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Old 08-18-2015, 01:02 PM   #61
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Name: RogerDat
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Ummm there is the factor (somewhat circular) of because FGRV's hold their value folks will take bird dropping covered rats nest from next to a barn and restore it to clean, solid, functional camper. Thus putting another old FGRV on the road in such good shape that the value is high. This means old FGRV's go for high prices, which in turn makes the cost of restoring the next barn beauty discovered project shell worth it. And propping up the sale price of the of the shell off the frame restoration project "opportunities".

With an added bonus of having lots of retired skilled trades and professionals that become a knowledge base and resource for restoring the old ones. One thing that I will say a lot of FGRV owners KNOW their trailers construction. How it is built, what weaknesses or quirks it has, how it is wired, plumbed and constructed.
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:36 PM   #62
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The First...the Sunline Travel Trailer...great maker in its day...superior use of space with some great layouts...a leader in light weight trailers...Amish built product..went out of business when the economy went into the tank for our current never ending recession.

Second...the sticky trailer market for travel trailers is dominated by the current number one maker of travel trailers...JAYCO. This is one sharp company....they build travel trailers at all price/quality levels. Their lowest price point is a wood framed (2X3 wall studs) unit with aliminum sides and "rubber membrane type roof". As the price points increase the construction changes to aluminum welded stud construction, high quality fiberglass vacuum formed side panels (note this method is superior to what is called "pinch-roller" formed fiberglass panels).
At all price points you get all the creature comforts (this is where the fiberglass units miss the mark) including A/C, full bathrooms with real showers, well appointed Kitchens and slide outs for extra space. This is what impresses the first time buyers.

JAYCO trailers are also easy to find as the have an excellent dealer network.
They can be found at almost all RV Shows (unlike fiberglass travel trailers that are nearly impossible to find). That is why they are number one....simple marketing 101.

Fact is there are hundreds of thousands of satisfied sticky travel trailer owners out there. There would be more fiberglass travel trailers on the road today if they employed the same dealer networks and proven marketing techniques as the RV industry leaders.

As a retired Sales/Marketing professional the lack of dealer network and poor marketing by the fiberglass trailer manufacturers makes me crazy.

Like Jack Web used to say on Dragnet...."Just the facts, just the facts"
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:54 PM   #63
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I have a friend who has an exceptionally nice Sunline stick built that is about 10 years old. I don't know the model but it is 21' to 22'. I say "exceptionally nice" because she had it restored and professionally redid the interior after she bought it about three years ago and found some leak damage. It is in top condition mechanically, structurally and appearance wise. She full times and has found an older Titanium fifth wheel that she really likes but would need to sell the Sunline in the price range of around $8,000 to do the deal. Send me a pm if interested.
My condolences to your friend with the Sunline.
But this sorta makes the point about FGRV's vs. Sticky's that, after only 7 years the owner had to have it restored due to leaks and redid the interior. A 7 y.o. FGRV is, basically "Like New" and priced about the same as when new.



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Old 08-18-2015, 02:18 PM   #64
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Yes a dealer network is critical to sticky sales at all price points, especially when a large percentage of actual sales are made at 15-25% off of MSRP,s and there is still room for the dealer's commission and costs.


If FGRV makers wanted to work through a dealer network they would have to start by raising MSRP's by at least 50% so they too could be discounted and there still be room for dealer commissions and costs.


The owner of one of the largest Jayco dealerships in the United States is a personal friend of mine and we have discussed this often. He would like to have a line of FGRV's on his lot, but the $$$ just don't work for the marketplace.


BTW: When we bought a sticky for an ex-SIL, he pointed to a different brand than Jayco for us to buy.



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Old 08-20-2015, 11:01 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
Ummm there is the factor (somewhat circular) of because FGRV's hold their value folks will take bird dropping covered rats nest from next to a barn and restore it to clean, solid, functional camper. Thus putting another old FGRV on the road in such good shape that the value is high. This means old FGRV's go for high prices, which in turn makes the cost of restoring the next barn beauty discovered project shell worth it. And propping up the sale price of the of the shell off the frame restoration project "opportunities".

With an added bonus of having lots of retired skilled trades and professionals that become a knowledge base and resource for restoring the old ones. One thing that I will say a lot of FGRV owners KNOW their trailers construction. How it is built, what weaknesses or quirks it has, how it is wired, plumbed and constructed.
Our first trailer was a 12ft stickbuilt 1969 Thorobred. I spent nearly $1500 and several months doing the restoration. it was done in "Route 66" trim, even with matching luggage. People would stop by and compliment it even taking pictures. It was nicely done, everybody liked it(lots of lookers) and after several weeks I finally got a buyer.... For $1600.
I have not bothered with anything which wasn't fiberglass since!
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:59 PM   #66
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People always suggest that Newbies go to a rally to see the various trailers, certainly a good idea. More important is to meet people who are successful, to see what they are like as humans, to see how they look at each other. Are they still feasting on each other, do they smile when they look at their partner?
Norm and Ginny, my wife Kim and I found your post to be refreshing, heartfelt and so true. Your years happy together as well as your outlook is inspiring, thank you for your gift to many of us.

I know we are guilty of two foot-itis and forgetting what it is that really counts, sharing moments with one's partner and leaving all that stuff behind.

Upon retirement in the near future, we initially decided to trade the Scamp 13 for the spaciousness and a bath of an Escape 17. Well we soon found ourselves clamming for the 19 foot model. Then we convinced ourselves that only a 21 footer would make us comfortable and happy travelers. Before we start looking for a 35 foot something or other your advice reminded us of priorities. Kim and I are re-evaluating our needs a lot more thinking about what really matters as we will travel a lot more after retirement. As you wrote, it's us not the length of the camper, but the campers inside that matters.

There is beauty in simplicity and I know we have greatly enjoyed the advantages of a smaller trailer that outweighs giving up having a California King size bed, a larger galley, etc. We have been happy with 13 feet and no bath, 17 feet is still a good compromise, maneuverable, easy to drop off in undeveloped sites and as we have been realizing lately, will be as easy to park at home.

I think that if we decide to become full timers one day, a few more feet would be nice. For now we are reversing ourselves as we plan the purchase of our ideal retirement trailer, the one we will use as we enter old age. Your advice came just in time before we talk ourselves into a 35 foot behemoth.

Thank you for your post.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:16 PM   #67
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Santiago and Kim,

There's a best size for everyone. My suggestion would be that bouncing between sizes is fine if you have time to spend on regularly reconfiguring your trailer and of course the funds to do it. Very often it's not just changing your trailer but also changing your tow vehicle.

It's best to target what you need and/or want.

We're satisfied where we are in our Scamp. The reality we've been satisfied in every RV even our 32 foot RV. I'm reading a book An Imperfect Life, she frequently write of the internal journey. The more I think about our extended RVing it's all so much more than the rig... though there's no harm in being comfortable.

As to a King bed, in northern Maine the suggestion of a king bed would be grounds for divorce. All that space must mean you want multiple partners, which may be OK but not all at once. (Seriously I love northern Maine and they are wonderful people.)
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:21 PM   #68
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Norm and Ginny, I like your sense of humor.
We don't own a King size bed so I guess our marriage is safe for now ; > )
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:16 PM   #69
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Norm's posts are truly one of the delights of this forum for me for the truths about life they provide. We all can get caught up in the trappings of the world. Even if you consider yourself a non-materialistic person, it's hard to not be affected by "stuff" or occasionally pine for things.

To know the love that Norm and Ginny share is pinnacle to that, and they are blessed to have each other. They have found happiness in each other and everything else is a tributary to that first most important body of water.

Whatever trailer you decide upon, don't worry what others think. I believe that the trailer we are happiest with is the one that is an expression of the love we have for ourselves. It makes you smile. In my case as a single gal, I yearn to live that expression with another human being. But I still wake up in my 10 feet of space inside my scamp and feel like the luckiest girl in the world. To those of you with husbands/wives, the relationship that you nurture will find fruition in a trailer just perfect for you.

If it ends up being a 32 foot behemoth as you say, then so be it! Enjoy! When I walk my dog and an older couple is sitting in front of one of those $200,000+ motor homes or what have you, and they're holding hands or reading the paper together over their mornings coffee, I think to myself...now that's precious.


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Old 08-27-2015, 09:43 PM   #70
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I started out with a stick 18 years ago. Went through a truck camper, tag along, three 5ers, two FG and now back to a stick 24' 5er. FG difinantly hold their value but sticks just plain have more room. If you have a storage to keep a stick in it will last but does loose value. We simply went back to a stick because we are planning to do some camp ground hosting and just needed more room and storage. It's not what you camp in its that you enjoy the camping experience.
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:09 AM   #71
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That is true Papa-T. It's what works for you while camping that brings greater peace or comfort to the experience. For some, this is a TV and satellite dish. For others, it's a solar panel while boondocking.

Topping the list is the folks you're with and the relationships you grow. As I believe Donna D. writes, "make memories."


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Old 08-28-2015, 07:18 AM   #72
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Make Memories.

Something I'm not particularly good at specific memories. Memories can be triggered by a comment, or event, even possibly a statement. Ginny she's loaded with memories, keeping them all in detail. When I need a revisitation, I go to her. Ginny says we have a shared memory. I'm better with the afterglow, the good feeling when some one mentions a place we've been, a thing we've done.

Our fiberglass trailers may be small compared to other types of RVs, but what I've learned is that the RV is just a physical space. The new mental space of traveling, of escaping, of getting away, is relatively infinite. I've come to recognize that the mental part of us is more important than the physical space.

For many of us the physical dominates what and why we live, our job, home, the things we buy, maybe even the size of our RV. As we've traveled the value of the physical has diminished. As we get rid of our 30 year home and 50 years of possessions, I recognize what's really valuable. The valuable is little that we've bought or paid for.

I love our trailer and love to show it to others, it's tiny space is the vehicle for making memories, expanded thinking, growing our relationship and escaping to ourselves.
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Old 08-28-2015, 09:45 AM   #73
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If the 17ft. Casita was not big enough to accommodate, and you thought the larger FGRVs were too expensive brand new, and you never could find a decent one used, would you go to say a ~20ft Travel Trailer or even a class C, even if it were stick built? I realize they are relatively cheap for a reason, and would tend to leak more, but if it meant getting on the road fulltime, would you still make a go of it? Afterall, the goal is to go full time here, everyone does it a different way.
I would consider a vintage Airstream that had been totally redone from the bottom up if considering something other than a Fiberglass trailer.

But then again if I was going to be full timing I would most probable look for a used Escape 19' with the extra thermal package - could probable get two of those for the cost of the redone vintage Airstream and I would not need to worry to much about future leakage.
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:48 PM   #74
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Because of some medical issues with my better half I am selling my Casita and bought a 25 ft mini lite. I also came to another realization , from now to 25 years from now I want care what what the resale is of my camper .
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:24 PM   #75
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Ron, I don't plan on selling my Scamp 16, hence the re-sale value is not a consideration. However the re-sale value is an indication of the inherent strength of fiberglass trailers.

Good luck with your new trailer.
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:36 PM   #76
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Norm
I think we are saying the same thing about resale ,it just doesnt matter at our age.
The trailer I bought is aluminium and foam and fiberglass no wood . so it should be pretty tough .
The brand , size or make doesnt matter as long as it makes my better half still able to travel.
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