Older & Just Retired & Never Had an RV

[Civilguy]

Ah, so you probably already know much more about trailers than I started out with!

Unless you find a Scamp 19 "fifth wheel" suitable, I think the "in between" for size and quality would probably be a Bigfoot. I think it will probably be heavier and wider than the Escape, but not as expensive as an Oliver. We'll hear a lot more tomorrow when more of the east coast and midwest members get active again.

We had a Casita 17 and found it to be much smaller than the Escape 21. The interior lengths are about 13'7" versus 17'2". The published exterior widths are 6'8" versus 7'4", so you are looking at the difference between around 90 and 125 square feet of cabin area respectively.

The area under the Casita's dinette seats was pretty well taken up by the battery, water pump, water tank, electrical panels and cord storage while our Escape has a fair amount of storage available under the optional "U" dinette and under the full-time bed. This is additional to the cabinetry.

The more rounded body in the Casita makes the upper cabinets smaller and the interior cozier. We found that the Casita was a gem to tow in high winds, but it didn't have the space we were looking for.

Our delivered weight with options and the loaded tongue weight on the Escape are substantially higher than published, so I suggest not skimping on rated towing capacity. The 21 has a 5,000# GVWR. We went with a 7,200# tow rating.

If you continue to look at the Airstreams, you might want to pay close attention to tank capacities, the sizes of the refrigerators and that sort of thing.

The fiberglass manufacturers all have referral programs so you can see them at an owner's place. How local that will be to you is something of a lottery of course.

[Perryb67]

We've owned:

2001 Scamp - old dated design, small tanks, good basic camper, we're now in retirement so it's too small

2007 Casita - newer design and slightly bigger than Scamp, but again too small

2003 Bigfoot - you better like lots of wood, built like a tank and pulled like one. Great room, separate bedroom was wonderful. Heavy and 9-10 mpg. I've talked to others and even a 17' owner got only 9-10 mpg. On a par with an Oliver, but completely different design.

We could have had:

2015 Oliver - I wanted it, and it was nothing but quality, however, Terry couldn't handle the small refrigerator, small stove, narrow single beds, or the white, stark, sterile interior.

We've ordered, due in October:

Escape 5.0TA fifth wheel - it seems to tick all our boxes. We'll see!

There's something there for nearly everyone who wants fiberglass. What works for us, might not be for you.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Montana Brad]

Thanks for all your information.Who knows where we will end up but for sure I am going to call tomorrow and see if I can view some different units locally(which for us is Montana,Idaho and Eastern Washington.)I have not looked at a Bigfoot but did find a new one for sale which if still available we may look at.
Of all the Escapes I saw on the showroom floor I liked the 5th wheel most.
"We could have had:
2015 Oliver - I wanted it, and it was nothing but quality, however, Terry couldn't handle the small refrigerator, small stove, narrow single beds, or the white, stark, sterile interior."
This is similar reasons my wife said about the Oliver she did not like by viewing Oliver photos on the internet.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

As regards our Escape, I will allow that I would prefer that the bulk of the plywood interior not be photo-printed 1/8" luan, but the cabinetry is an item that is only offered in some configuration options; they won't make a set in my beloved birch. So, the other day I shrugged and beavered my first hole through the flimsy plywood and mounted a 12v / dual USB receptacle......................

Excellent write up Mike .

[John in Santa Cruz]

yeah, all electric trailers just don't work for me. at least half our camping, really more like 2/3rds, is without hookups. if we're cannon-balling the miles to get somewhere for an event, I might just sleep in a road side rest stop, or pull a little ways off the highway into a national forest and drop anchor, not even unhitch... gotta have heat if its cold, gotta have a stove for fixing some grub, gotta have the fridge keep food cold, and gotta have hot water in the morning for a quick shower or at least a sponge bath before resuming our travels.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

As regards our Escape, I will allow that I would prefer that the bulk of the plywood interior not be photo-printed 1/8" luan, but the cabinetry is...

my favorite ply is the Baltic birch stuff... you get really smooth edges machining it with a router table, and it looks great if you stain and varnish as-is. its extensively used in high end european cabinetry and furniture making.

I've only seen it in 6, 9, and 12mm, but I know it comes in 3mm (~1/8"). that would make an awesome interior ply instead the lua, and probably not weigh /that/ much more (100 sq ft of 3mm baltic birch would be like 40-50 lbs). you probably couldn't staple or nail it, you'd want to use screws in pilot holes and/or glue to assemble things.

its not cheap. my friends make telescopes from it.

[k corbin]

Originally Posted by Montana Brad

My wife and I just retired.We have been considering buying an RV for a number of years when we retired.We would like to travel to a warmer place in the winter(not sure where) and living near an northern ocean in the summer.We live in Montana now.We have mostly considered buying a tow behind trailer because we do not want to tow another vehicle behind a Motor Home.We looked for a few years at Air Streams but when we discovered fiberglass it seemed to be a better fit.Lighter in weight and better built for the price.So we made a trip to Escape trailers in Chilliwack BC. to look them over.We were thinking of a 21 foot nothing larger.What we found was a trailer that was built well as far as the frame and fiberglass but the rest seemed to us as a bunch of cheaper stuff used to make the price low.A lot of the stuff they used was what they purchased from some other manufacturer.The inside build seemed cheap.I am not knocking the Escape per say just using that as an example,maybe all RV"s are like this.So I am here looking for advice and willing to listen to all.We are not in need of something to keep up with the Jones but something practical.

You are correct, most RVs do use rather "cheap" construction. "Built to cost" has been the standard for many years. There is always a price point for what a middle income person can afford to spend on recreational vehicles. That means materials that are not overly expensive and methods of construction suitable for easy fabrication and installation.


You don't get a bottle of fine wine when you have a beer budget.

[Ice-breaker]

Having never stayed in an RV, I would suggest that Montana Bob spends a few nights in cold weather sleeping in a tent on hard ground, followed by a few nights in a rental RV. That should go a long way towards convincing Bob that RV camping has its perks. He should also go out and look at as many stick built RV's as he can as well as several fiberglass RV makes, and see for himself the differences in quality.

[redbarron55]

Several years ago I bought a project Scamp and spent years rebuilding it from the ground up the meet SHMBO's specifications.
A Scamp 16 with twin beds so that one dod not have to crawl over another in the night.
A wet bath to crawl to.
All electric (except tankless water heater in the tongue) with NO LP in the cabin.
No stove (electric skillet and convection micro wave).
We lie (lay?) in bed at night looking down the 13 foot length and note the space we have.
We have the bedroom, dining room, kitchen, foyer, library, reading room, entertainment room, and just free space.
Not both of us at the same time for everything of course.
If you make a choice you might not be happy, but if you buy used the cost to change is not as high.
Get something you think you will like and try it then you will have an opportunity to decide what works for you and what doesn't.
You might or might not like RVing.
Your idea of what it is right for you is probably not mine.
My own personal plan was to fix up the Scamp and travel the big tour of Yellowstone, glacier, Devils Tower etc and this part we just finished (two months!)
Next we plan to tour the SouthWest, Grand Canyon, Anasazi Ruins etc.
So far this year we have spent over 4 months in the Scamp.
The key is if your wife is not happy with it you won't be either.
My goal was to be able to keep the total costs within budget and a large trailer or motor home would run the fuel costs to the point that any savings on RV parks would be washed out.
So our choice was light and easily towed with van that would be good reasonable economical transportation the rest of the time.
Our Town and Country got close to 17 MPG for the 9200 mile trip.
Connie is happy and so am I

[ZachO]

I'll say it again: Bigfoot

If you're looking for spaciousness, nothing comes close. They're also higher-end construction and materials than Scamp and Casita.

I've never towed another trailer with my truck, but I'm using a small, first generation (98) Tacoma with a little 3.4L V6 engine. Yeah, in a strong headwind, it's no fun. In general I have no problems towing my trailer at my max trailer tire speed of 65mph, with power to spare for passing. On steep mountain passes, which I drive nearly weekly, it's 3rd gear, 45mph with flashers on and power to spare. I just don't like to push the engine rpm too high.

I get 19mpg without the trailer, 14mpg with. Really not too bad. The frontal area (in fact the entire shape/size) is the same as a stick built, which is what is so nice about Bigfoot. If you must have the egg shape, then Bigfoot won't do. But for space, with Bigfoot you get the dimensions of a stick built, but molded fiberglass construction.

They've been around for decades so you've got all sorts of used ones to choose from, as well as new. Mine is a 91 and in overall great shape.

Not saying "you must buy a Bigfoot" but you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to check them out.

[Montana Brad]

Its been interesting posting and reading the comments on this forum.I have learned a little and laughed a lot One thing I have learned is that a couple folks need to rush to the nearest Cosco for an emergency eye exam.
It's Montana Brad-not BOB. Ice melt seems a little
If the poster read close they would see that I have stayed in a stick trailer and a wall tent.I have lived 34 years in Montana for a reason.I did not need an RV. I live it 24 /7.My house is on the edge of the Selway wilderness. Best of both worlds.I have hiked with tents on my back to places most can only dream of.I have two sons who are Eagle scouts because when I was young that is something I did that I wanted to pass on to my children.I have froze my butt off on horse hunts in tents and hunts in stick rv trailers. I have seen and done most things people only dream about or have done little in the outdoors.
There's more but maybe you now can understand better.

Yes I am going to see a Bigfoot among others. There's reason Air Stream now makes a fiberglass trailer!

[ZachO]

I hear you. I hesitate to even call what I do with my trailer "camping".

The access we have to beautiful areas that rival anything in a national park is really just ridiculous. But it's best to keep those places to ourselves for as long as possible, so I don't post about them much.

You may or may not be new to internet forums, but...all of us, myself included, are guilty of jumping to all sorts of conclusions about people, not reading posts carefully enough, giving silly advice to people far more experienced than ourselves, or just generally coming in and pooping on any thread we decide to comment on with negativity and silly statements.

So...you might get used to it. Or not..

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by ZachO

jumping to all sorts of conclusions about people, not reading posts carefully enough, giving silly advice to people far more experienced than ourselves, or just generally coming in and pooping on any thread we decide to comment on with negativity and silly statements.

So, you HAVE been reading my posts!

[ZachO]

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by Montana Brad

I have seen and done most things people only dream about

Bob, even so I would suggest you delay your trip to Oliver for another month or so. The present heat and humidity in middle Tennessee will tax even the manliest of men!

[Mitzi Agnew-Giles]

Something I didn't think I would have to deal with but truths change over time- the LilSnoozy door and interior passage are wide enough for mobility assistants.

[ZachO]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

Bob, even so I would suggest you delay your trip to Oliver for another month or so. The present heat and humidity in middle Tennessee will tax even the manliest of men!

I see your frustration, Brad.

[Willieswonder]

Hey Brad,
Thought I'd weigh in....
My dad gave me a Scamp 13 that started my love for these darn things!! MY daughter and I rebuilt a 13ft Cloud which was a cool project. If you are mechanically inclined this is a GREAT way to get exactly what you want! They are out there. You just have to look.
My wife decided that we needed a bigger camper so we went with a 28ft Jayco stick built... Never again! After 6 years of bouncing down the road that thing was falling apart!
We are now in a (I know not fiberglass pre-mold. Don't yell at me!) 21ft dual axle Winnebago 2100BH. It has fiberglass sides and is VERY well built! We went through alot of campers and we were told by our local camper dealer that all people want anymore is glitz and glamour. They don't care about the actual construction of the unit. I looked this unit over head to toe from my previous experiences and no it's not a Scamp but it fits our needs very well and they build a similar model for 2 people that is VERY nice for around $20k.
The part I really like is it is around 3,000ish pounds dry weight and they put 2 3500 lb axles under it! I don't have to sit and worry about overloading it and long trips nearly as much as I did with the old unit! Most manufacturers push these limits WAY to close!

to everyone yelling it's not a true fiberglass trailer..... We went down 10ish feet and I'm hoping to get the wifey to jump back into a 16 scamp or 19 fifth wheel in another 6 years!!

Good luck on your searches and with an open mind you will come out beautifully!

[Uplander]

I have been in the RV community since 1983.
Since you are new to the RV experience I will share a few items with you.
First start reading about the product...I suggest the free weekly news letter
RVTravel.com. This will greatly increase your knowledge of the product and
the lifestyle in general. It is not sponsored by the RV industry. It supplies real facts not industry propaganda.

As far as the construction of RVs in general....all manufacturers use outside suppliers for refrigerators, water pumps, water heaters, furnaces, lights etc., etc., The same is true of automobile manufacturers and boat manufacturers.
It is the way things are done.

If you take the time to read RVTravel.com you will learn what to inspect in both new and used RVs when making your decision as to what will meet your needs.
There is a giant learning curve...knowledge is power.
You will encounter a massive supply of opinion on most websites like this one.
It is up to you to determine facts from opinion.

Welcome to the RV community and enjoy your journey !
Happy Camping !

[bill&sandra]

[QUOTE=Montana Brad;713941]My wife and I just retired.We have been considering buying an RV for a number of years when we retired.We would like to travel to a warmer place in the winter(not sure where) and living near an northern ocean in the summer.We live in Montana now.We have mostly considered buying a tow behind trailer because we do not want to tow another vehicle behind a Motor Home.

May I suggest looking at this forums used offerings. We are really pleased with our Escape 19’ 2011... Like new condition. We pull with a Honda Ridgeline. It’s got a permanent back bed and convertible dinette area, bath, kitchen. Very nice.