"Recommended Products Section?" - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-13-2012, 09:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BCDave View Post
And therein lies the problem - esp for a person who is new to fiberglass and/or to this forum
I think one of the neatest things about this forum community is the personal attention. You post some question or problem and real people read it and start offering advice, ideas and support. Yep that Donna does tend to lead the charge and is a reference librarian of the site. (thanks Donna)


What this means is people new to FG campers don't have to know the "key words" because if it's not clear in their post someone will help them clarify what they are looking for or are having a problem with. We members are a super duper natural language search engine, take that google and bing! We look at the "search" and figure out exactly what they "really" wanted or need to know. And our top results are what works for the individual who is "searching" for an answer from all the answers provided.


I like the idea of a one stop guide to what products and techniques "work best" but that would probably need to involve a poll, otherwise all the ideas would just become a 10 page discussion (with some interesting side rabbit trails) because that is what the people here do, share a community and campfire type discussions.

If you think politics and religion are bad get people going on speed, tires or towing capacity. People have very distinct and different view points but there is a lot of knowledge floating through those discussions. So what is the best tire, is it ST or truck?


After a poll established the top products someone would have to write a clear concise documentation of the group knowledge on the topic or products. Then a moderator would probably have to manage the posts that document this info to keep it organized.


What is "not polyglow but... time will tell" up to now? is it about 20 pages? I read several pages, found a single post with a tutorial on using Red Maxx, printed it and was on my way to Lowes. I kind of like the idea of the person that originally found out about the product, was willing to test it on his camper and share the results is documented and acknowledged by all the links back to that post.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:04 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by BCDave View Post
Is there any interest in establishing a "Products recommended by members" section/forum?

I will volunteer to be the moderator of that forum
Moderators work the entire website, we are short-handed and aren't set up for specialization.
Like a small business, everybody contributes as much as possible in all areas.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:38 AM   #17
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Name: Dave
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Well - I was just trying to see if I could help by assisting the site to be an even better resource for owners of F/G trailers. As was noted several times on this and other threads, a "recommended products" thread cannot be like a "normal" thread - when something is posted as a result of research and recommendations by members, it becomes locked - right then, upon being posted.

ONLY the moderator can have the ability to put any particular product recommendation into the section. There may have to be an off-line discussion among mods about including "this product" and why, prior to posting it.

Discussions of the product, countering views etc are then held on other "open" threads, but a "recommended products" (title is not final) cannot be one where there are a zillion pages on "this one is better than that one (and as the Smothers Brothers said "Mom Always liked you best") type of thing.

It needs to be a place where a member - newbie or "old hand" can go to see a quick one or two liner on "best product(s) to shine up a glass trailer: RedMax/Zep Wet look, Poliglow Car wax

Members have recommend Red Max # 3/Zep Wet Look (link to thread on "check this out - not poliglow..."

Other members members recommend Poliglow (link to threads recommending Poliglow)

END OF DISCUSSION, thread locked

Can it be re-opened? Yes, by a moderator. Will contrary views appear IN THAT THREAD? No.

If contrary views appear in the thread, the thread has then lost its purpose as a "one-stop" source of advice and has become a discussion thread, and it should therefore be taken down, in full.

EXAMPLE
In the Best products section, there would be headings for or on:
Polish
Caulk & sealants
Batteries
tires
brake controllers
door locks/latches
silicone removers
vents
fans
fridges
etc.
More as needed


Perhaps a "best practices/ or tutorials sections, such as the excellent one happening now under "you can repair fiberglass"

A link to a how to repack wheel bearings site or thread

Links to other articles of a "how to" nature as requested by members when they ask "how do i...."

I guess for it to work, a moderator will have to ride herd on it - nearly full time, on just that one section. That's why I didn't feel it was fair to ask the existing moderators/management to add to their loads, and I said I'd volunteer

However, if what I'm hearing is that there is little interest in adding a resource to the site without increasing the workloads of anyone else, then I'll drop it
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:14 AM   #18
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Good idea Dave.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:48 AM   #19
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I think a products link would be a great asset. I have already purchased products that I have read about from member's threads and testimonies as to their effectiveness. There is a wealth of experience and knowledge here to share and I agree that searching for these specifics using the search tool is often a frustrating endeavour! Having info in one place is a good idea
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:27 AM   #20
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The really unique aspect of Randy Bishop's shinola thread was the 31 pages of responses from those who tried RMP on his rec. Randy added the caveat "Only time will tell . . ." and as the pages of initially happy users mounted up, time also mounted up to answer Randy's initial reservation. I doubt if any thread template or moderator oversight will produce such a happy conjunction of initial product endorsement with a long-sustained positive feedback loop. One of a kind!

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Old 06-15-2012, 10:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
The really unique aspect of Randy Bishop's shinola thread was the 12 pages of responses from those who tried RMP on his rec. Randy added the caveat "Only time will tell . . ." and as the pages of initially happy users mounted up, time also mounted up to answer Randy's initial reservation. I doubt if any thread template or moderator oversight will produce such a happy conjunction of initial product endorsement with a long-sustained positive feedback loop. One of a kind!

jack
I think that the idea was this type of thread would result in one entry under the recommended products section for polish, with a link to the thread. That way the supporting posts and threads could be condensed into one entry and those with less time would not have to read all 12, and counting, pages.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:01 AM   #22
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You have no idea of the unconscionable tedium, David, as you quoted me before I edited 12 pages to 31 pages. So I forgot how many also but I think I've read them all. Amazing the successive generations of "legs" this thread has grown! No one is forced to read more than they wish and apparently a lot of us read enuf to give the stuff a try and tack on at least a day-after endorsement.

I used Google Custom Search to find a thread on Burro trailer production numbers yesterday evening. DId not reveal a verbatim version of the search words but did get "Where are all the Burros?" as one possible subect line and "production numbers" embedded in the text. There were several other suggested threads pulled up primarily by "any words contained within text". I believe this is a pretty standard search fomula for search engines. I think the model pointed at by Dave and others is the Wikipedia synopsis essay format. Altho it might be fairly simple to tote up the thumbs up and down on the Not Polyglo, I doubt that any of us here can successfully reproduce that forumla day after day given the "lick and a promise" time that most volunteers can devote. In addition, what criteria does one apply to determine the optimum moment to "lock" a product suggestion/endorsement thread? This is particularly apropo of "Not Polyglo----TWT".
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:18 AM   #23
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I hope my prior post did not give the impression I did not like the idea. If someone was willing to take on the work of managing and organizing the data I think it is a good idea.

I also wonder if this could encompass a "Vintage Parts and Pieces" listing of sources of supply. The links from members that are to sources of older parts and materials.

Wonder if polish should include cleaning "Polishing and Cleaning Products" because generally one has to clean before polishing. And questions come up about what is best to clean...

A little bit of the pros and cons is good, the silly-con caulk removal thread summary is a good example. I could not get the "1st" choice product based on review so I went with the "2nd" choice that required a wait but was available.

Another example of pro/con might be:
Nevr-Dull (alum. polish)
Pro - easy to use, readily availble at auto parts stores.
Con - does not leave any protective film behind.
Semichrome (alum. polish)
Pro - easy to use, a little goes a long way, leaves a protective silicon seal behind.
Con -generally has to be ordered online or special ordered at auto parts stores.

Both of these products generate a lot of black residue that is a little difficult to clean off of your trailer so masking tape to prevent this mess is a good idea.

This sort of pro/con type summary would be of value in looking for a product to accomplish a task.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:26 AM   #24
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Jack your post highlights the issue with the product recommendations.

Yes a whole lot of people have reported using Redmax and getting great results. But an important point that is missed is that in many of those cases they are people who are new to fiberglass trailers &/or looking after fiberglass on anything.

For some who have been maintaining fiberglass for many years whether it be a boat or a trailer there is still a IMHO and I know a lot of others a big question mark on the "Only time will tell" part of it.... in reality the majority that have used the product have only done so in the fast couple of years. Few who have done it 2 year or more ago (look at the date on the original posting July 2010) have actually come back to say how it held up to real world road usage.... one party did mention a problem & I think it was even in a different thread - peeling due to possible rock chips (Norm?) ... I don't recall seeing an update on that issue. The other big unknown is how many that have used Redmax are only summer time week-end warriors? Willing to bet a lot of them are, so there experience with the product standing up to real world road issues is going to be very different from someone that spends 90 days or more out a year with their trailer on the road in various weather & road conditions.

The other big one is I dont recall anyone telling what they had to go through to get it off or what it did to the fiberglass as a result. Yes some have fixed problems by just putting another coat or two on but has anyone actually tried to strip it right off and keep it off? How much work was that? How did it work out for them? In 5 or 10 years is the mention of Redmax going to get the same type of response the mention of caulking does?

As said previously what might be one persons dream product may actually be another persons worse nightmare. I personally would not buy a trailer that someone had put Redmax or it equivalent on.

Yes the idea of a special place for various products is a nice idea but it is as pointed out above very subjective. There could be a poll on each product and the moderators could talk about the product privately before posting but IMHO thats a heck of lot of extra work to ask the moderators to take on. If their willing to do that *great* but I dont personally think it realistic to expect them to.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:04 PM   #25
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Carol, I checked some threads from our FG cousins of the afloat in a boat persuasion and quickly found some reservations concerning total removal of both Polyglo and the floor coatings. Deep contamination of porous gelcoat is a concern for those who wish to paint over gelcoat (or in many cases the mishmash of gelcoat, raw glass and body filler that makes up the substrate on older trailer (or boat) hulls with a lot of cosmetic and structural remuddle. Nothing is forever and prep work for a total change of surface coating frequently doesn't take place in ideal conditions (under cover) with ideal time alloted (a whole lot of it!). Likewise, experience is too often the thing that enables you to recognize a miSTEAK when you make it again! Not a perfect world full of technicians with perfect technical mastery of a thousand subjects. Your warnilng about the consequences of "looks good today" solutions is warranted. For those of us with the laziness and patience, the "cheap stuff" is looking pretty good. I'm not recoating the Burro after nearly 13 months in the sun and rain and four road trips. I'm satisfied with the shiny and easily cleanable surface for now and hedging my bets by not adding more coats and the chance of a bad interlayer bond to long-cured coats. As to the work involved for the Czar-elect[s] of product endorsement, I am in complete and unqualified agreement with your opinion.

jack
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:24 PM   #26
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To do what BC Dave is suggesting could be done on the basis of a product poll area.

The primary job of a moderator is to make sure the rules of the forum are being followed. Asking the moderators to decide on product recommendations raises issues of liability. Running a forum is a big job and at times a thankless one, moderators are key to the smooth running forum.

For myself I own a major forum and as I view this thread I ask myself if I would want my forum involved in recommending products. My conclusion is NO!

This forum does a fine job providing many different opinions on many topics.
There is also the issue of advertising / indorsing forums cost money to run.
Would I want to support a product as a forum owner without benefit to the forum ?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
Carol, I checked some threads from our FG cousins of the afloat in a boat persuasion and quickly found some reservations concerning total removal of both Polyglo and the floor coatings. Deep contamination of porous gelcoat is a concern for those who wish to paint over gelcoat (or in many cases the mishmash of gelcoat, raw glass and body filler that makes up the substrate on older trailer (or boat) hulls with a lot of cosmetic and structural remuddle. jack
.
Sorry Dave we are taking this topic somewhat off topic although it does highlight the issues with product recommendations.

Jack is correct the idea of using Redmax came from the boat industry where it had started to be used a few years before it became the thing to do here. They are now starting to see boats being sold and people wanting to put a new custom paint job on the old boat only to find that there is a good chance the new paint job will fail due to the fiberglass being contaminated with a floor finish. So people may want to keep that in mind if they are fixing up a trailer to sell & or to preserve an older trailer for years to come.

As far as faster and cheaper goes - when I read a post and look at photos of process of getting a trailer done with RedMax I giggle to myself and question both those assumptions. With all the repeat washings needed and use of cans of barkeeps friend and or 3m pads & hand scrubbing to get stains off before coating and the cost of the RedMax itself it all in cost money and time. Got to question if it really is faster & cheaper than just giving the trailer a simple wash and borrowing the neighbors power buffer and buying one small bottle of *good* marine rubbing compound & a can of good wax and spending a day on it...... yup I need to give it a new coat of wax each spring but that only takes an afternoon and with it you know are not damaging the fiberglass by doing it. If you used a good wax you should have no problem washing the dirt off the trailer. Oh I know lots of people are going to say but but but my trailer had no shine at all & was all stained etc.... yup that may be true but mine having spent the first 16 years of it life sitting in the Idaho sun wasnt show room condition either LOL. Not that it is now but it sure looks as shiny as a Redmax trailer or at least IMHO it does

Sorry Dave, will get off the topic of specific products - just wanted to show how **very** subjective recommendations can be.... now back to the topic. Promise!
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:40 PM   #28
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RMP is great for older pitted gelcoat, newer still glossy RV there are other options that may be better choice. Anything on the surface is a problem if your painting or waxing. Prep to get totally clean is where 75% if not more of the time goes.

Which makes me withdraw my suggestion of a poll. Nothing is going to provide a "best" what is really being suggested is a knowledge base of known good products that are solutions/options.

Not trying to to tell Dave how to do the job he has offered to take on just a suggestion. Ask in a post, condense replies into digest of the information. Provide some pro/con and any comments that he thinks would be the most helpful. You have an executive summary of information in one place. Link back to the source discussion and done.

Tires? Ask what do you use, how do you use RV (avg speed, lot of interstate, long trips or short), how much did they cost, how long have you used, milage driven and maybe what pressure do you use. Plus any bad tire experiences (avoid these). Condense and let folks figure out what fits their budget and needs.

Brake controllers? Features that matter, price, how well does it work. What kind of driving?

You get the idea.

Removal of RMP should be easy, it's a floor wax and people strip that all the time:

"Although I have not tried it myself, there have been posts here and on other websites claiming that the RMP stripper works well without damaging the underlying fiberglass or graphics. Ammonia has also been mentioned as a viable alternative. Finally, over on the Fiberglassrv forums, one user "accidentally" found that the tire cleaner solution at the local coin-op carwash removed the RMP quicly and easily, again without any damage."

I think I read that post on tire cleaner "learning experience".

Paint process generally would not involve a stripper/remover that would do a great job on floor wax. So if not expected it would be easy to leave residue behind and mess up the paint job is that the wax or the prep?
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