Towing 13 ft Scamp - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-05-2012, 09:50 AM   #15
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Luck

Robin: "dumb luck"

I pretty much stopped counting on luck, when I figured out at an early age that most people blindly fell in love without really knowing their future partner. From that point forward I tried to understand what counts in a relationship before making a choice.

I considered the 300 girls in my high school class and chose three I thought might result in a successful marriage. I dated them all and after 7 years married one. No luck here but choice.

I don't mind luck but I seek conscious choice.

In my mind luck is what losers think winners have. I believe winners work hard and make good choices.

If you follow my posts I often have different approaches, to me it's a way of expanding the choices, of finding new ways.

I am simply sharing my experiences, I believe people should be capable of making their own choices. I have no vested interest in seeing others tow with a CRV. I on the otherhand am always willing to share.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpets View Post
Although this conversation has gotten a little bit "warm" I do hope that the moderators leave it alone. There is a difference between what can be done and what should be done.
As long as there are no flames and no name-calling the topic can proceed. Do not talk about each other, talk about the subject!

The key to towing is to know what YOUR trailer weighs, and you won't find that here. EVERYONE should take their own trailer to a local Public Scale and get at least a total weight (unhitched, trailer axles plus tongue jack on the scale) plus axle weight (hitched, trailer axles only on scale). My greatest fear in creating the Trailer Weights In The Real World thread is that it would be relied on by others as gospel, releasing them from the responsibility of WEIGHING YOUR OWN TRAILER. It is merely a range of possibilities to consider. Consider the 17' Casita Spirit Deluxe, the most popular Casita on the market:

ITEM_LENGTH_MAKE_______MODEL________AXLE__TONGUE__ __TOTAL
41___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2260_____560__ __2820
46___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2560_____380__ __2940
52___17_____Casita_____Spirit ______2660_____380_____3040
53___17_____Casita_____Spirit ______2740_____380_____3120
61___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2860_____390__ __3250
66___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2980_____300__ __3280
67___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2900_____400__ __3300
76___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______3000_____360__ __3360
77___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2960_____400__ __3360
80___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______3020_____480__ __3400
81___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2960_____440__ __3400
83___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2980_____450__ __3430
84___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______2960_____470__ __3430
86___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______3140_____360__ __3500
87___17_____Casita_____Spirit_______3000_____520__ __3520


If I had similar numbers of the other brands show up for me to weigh them, their results would also vary as much as these do.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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Congratulations on your new trailer. I looked at that one too and shes a beauty!
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by glamourpets View Post
One of the early '70s Boler brochures shows a Boler being towed by a VW beetle. Although these cars were probably heavier....
That's a common misconception - something to do with "they don't build them like they used to" (No, they build them waaay better.)

I think the current Honda Fit is probably the smallest car on sale in North America and that weighs 30% more than a 1970s Beetle - all that crash safety doesn't come light. It has more than twice as much power and probably has more than twice the stopping ability. And no doubt is not approved to tow anything.

(I'm carefully not mentioning that it's approved to tow 2200 pounds in death-wish Yurp, in case that is seen as inflammatory. Oh dang, I did, didn't I?)
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:53 PM   #19
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The bottom line as has been said many times - this is not the place to be publically sharing only parts of our experiences if its something that could get someone into serious trouble. Willing to bet that a good many of those asking about towing an over weight trailer don’t even know what the lever on the brake controller is for or how to use it or when! Choices are a good thing but its hard to make a good educated choice without all the facts & even harder to make when there is a good deal of misinformation on public lists such as this.

I would suggest it would be far more in the best interest of this list if when someone tells someone they should be ok towing over their limit (all though IMHO they should not be doing it at all) that they actually share *ALL* their experience. If someone happens to have a document they have written in regards to how they do it then that’s great. But as its all about the sharing of experience make sure you post it publicly at the same time the recommendation is made so others can also share their experience in regards to what you may or may not be recommending.

As I have said before on this topic if someone is send out a PM & what they are sending out is not something they are comfortable posting publicly they should probable be asking themselves if it really is something they should be sending out at all. The experts would say if you even have to ask the question of yourself you probable should not be hitting send!

I personally would be surprised if most people here don’t recognize & are thankful for the luck they have had that has gotten them through each and every day. We all know someone who wasn’t as lucky through no fault of their own or no choose they made and they certainly would never have been called a loser by anyone who know them.

Most importantly I would personally suggest that no one here who is married suggest to their spouse today that the only reason your marriage has lasted is due to the fact "you" simple made a good choice. That could also be very deadly
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens View Post
And no doubt is not approved to tow anything.
Yup, apparently the manual says if you tow anything at all with it Honda will void the warranty. Have no idea if that's factual or just internet rumour!
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:45 PM   #21
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How many of you know what the manufacturer's frontal area rating is on your tow vehicle? Are you aware that legal ratings start a 8000lbs in most states for all cars and light trucks?

In what way would overstressing drivetrain components cause harm to the drivers around you? (As opposed to chassis components)

Of course there are too many factors involved to jump to the conclusion that assured safety can be had simply by strict adherence to a weight guideline without consideration as to the criteria applied in each case, or other related guidelines.

For instance... a vehicle with a good tow chassis but a marginal engine or clutch, would be a better TV than a car with a strong driveline but a soft unmodified suspension... Even with the same tow rating.

Yet some seem to think that a simple engine option can make a driver irresponsible, all else being equal.
Which would be more responsible ... A marginal tow vehicle used with a cautious respect for it's capabilities, or an overkill set-up, driven with a total disregard for the fact that towing requires modified driving habits?

While guidelines are important,I still advocate informed and responsible towing,without seeing the need for the unfounded spectre of sanctions and sanctimony.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin G View Post
Welcome cindercharlie, Glad you joined us! Congrat's on your new Scamp!



Like your Husband and Carol, I believe you may be pushing boudries that you might regret pushing. You don't say if your camping with just the two of you or your a family camping? There are many factors when towing, and all factors need to be considered.


Of course there are those that choose to tow beyond the recomendations of their vehicle manufactures recommendations, can't change that! But only suggest you follow your vehicles owners manual.

If you don't know what the trailer weighs, take it and have it weighted. It's inexpensive to know exactly what your pulling around. It's not worth having an issue with either your vehicle (drive train, tranny, etc etc etc) or god forbid have an accident that not only includes your and yours but everyone else on the road around you when it happens. There are so many factors to consider when towing, and just because a vehicle can roll down the road towing something that is suppose to be out of their towing range doesn't mean it should tow it! One factor that many don't consider is their insurance provider not covering a vehicle that is towing improperly. Towing isn't all about getting down the road, sometimes it's about slowing a trailer down with going down a down grade. Can your vechicle handle it? Just because some people push their luck and get away with it, doesn't mean everyone can.


You say from what you have read here and else where you think you'll be fine. Of course as I said there are some who choose to tow improperly, But frankly 99% of towing information out there will tell you, you probably won't be fine...... Or at the very least pushing the boundries. Everyone takes information that fits their needs, but in this instance I will have to recommend you take your vehicle manufactures recommendations and bide by them.


If you really want to read something you should read the post where info is provided that even the manufactures are most likely gonna reduce their tow caps due to new studies. I will see if I can find that info to direct you there. I do hope you rethink your towing issue or at the very least do anything and everything to tow properly within the guidelines stated in your owners manual. Best of luck!
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #22
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Carol,

Making good choices is the key to life. Though I'm certain I made a good choice, I know Ginny is equally happy with her choice. Like most people Ginny was happy to have some one want to be her freind though I will also say it took almost 3 years to get my first date, persistant I am.

In retrospect, my goal was to make sure that the young women I dated had those characteristics I thought were important before I feel into love so deeply I could see nothing other than youthful passion. My goal was a continuous passion that's still alive after 48 years. I had experienced the opposite as a child and learned from it, probably recognizing it about 10 and becoming conscious about it by 15.

I never said I reject luck however so often winners are defined as lucky, when usually their hard work and good choices permit them to take advantage of luck that might come their way. I do know you can be struck by lightening, definitely bad luck, I also know not ot stand under a tree in a storm.

Carol your statement that 'Honda will void the warranty if you tow' is a false statement. My CRV document was to avoid hassle and to provide as much of our experience as possible.

I think it would be valuable to start a thread titled 'Towing Tips' where information like the use of the 'brake controller to stop sway', or 'checking ball locking" and so on .... could be posted without being virtually hidden within posts as it seems to be today.

Finally, if I haven't said it before, I understand the fear that Carol and Robin have though I don't have it myself. I certainly know as Floyd has suggested that things can go wrong any time, be as prepared as you can.

Safe and reasoned travel to all,
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:38 PM   #23
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I'm not sure if anyone is following the following thread: Towing a Scamp with a Trike

I suspect that the photos in that thread might make a few brains explode. If you can tow with THAT you can tow with almost anything. What you can do and what you should do are two totally different things.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post

In what way would overstressing drivetrain components cause harm to the drivers around you? (As opposed to chassis components)


floyd, I didn't say it would. My point was that towing over the vehicles tow capacity could as you said, overstress the vehicles components. I didn't intend for it to sound as such components would do harm to those on the road around you. But I suppose if such overstressed component came off and crashed into a vehicle on the road with you it might perhaps do harm. Hadn't thought of that!



Of course there are too many factors involved to jump to the conclusion that assured safety can be had simply by strict adherence to a weight guideline without consideration as to the criteria applied in each case, or other related guidelines.


That has been a point some of us have tried time and time again to make. There are so many other factors involved that recommending to tow improperly makes no sense! Things can happen even with the best towing set ups. Hence why I think your sentence, Which would be more responsible, hits the mark!


Which would be more responsible ...

Good question! Frankly what would be more "responsible" would be not to recommend improper towing. Frankly, no one know's who they are recommending improper towing to! You don't know if that person or persons can take the information apply it without incident. So be "responsible" and recommend that everyone tow within their vehicles tow capacity!


While guidelines are important,I still advocate informed and responsible towing,without seeing the need for the unfounded spectre of sanctions and sanctimony.
Ummmmmm, wouldn't sanctimony be thinking your towing experiences are above and beyond all other experiences? And basically saying that the millions of pages of information on towing within tow capacity's are wrong, wouldn't that be sanctimonious? Since when is towing about one persons towing experience? Just asking!



Again, it's not about towing improperly, it's about advocating it over and over and over! It's not about being a Pioneer in pushing boundaries, personally I believe there is another agenda and again the reason it shouldn't be recommened to anyone on a open forum. Nor, in a damn PM......................











Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpets View Post
I'm not sure if anyone is following the following thread: Towing a Scamp with a Trike

I suspect that the photos in that thread might make a few brains explode. If you can tow with THAT you can tow with almost anything. What you can do and what you should do are two totally different things.

Some think that because they can do it, (which I never said it can't be done) they can sing their praises over and over. It's not about self recongnition, it's about safety!
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:01 PM   #25
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Good Point, CRV Towing Experience

Derek, Good point time to get back to the theme.

Honda CRV Towing Experience:
1. Have towed 3 different trailers, each for at least a year.

2. Sunline 15.5, 2200 lbs, 19,000 miles, Loop of the USA, Loop of Newfoundland, Labrador and Quebec. Loop to FL. Only tow problem was mounting generator on rear bumper. 20 MPG.

3. Casita 16, 2600 lbs, 4000 miles, NH to FL. No problems. 22-23 mpg.

4. Scamp 16, 2400 lbs, 16,500 miles, trip to PEI, completing loop of the USA. No tow problems other than ball coming out of coupler caused by previous owner's modification of coupler. No damage.

5. Our Honda CRV is a 2.4L with manual transmission and on-demand 4 wheel drive. The Honda has 175,000 miles about 40,000 towing miles and another 50,000 miles unaccumulated on the odometer while being towed behind the motorhome.

It gets an oil change every 5000 miles. It has never had a driveline problem, same clutch. AC unit failed after warranty replaced no charge by Honda. The major modification to the Honda is to increase our tire pressures, 36F, 39R. We keep our tongue weight near 200 lbs.

We have forwarded Honda pictures and information on our towing trip to Labrador.

6. There are two adults in the Honda CRV. We carry four aluminum chairs, a sat dish and tribod, a volcano grill, a number of plastic bins with maps, rain coats and the like. Also we carry any rocks we find along the way that strike our fancy. We carry nothing on the roof or any bikes.

Notes:

1. All trailers had electric brakes.

2. The Casita was never towed with an anti sway bar.

3, The Scamp and Sunline have been towed with and without an anti-sway bar.

4. All tires were Goodyear Marathons, no flats or blowouts. Delamination of tire when towing Scamp with original tires after purchase, old no name tires and not Goodyears, replaced as soon as we arrived home.

5. I regularly check tire pressure and actually have tire pressure/temperature sensors on trailer.

6. I have a Prodigy brake controller. I test it every morning before we leave the driveway of the campground.

7. I have installed a break-away switch.

8. I now attempt to jack the coupler off the ball everytime we hitch up.

9. We check all the lights everyday we drive. Ginny checks everything I do when hitching up and I check everything she does.

10. We hardly ever drive over 60 mph. We avoid interstates, mostly because we prefer other roads even though most western interstates are empty compared to the eastern seaboard.

11. I check tire bolts on the trailer and Honda monthly, we lost a Honda bolt on the dirt 1000 mile Labrador Highway and had a loosened bolt on the trailer.

12. I check the hitch monthly for bolt tightness. We had a secondary bolt loosen on the hitch and cause a piece of non critical metal to crack. Hitch repalced by factory.

13. Our Scamp does not have a roof air conditioner. We don't see the need, don't like how they look and their effect on air flow. We have one propane tank and one battery. We do not have an awning but have a lightweight design in the works. We do have a rear bumper box and 5 below floor storage boxes.

Summary:
Some number of FRV members disapprove of our towing with a Honda CRV because the North American tow rating is less than adequate for a Scamp 16. We based our decision on the European tow rating. So far our experience is that it makes an excellent tow vehicle.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:01 PM   #26
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A Moderator's Input

FiberglassRV.com Community Rules
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Do not take every opportunity to express your disagreement... Voice your opinion respectfully and then let it go.
Carol H
  1. post #3
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Robin G
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This is how it begins.
Thank you for your input, but it's (past) time to let it go.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindercharlie View Post
My husband is CONVINCED that I cannot tow the Scamp w/ my CRV From what I've read, here and elsewhere, it seems to me like it should be fine...
Since you have to live with your husband and not us, I believe his opinion might carry a little more, er, weight on the subject. I have to ask, why does he think what he does? Some here feel that he has a point.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:45 PM   #28
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Let it be known that I have not recommended that anyone tow beyond a vehicle's capacity, or even it's rating.
Since no such implication was made, I see any inference made as the sole responsibility of the maker, who can have no legitimate basis on which to claim any implication on my part.
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