Do we really need 4WD??

[David B.]

Do we really need 4WD??
I do...

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

Climbed the road up to Apex to check it out for future skiing possibilities. In those kinds of roads the 4 wheel drive was fun. My sis has a Hummer H2 but have never driven it in the snow.

That road to Apex has been the sight of a few pick-up truck driver rescues by my little Subaru We run a small CanAm downhill race for prospect national members every February on that mountain. They stop plowing that road at about 5 pm each day - as you have been on it I am sure you have no problem imagining what a fun ride it can be at 3AM during a big snow dump. As we say in the alpine world Giddy Up! Going up with the Subaru isnt bad ... but admit the going down can get my heart beat up a little bit

Re the Hummer.... hummm if the fact my neighbour who has one cant even get it up the steep little side road by my house is any indication of its ability not sure I would put to much down on a bet on it..... but then again it may be the driver.

[MC1]

Carol, ever ski Big White? My sis had a time share condo there at the Inn. Drove in there in late September. Not much of a climb. I think it starts at Kelowna and ends 80klm's later at Big White.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

Carol, ever ski Big White? My sis had a time share condo there at the Inn. Drove in there in late September. Not much of a climb. I think it starts at Kelowna and ends 80klm's later at Big White.

Yes the Big White Out as we call it! My fav little mountain. My BF has had a townhouse sloop side there for about 15 years. I mostly go there for free skiing as they dont hold any major races. Although on my last visit I get roped into a putting in a day at the races with their kids program as they where short parents with an Official status. The road although a long one and more often than not covered in snow is pretty well kept/plowed as its a bigger resort than Apex. There is one windy steep section near the top that has been known to create a big log jam of cars though - usually someone with summer/all season tires or no driving in snow experience.

[Mike Magee]

Both of my current vehicles are AWD. I wouldn't want to be without it, either.

When there's ice, or snow packed down to become as slippery as ice (think parking lots), 2WD can have a hard time getting any grip. Well, a set of Blizzaks help with that, but here in Oklahoma who wants to spend for winter tires when winter is so brief? And then when we do get the rare snowstorm, 2WD is all but useless. They don't have much snow removal equipment around here. The last time we had a blizzard (12", followed 3-4 days later by another 8" or so), for days the neighbors were out there shoveling and spinning and shoveling and spinning, whereas with AWD I simply started up, hit the gas and went right on out past them. I pulled several people out of trouble during that time with my AWD and a tow strap. That storm was so bad, for days the grocery stores had no milk or (especially) eggs because the (2WD) delivery trucks couldn't make it... I know so, because my DW sent me out every single day to check for eggs!

[Ice-breaker]

Even though the OP asked about 4wd, a lot of the discussion here has been about AWD, which can be quite different. For example, my wife's Equinox is AWD. Her car will normally operate in 2wd. When the computer senses that there is a lack of traction on one or more wheels, the car will automatically shift into AWD. In her car, the driver has no control over whether the car operates in 2wd or AWD. Now my truck (FJ) is a true 4wd vehicle. Normal operation is in 2wd, but with a shift to the transfer case, the transmission can be switched to either a high or low range 4wd. I also have a switch that will engage a rear differential lock when even greater traction is required. The operation of these two (AWD and 4wd) systems is substantially different. I personally like having the choice of when my vehicle uses 4wd and prefer driving my truck in poor traction situations, although my wife's AWD system works quite well.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Ice-breaker

Even though the OP asked about 4wd, a lot of the discussion here has been about AWD, which can be quite different.

Actually all the OP asked was: "Do we really need 4WD??" apparently a few of us think not

Yes AWD and and 4WD can be very different depending greatly on what AWD vehicle you are talking about. Some are true full time AWD and others are only on demand on some wheels - such as what you described your wifes vehicle or variances of that.

[Ice-breaker]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Actually all the OP asked was: "Do we really need 4WD??" apparently a few of us think not

Of course it is not for all, but I love having 4x4.

[Glenn Baglo]

I have RAV4 with 4WD, as in can lock all four wheels, but when it snows, I generally choose not to drive.
It's not just me that I have to worry about, it's all the other people on all-season tires, and that the insurance company is likely to assign blame 50 / 50. And, then there is loss of use while the vehicle is being repaired.

Before I retired, I'd take the front wheel drive company car if I had to drive in the snow.

[Ice-breaker]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I have RAV4 with 4WD, as in can lock all four wheels, but when it snows, I generally choose not to drive.
It's not just me that I have to worry about, it's all the other people on all-season tires, and that the insurance company is likely to assign blame 50 / 50. And, then there is loss of use while the vehicle is being repaired.

Before I retired, I'd take the front wheel drive company car if I had to drive in the snow.

One of my favorite former cars was an old 5 speed manual transmission Honda civic that I had many years ago. With snow tires on it, I could drive through drifts as high as the hood without getting stuck. However, front wheel drive does kind of suck on loose gravel roads, especially on curves.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Ice-breaker

However, front wheel drive does kind of suck on loose gravel roads, especially on curves.

Are you kidding? That's where front wheel drive shines. Crank the steering wheel to the right, apply the hand brake to briefly stop the rear wheels which will throw the rear of the car to the left, all the while stomping on the gas peddle. The front wheels will pull the car out of the drift to the left an through the corner.

You can use the same technique to do a 180 degree turn on a one lane gravel road. Just tell your passenger what you intend to do.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ice-breaker

Of course it is not for all, but I love having 4x4.

Me too. Blasting through 2 feet of snow with my F250 is a blast.

Originally Posted by Ice-breaker

However, front wheel drive does kind of suck on loose gravel roads, especially on curves.

I am with you on this too Dave. I grew up driving gravel roads, and rear-wheel drive wins hands down. Way better steering control under power, and when young, I learned to master the four wheel drift around corners, fully under control. Learned the same techniques with dirt bikes and snowmobiles too. I love freaking my wife out drifting corners at full speed.

For traction, front wheel drive can't be beat, with all the weight over the drive wheels. In the snow it performs much better. My F250 in the snow without 4WD really sucks a lot of the time.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

You can use the same technique to do a 180 degree turn on a one lane gravel road. Just tell your passenger what you intend to do.

Frank Cannon used rear wheel drive...... just sayin'.

[Glenn Baglo]

I was on a police high speed chase course, driving a clapped out Ford and when the rear end started to come around on me, I stomped on the gas and lost it. The instructor reprimanded me. I explained that I drive a front wheel drive Fiat 128 Sport Coupe and that stomping on the gas was the only solution in that car.
So, he took my Fiat out on the course, spun out and ended up in the grass field.
Different strokes for different folks.
Four wheel drive Ford Explorer rental I had to drive on washboard was my worst driving experience. It wanted to go sideways more than forward in the corners.

[Glenn Baglo]

BTW. The instructor told me that ( in the rear wheel drive Ford ), when the rear started to come around, I should stab the brake and then rapidly hit the accelerator. I've not actually ever tried that since I don't choose to drive a clapped out Ford sedan with bald tires.

Friend of mine in his Fiat 124 Spyder and I in my Fiat 128 Sport Coupe went back out to the course and played the rabbit a week later. When the lights and sirens are going, it does raise your adrenaline level.

[Darrell in Al]

That reminded me of when I was doing some driver training on skidpad... instructor operated gas and brakes which was gas pedal to the floor then he would grab streering wheel and slam on brakes.
I done the drifting on good old country gravel roads. I'm not in to drifting in my jeeps, one has about eight inches of lift and front locker limited slip (traclock) rear. Point and go in a lot of road conditions. Ice and hill 2wd, AWD, 4WD don't matter. I've seen 13 ton, 36 ton and 50 + ton tracked vehicles slid on ice even. (M113, Bradleys and tanks) I've hit black ice driving a M998 Humvee on Autoban in Germany slid down road sideways that was fun. I'm not as experienced of a driver as some here. But snowy roads AWD car maybe. . I'll just stick to 4wd.


.

[Jared J]

I'll take my awd subaru over any 4wd I've ever driven when it comes to ice, and I'm a North Dakota farmboy originally.

It does pretty damn well in snow, too. I drove off the edge of my driveway and high centered it, plus had it buried in snow. I thought it was stuck, the pickup was stuck before it got that far, so I gave up. The next day I was about to shovel it out when I remembered to turn the traction control off, so it would let the tires spin. She came right out. The truck did not. I used the car to pull the truck back until it got enough traction to get back to its original spot...then got in the car and drove out to the road, no problem.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Jared J

I'll take my awd subaru over any 4wd I've ever driven when it comes to ice, and I'm a North Dakota farmboy originally.

]

Couldnt agree more with you cowboy!
#1 reason my Outback will not be traded in when my 4x4 Pick up arrives in the driveway shortly - funny enough its the same brand of truck as in your photo!

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Me too. Blasting through 2 feet of snow with my F250 is a blast.

I am with you on this too Dave. I grew up driving gravel roads, and rear-wheel drive wins hands down. Way better steering control under power, and when young, I learned to master the four wheel drift around corners, fully under control. Learned the same techniques with dirt bikes and snowmobiles too. I love freaking my wife out drifting corners at full speed.

For traction, front wheel drive can't be beat, with all the weight over the drive wheels. In the snow it performs much better. My F250 in the snow without 4WD really sucks a lot of the time.

I think FWD totally outshines RWD on slippery roads. Back in the '70s it was all RWD, and sometimes you'd hit the black ice and before you knew anything was wrong the rear end was trying to trade places with the front. I hated that. Spun out on the expressway once, scared me pretty good. FWD just doesn't act unmannerly like that.

And yes, there are differences between AWD and 4WD, but either one is way better than 2WD.