A lot of changes come with Fulltiming

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Cathi

I know you are only in the U.S. and Canada but how about how you view the world now? Or at least the U.S. And Canada as compared to before you saw so many places in each.

Cathi,

I wrote the response to your question at 12:30 AM while waiting for my sister-in law's flight to arrive at Logan Airport, Boston can be summed up in one word "tired". We don't stay up that late more than once a year. As well driving in real darkness becomes a growing effort, we rarely do it and more rarely for distances.

My view of the world as I've traveled it has opened my eyes to lots of issues I was not aware of before leaving the NH and the USA. I certainly did not expect the class system that still exists in England, the exclusionary practices of Germany and the insulation of France from outside ways, most noticeable in French language protection.

As I travel Canada, I see a little of the English influence, was shocked to see insulation of Quebec from the rest of Canada, though less than when I was 10 years old and visited the Gaspe.

This view extends to the 50 states. The states, in a sense, are all little fiefdoms. NH is decidedly different from our neighbor to the south. We are virtually a tax-less state and they are locally called Taxachusetts. Where ever you are the majority of the people accept their local condition and most often assume everyone is like them. Most simply living the best they can in their environment.

We have very good friends who hate Texas, actually a fairly successful, vibrant and diverse state but different from their home state of MA. They perceive everything from their 60 years in MA. They can not appreciate the special-ness of TX.

I remember when Mike Dukakis ran for president and was soundly beaten, I was not surprised, his MA view was decidely different from what most of the rest of the country believed.

I love the USA and Canada, they are both places where individuals can become really successful through their own work. Look at all the people starting little trailer companies, certainly most will fail but some where there's another Escape. I applaud them all for trying. As Dad said, you get no hits if you don't come to bat.

Our travels give us a good taste of people all across the Canada and NA, all living their relatively short lives. Most of the people we meet are really trying to make the most of their short stays (we simply don't go near those who aren't trying for what ever reason). On the whole we love seeing the lives of people. Going to the end of the road, to a little outpost fishing port, watching a man build a coffer dam style dock from logs and boulders or talking to two sisters planting their family potato and cabbage field. All that kind of stuff adds to our every day.

On top of that all, both Canada and the USA are wide open spaces, lots of space for just me and Ginny. We still drive roads where you can stop by the side of the road, places where silence prevails, where it is just you and your Scamp. There is beauty and peace, you forget the news of Baltimore or the Middle East, places you can't fix.

I have come to know people everywhere, I like them, I accept the differences and am happy to share their environments. It all gives me pause to wonder.

Hope that's a better response in the glow of mother's day, bless the mothers for that's where it all starts.

[honda03842]

We spend less money on all kinds of things.

We spend less money on gas. We travel about 25,000 miles a years, that averages to 68 miles a day. When we worked we each averaged that just driving to and from work. Fuel usage easily cut in half and probably more because we did more than go back and forth to work.

Secondarily, our RV lifestyle only requires one vehicle, one vehicle that we generally do not drive as fast and now rarely drive in bad weather. As well we're only insuring and repairing one vehicle.that's a rather large savings.

Though we still own a home our utility bills for the home are dramatically less compared to when we lived here year round. Our utility bills on the road are extremely small.

Clothing is really small. In one's regular life you have different classes of clothes, work, church, yard clothes, and maybe adventure clothes...on the road is basically one set and they are less expensive clothes..jeans are $10, I bought 5 vivid colors of Hanes t-shirts last month for under $20. Our clothing expense is tiny.

Housing, because we didn't sell our house, has been pretty much the same. For us it was a mistake. The cost of owning our home for a year is more than camping for a year.

Food is definitely less. We simply eat less when we're traveling, the few months we're home, food is noticeably a higher expense.

Entertainment is less. We used to regularly go to movies, buy lots of books, and go to theater and take expensive destination vacations.

Now the vacations are part of our everyday lives, a bonus of the life style, generally less showy but more fun. We go great places that most people haven't even heard of before.

We still read a lot. A lot of the books cost a lot less, many campgrounds have trade a book, since we can't carry a lot of books we stop at flea markets and the like and often find great inexpensive books.

We rarely do theater any more, certainly no trips to the city to see this or that. Movies are once a year events, unless a campground has a movie night... we know of one Oregon campground built on attached to a drive in theater that shows movies.

We don't gift each other as much, at least not on a schedule of birthdays, anniversaries and the like. The gifting is different, some of which seems to come with getting older. We sort of feel we have everything. A gift now might be something for the both of us, I think part of that comes from the oneness.

Some categories have stayed pretty much the same, gifts for others, charities and medical insurance.

Though we've had our NH home for most of our RV travel time, we have virtually stopped spending money on it. Our focus is our travel and live in that trailer. We have not bought furniture, appliances, ... virtually anything for the home...really our home is the Scamp.

It seems in a sense much of what we did for the home was for show. We have at least a dozen fair size oils and water colors in our little beach house, We are taking 3 to Florida the rest have been gifted to the family. The process of art decoration is no longer part of our lives. Not everyone does art decoration but most people do some kind. We have a friend who collects Christmas dolls as an example... The only thing we collect is stones from around the country, inexpensive and fun.

My son was over for Mother's day and asked me how much cheaper living our RV life style is compared to our working life. It's no more than a third the cost and could have been less.

As much as I read about the lifestyle in the year before we leapt into this, we jumped in whole hog, from the first inspiration to leaving was less than a year and we had never slept in an RV in our life.

In conclusion, it can be an inexpensive way to live. It requires changes, changes that have not hurt us. Ginny was telling our son is that as long as we're together everything is fine.

It's funny because Ginny has a hard time throwing things out. On Friday she lost the stone from her engagement. I can't remember the last time such devastation was on her face. I immediately said we'll replace it.. that day. She doesn't want a replacement. Suddenly she's very capable of throwing things away. She's lost one of her real emotional attachments, other things are secondary.

RVing fulltime can be inexpensive but it can also be expensive. I meet plenty of people who want to have their actual home being towed behind them. They feel the need to have huge refrigerators, even dish washers, a king bed, .... for some these items are necessary. Not so much for us. Our adventure is very fullfilling.

[honda03842]

I hope you all realize that I'm writing this as food for thought, not as a well thought out series. Feel free to ask a question or challenge a thought. It will force me to be more disciplined.

[WendyW]

Norm, I'm curious about whether your and Ginny's relationship before Scamp was on a continuum toward the close and rich one you have now, or if it was more humdrum, less focused, more automatic -- like I would imagine life would be like with obligations, events, etc. Did Scamping profoundly change how you saw and related to each other? Could things have gone the other way without the effort you each made to get where you are now? What you so eloquently describe seems to be what we all live for but few are willing to make the leap to get. If you had known that your lives would become so rich and full, would you have started sooner?

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by WendyW

Norm, I'm curious about whether your and Ginny's relationship before Scamp was on a continuum toward the close and rich one you have now, or if it was more humdrum, less focused, more automatic -- like I would imagine life would be like with obligations, events, etc. Did Scamping profoundly change how you saw and related to each other? Could things have gone the other way without the effort you each made to get where you are now? What you so eloquently describe seems to be what we all live for but few are willing to make the leap to get. If you had known that your lives would become so rich and full, would you have started sooner?

Wow Wendy, actually we both love your questions. I opened your post and immediately read it to Ginny to get her feelings.

One of her first responses was that Ginny was concerned about my health. Actually neither of us thought I’d live very long (my dad died at 45) and when my college roommate died at 58 it triggered me to suggest we go home, buy an RV and quit our jobs. Recognize, we were both at the peak earning points of our lives. Ginny’s response to my idea of hitting the road was.. “there’s no point in having money if you’re dead”.

Our health has improved dramatically through conscious choices and characteristics of the life style. Things that were wrong with us when we started, like Ginny’s knees, have improved dramatically, no more ice packs.

I was very busy and not always the most available parent or husband. Early in my married life I was into multi-tasking to the nth, hospital board, mayor, company president, soup kitchen founder, little league officer,.... trying to do it all before i died. Ginny never complained and supported this vicious drive within me..through boom and bust. A husband has to appreciate that support.

With a family there is some automatic in it all. People need to be fed, laundry done but that’s part of living and still is in our Rving lifestyle,,,though we cook less and do less laundry. The reality is our lives are enhanced by the continuously shared time together. The relatives and friends joke all the time typically saying..Don’t you need space or I’d have killed him. Neither of us have ever felt this in our travels. Even in a small trailer you have the space of your mind and it’s privacy. Of course I share my thoughts with Ginny but I am often alone in there. There’s really much to think about.

Ginny said “Humdrum?? No living with Norm is never humdrum”. I would say it’s never been humdrum because Ginny has supported my craziness. When I wanted to build and live in a Geodesic dome, she went right along with it..or if I wanted to start a business she pitched in allowing me to continuously have fun. We generally have been on the ride together. When I worked for others, there were times I’d be away for long stretches, or work 48 hours in a row, she would handle all the normal parenting, again allowing me to meet my working needs.

Ginny and I both worked after the kids were about 10. Though we did work together in one of my companies generally we worked in separate companies. As a result we were apart for most of the day. Nights were often taken up by our active children or other club and social events. We did have a good life, but not the kind of life that results from our 24/7 life now.

More on the automatic...a big transition in our life was the boys going to college.. how magic it was like being in high school again..dating, doing anything you want any time you want. Our Seattle son has just reached this state in life and I just smile seeing all the fun they are having.

Did Scamping profoundly change how you saw and related to each other?
Profoundly change...Ginny again, “Not profoundly, but enhanced. I was surprised that he could fix anything, do everything." Now this response surprised me. My job basically was making products, any kind of product. I rarely worked in the same field and made all kinds of things. Ginny again “RVing was totally new to us. We didn’t know anything, but you read like crazy and figured it out.” Her final thought “travel with an engineer”.

I’ve said it before, but Ginny is silently a great teacher (she did teach 5th grade for awhile). She is still fun to be with, the charades and taffy pulling of our childhood are gone, but amazingly to me the fun of our childhood is still there..still kids, still friends, still lovers...it is really great. As hard as Ginny worked to make my early adult life fun, I try to offer that to her.

Would you have started sooner?
When we began this adventure our plan was 3 years, never even considering 15 years. Ginny said no to that question, though I would have started sooner knowing what I know now. The most valuable asset I own is my health, similarly for Ginny. I know physically we’d both be better than we are if we started earlier. My great NC Doctor said to us, if I could get people to make good choices most of my patients would be a lot better.

One lesson I learned, particularly as we clean our house to sell it, we wasted a lot of money that could have supported us in an earlier road start. Too much unneeded stuff.

Could things have gone the other way ‘between you’? Probably impossible. Ginny is more wonderful than I describe. She is as good a person as I had suspected when I first met her and she has always made my life as wonderful as possible. It took me three years to get a date (apologize to those who know this) but during those three years she was always super nice to me and just about everyone else in our little world.

What you so eloquently describe seems to be what we all live for but few are willing to make the leap to get.
I am a leaper. My first mentor after my dad basically said "the purpose of life is to have fun. If you’re not having fun, do something else". I’ve followed that. I’ve always felt that no matter what happens I can get back to a reasonable position. The reality is (if you live in a Scamp you know this) it doesn’t take much to live happily. (My Dad’s important mentoring was if you want to know what your girlfriend will be like know the mother. Note he didn’t say look at the mother but 'know' the mother.)

Sorry for the length. Hope I answered. Underneath this is living together 24/7 requires accommodation, a measure of giving and taking, attempting to please the other, for it is in pleasing the other that we get the most pleasure (I learned this from sex.

With Love from Ginny and norm (intentional little n)

[honda03842]

Wendy,
I suspect we'll spend more time talking about your questions in the previous 2 posts.

Starting sooner... Now Ginny's thinking the answer's 'Yes'. Beyond the benefits for us, we would have been healthier and would probably enjoyed it even more. Also we're not complaining, we started the adventure at 58 and the years have been great.

As to profoundly change how we saw each other. In further thinking I think not but it did increase how much deeper we see each other. It took me 3 years of enjoyable effort to get that first date (I shined my shoes for a week before the date) . I still shine, but it's a shining of sharing life, attempting to make everything better for both of us. All of us have wonder within, it takes a little effort to bring it forth sometime, as it comes forth it can be built upon.

I feel good writing about our life together.

[WendyW]

I feel good reading about your life together. What a dazzling life you've had! Keep writing about it, please, as thoughts bubble up.

Wendy

[Cathi]

Norm, seems you and Ginny were jolted into this lifestyle by your friend's death. If you had not been the kind of person who had already made one big change after another, doubt you would have run out and bought an RV and quit your life as it were. You must have had the interest in RVing already but no time to do it? Then suddenly it was the only thing to do.

Not sure either one of you has changed because of it, according to what you have said, only your life together. You now have the time to appreciate things you have never been able to, and to have an unhurried and more enjoyable life, seeing much that others are missing. It is probably a very enviable life to most on here.

[honda03842]

Cathi, a little story to confirm your thought, a previous death had sent me off on the same RV path and was responsible for my typical 5 year stay in a job.

When we got married Ginny began teaching 5th grade and I went to work for a relatively small company. My job was to make what ever the president wanted. He was a wonderful man. A customer would say 'I needed a ladder to the moon; he would respond with 'What color?'. The company became successful by doing what wasn't being done or what others thought couldn't be done.

As president he would walk up to an engineer and just take him off his defined job. I was hired to be the president's guy to prevent him from being disruptive in his own company. Really a fun job because he would ask me to make a whatever that I knew nothing about. Early on I was sent to NM for 3 months and saw my first mountain, a shocking sight. Mountains alone are enough reason to buy an RV and go west.

Mountain interest tweaked, that summer Ginny and I drove to the Rockies on vacation.

Ginny became pregnant. When we returned we learned my Dad had pancreatic Cancer. He died the day before our son was born. I was 25. After he died I came home one day and said to Ginny, lets sell the house, buy a trailer and travel until we spend all our money... really not too much money because we were just starting in life. 'Masterful Ginny' said sure. We went out and bought a tow vehicle, 24 foot stick built trailer and put our house up for sale.

I went into work and told the president. He calmly said I understand what you're feeling. (His Dad had been taken by Hitler's SS to never be seen again.)

The next day the President came back and said, We have an offer. Take you wife and son and go to Nice, France. Stay there until you feeling better. We'll find things for you to do in Europe. (Now there's a great boss.)

After about 3 months in Nice two friends called me and asked me if I wanted to start an electronic music company....I responded "I can't even play a whistle".

I came back, sold the trailer and was off on a new path.

"Not sure either one of you has changed because of it, according to what you have said, only your life together. You now have the time to appreciate things you have never been able to, and to have an unhurried and more enjoyable life, seeing much that others are missing. It is probably a very enviable life to most on here."

I do think we've changed.

I've changed. I am Ginny focused where in the past work and engagement were my focus. I would very often do 70 hour weeks and work every day. I accept challenge and am a finisher.

Ginny's changed. Ginny was perfectly happy in her work, family and life. We mostly had adequate funds to do what we wanted. She had no need to take this step other than for me. It was a big step and actually she only stopped working a couple of days before we hit the road, probably expecting (and maybe hoping) for another 'Nice event'.

We've both changed in that we're closer than ever, communicate better than ever and I'm happier than ever.

"You must have had the interest in RVing already but no time to do it? Then suddenly it was the only thing to do."

Though some 30 years earlier we had bought 'the trailer that never left the yard', in those following 30 years I never had a thought about RVing, never read a book and knew no one who did it. While my roommate was dying we stopped at Bahia Honda State Park in FL and that was the trigger, no analysis, just a spontaneous response.

I can be spontaneous. My sister-in-law says if I were an Eskimo, a salesman could sell me a refrigerator. All I know is life is short.. do something to have fun.. it's a good model for your kids and grandkids.

"As to only thing to do."

Hope this doesn't sound bad, but I can always find something interesting to do. The reality is that there is more things to do than one has time to do. As well each of us has more capability than we will ever tap or worse try to tap. In the simple case of traveling about we will never see it all. It's not a sad thing just reality.

I am a diverse reader, a lot of non-fiction. I see all kinds of topics that I only visit in books that could attract me to a new path. Right now, if I were younger, I'd start a trailer company just because I don't see what I want.

One of my thoughts in most of my writing is that life can be fun, maximizing the fun is possible. As well, work at improving the relationships that are most important, the one with yourself and with your partner, it really helps the RVing experience and can make it the time of your life.

Thanks Cathi, it benefits me to write about our road life. One needs to consider the past, but not dwell on it, to write the future.

[Badger]

I can't tell you how much I have learned from this site in the past 18 months but I'm pretty sure that this is my favorite thread ever!!! Thanks Norm.

"Right now, if I were younger, I'd start a trailer company just because I don't see what I want."

Probably more appropriate for another thread but I would love to hear your thoughts on that subject.

[Pete]

Norm, I think I've figured out your dilemma about the earth losing magnetism. It has to do with the Law of Conservation of Energy. Over the last 15 years, as you and Ginny have been drawn closer and closer together, your bond has strengthened and the magnetism between you has increased significantly. Since there is only so much energy in the universe, you must be drawing from the earth's magnetism as your own increases.

[honda03842]

Rick. I''ve tried to start a thread on a small trailer to hopefully reflect a more functional trailer once before without success. Actually I wrote Scamp a long multi-page letter at one time trying to encourage them to extend their line in a new direction. If they had followed up I probably would have interrupted my travels for a year as a free worker.

Pete, Though I love the thought, I wish your suggestion was reality about magnetism. I have done a lot of reading on the subject, attempting to understand the source of the earth's magnetism. I am amazed how every time believes they, to an extent, know it all. The reality is we don't making it fun to consider and thankfully Ginny is enticed to think about it as well.

One of my favorite recent figures was Buckminster Fuller, hence our Geodesic Dome. He spent a lot of his life thinking and playing. Our lifestyle provides a lot of opportunity for 'musing'.

[WendyW]

Norm, I would love to see that multi-page letter -- or an update of it -- that you wrote to Scamp. Perhaps you could start a new thread about building the ideal molded fiberglass camper, assuming you even stayed with fiberglass. We could discuss pros and cons and the engineers could introduce reality checks from time to time. I don't even have my new Casita yet, but I already want it to be different! But at the same time, I want to read more about how you two became who you are....

[honda03842]

Wendy,
A little quick one... previously posted somewhere.

When I was in high school I read how my Dad met my Mom. They did not have a good marriage.

I recognized when you fall in love you really become joyously blinded. When I was in high school I decided that love needed to be a conscious choice. I actually made a list of the people I thought would make a good partner and eventually dated them all. Ginny was on the list.

I met Ginny as a sophomore in high school and got our first date our senior year. I was forever at her house before that first date immersing myself in an absolutely wonderful family. I was well loved there.

We stopped dating after high school but we were always good friends. I wrote to her all through college and we began dating after my sophomore year of college and were engaged during the summer between my junior and senior years.

I absolutely believe in friends first, really getting to know someone..the love just happens.

Wendy, if you have particular interest in some part of our lives other than RVing let me know and I'll PM. I suspect most people are more into our RV lives.

Thank you for your interest.

[honda03842]

Ginny’s big one revolves around people and work. Surprisingly she does not miss work but does miss family and friends. The fact that we’re home on average for 4 months does alleviate the situation, however now we focus on family and neighbors more than old friends.

The big positive change is learning about things and seeing so much mind expanding places, her first response again surprised me when she mentioned the Missoula Floods, something new to her, well worth reading about.

Missoula Floods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For me from observing Ginny, it was things I didn’t know about her, things that never came up. She absolutely loves trains, even coal trains, thrilled if we're first at a crossing. Ships, dams, rivers and locks fall into “I can watch it for hours’. One night camped between the N/S west coast train track and the Columbia river she got to count trains and ships while I slept.

One more, when we take the NL Ferry that let you come into the dock area 12 hours before departure. We are virtually always the first non-commercial vehicle in line. This allows Ginny to watch the loading of the ship. I generally read or nap. We do take meal breaks, walking into town or grabbing a bite from the trailer.

Ginny is not fond of unknown dogs though she loved our’s and some friend’s dogs (She’s been bitten). She’s also shy of bears but really loves animals. She’s kept a log of the number of moose, caribou and bears on trips. Seeing animals first is just above a kids game for us as we travel. We even tracked down where the first 4 Moose were imported to Newfoundland,,,the four turned into 150,000.

We have settled into the easy life, hardly ever yearning for what was, but seeking the new.

[Cathi]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Hope this doesn't sound bad, but I can always find something interesting to do. The reality is that there is more things to do than one has time to do. As well each of us has more capability than we will ever tap or worse try to tap. In the simple case of traveling about we will never see it all. It's not a sad thing just reality.


One of my thoughts in most of my writing is that life can be fun, maximizing the fun is possible. As well, work at improving the relationships that are most important, the one with yourself and with your partner, it really helps the RVing experience and can make it the time of your life.

Thanks Cathi, it benefits me to write about our road life. One needs to consider the past, but not dwell on it, to write the future.

It does not sound bad at all that that there are more things to do than one has time to do.

The other thought about writing the future is in keeping with your whole life also, looking to the next opportunity for change. Of course, you realize, Norm, that you are no longer really looking for much change, settling into the Florida --- Newfoundland thing. And that makes perfect sense at your advanced ages. You know what you like best and are sticking with it, including being more "Ginny-focused."

We look forward to your next adventure. Of course, every trip has different experiences and new things to see so it always makes for interesting reading. We appreciate your posts on all of this.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Cathi

I
you realize, Norm, that you are no longer really looking for much change, settling into the Florida --- Newfoundland thing. And that makes perfect sense at your advanced ages. You know what you like best and are sticking with it, including being more "Ginny-focused."

Cathi,
You've got the advanced age part right..we're 72. As you age you don't necessarily feel the process except maybe when you find out you're going to be a great grand parent. However our plan is not to settle into FL, we do plan to continue our travels for at least 10 more years.

As to Newfoundland, I see us going back. As much as we've seen, there's always more in a place like that. We have a number of places we just like returning to, places where we don't know a single person well but just love the place.

Though we've driven every non-neighborhood road in Newfoundland, we haven't spent extended period everywhere.

[Cathi]

I would love to go to Newfoundland but doubt I could manage those very long ferries and guess that is the only way. Can always go to Nova Scotia though. It has been on the list forever. Have to get there.

[honda03842]

Cathi, Obviously I don't know your condition that concerns you but Ginny didn't think she could as well. After the first one it's totally disappeared. It's not a ferry in the normal ferry sense, it's really an ocean liner. The duration of the trip is 6 hours. We usually take the night ferry and sleep through the trip.

[coastsignal]

Hi Norm & Ginny,

Thanks for all the details. The more information and ideas we share with, and the more we listen to each other, the richer and fuller life is.

Sometimes a seemingly small detail can make a big positive change in one's life.

We will probably never be fulltimers, but your comments are really valuable to me. I'll be reading all that you post in this thread.

You talked about some diet things that make sense. So, today's immediate resolution for me is to buy smaller cakes and less desserts for birthday parties (like we just had for Linda) so that there are less leftover sweets that I am always prone to "finish off". We always have leftover desserts. Less cake, more fruits & vegetables.

Mark & Linda