove. But I do pack a cast iron grill should I want to BBQ something on it.

9. If I am lucky to camp or train near a Trader Joe's, I will shop there. Otherwise I'll shop inexpensive food marts.

Now, I appreciate that a heated discussion has taken place surrounding vegetarianism and organic produce. I am at an age when I have to pay attention to cholesterol and blood pressure. Which means I eat less red meat (which I love), Fat & salt. And so My husband & I are eating more plant based foods & fish. On the road, fish is saved for restaurants.

I have no moral objections to meat - my dogs & I participate in a blood sport. But I began reducing my consumption of meat several years ago. To me, it's a health issue. And, to tell the truth, eating low fat meats & veggie based meals gives me a lot more energy. It also helps me control my weight.

At home, we cook everything - including fresh veggie sides - from scratch.

I precook & freeze most these meals for winter camping.

Regarding organic, there is good reason to be weary of pesticides. I wish I could trust that food labeled as organic is truly not exposed to pesticides. But we are at the mercy of the growers honesty. If I was sure that all organic products are labeled correctly, I would spend the extra bucks for these products.

Just saying

[Jane P.]

Originally Posted by Cathi

Ian, that pizza oven looks great. I am wondering how much the good results have to do with the stone and how much with the lid. One could take a stone and use alone and see how well that works. I expect some have done that.

So cool!

[floyd]

I only eat organic foods, the inorganic ones are hard on the digestion.(and often on the teeth as well!)

I do occasionally get a chip on my shoulder as well, but only when I try to dump the whole bag in my mouth at once! (easy enough to pick it off and eat it after the bag is empty though)

To my Vegan friends I say... live long and prosper.


Or are they the ones who eat cold tubes of RTV?...
Sorta like inorganic cheese in a can. Great on little squares of Fel-Pro

[k0wtz]

Jane I retired wifey retired this means especially when we camp all cooking and cleanup is kept to a minimum. I usually cook breakfast we eat later in the afternoon usually at a restaurant for our final meal.


all big pots and pans left home, we use an old perk for coffee and that is it. no fancy china no silverware all disposables for the time we are camping!


bob

[Alex Adams]

Originally Posted by Jane P.

Regarding organic, there is good reason to be weary of pesticides. I wish I could trust that food labeled as organic is truly not exposed to pesticides. But we are at the mercy of the growers honesty. If I was sure that all organic products are labeled correctly, I would spend the extra bucks for these products.

I buy organic because most of the time it has more and better flavor than the regular stuff. Try buying regular celery and organic and do a taste test. Pretty much the only time the regular tastes about the same is when it is locally grown and farm fresh.

The other one is chicken. Buy a regular brand and compare it to the free range organic. I find the free range organic tastes like chicken from when I was a kid. The regular stuff tastes rancid.

Oh and don't get me started on chicken livers. Liver should not be a yellowish green color!

[Jane P.]

Originally Posted by Alex Adams

I buy organic because most of the time it has more and better flavor than the regular stuff. Try buying regular celery and organic and do a taste test. Pretty much the only time the regular tastes about the same is when it is locally grown and farm fresh.

The other one is chicken. Buy a regular brand and compare it to the free range organic. I find the free range organic tastes like chicken from when I was a kid. The regular stuff tastes rancid.

Oh and don't get me started on chicken livers. Liver should not be a yellowish green color!

Good idea Alex, I will add organic veggies & chicken to our shopping list & conduct taste tests with my husband.