16 foot long kayaks on top of TV

[mary and bob]

What kind of camping are you looking to do. Probably near water because of the kayaks. Close to home or distance away. Nice teardrop based rally in the Adirondaks early June, at Fish Creek Pond, all sites on the water. Open to all campers, there have been Scamps attend, plus popups, travel trailers, and tents. We will be taking our teardrop there, later going to Rocky Neck with our Uhaul.

[VicCT]

Bob, we love fish creek pond! Camped there last year, great paddling. When is that rally? I am traveling for work June 1-4, but could maybe do the next weekend.

[mary and bob]

June 6 &7, sent you a PM with details

[VicCT]

OK folks, here is the promised update re: long kayaks on a tow vehicle.

We towed the Scamp with a 16+ foot canoe a couple of weeks ago up to Lake Francis State Park in New Hampshire, near the Canadian border. Our first trip out of state. It towed just fine, but the canoe was a bit close to the Scamp - - only about 8-10 inches away. Since it was centered, it was not a problem.

We are preparing for a kayaking trip to coastal Maine, and so tonight we finally dragged a 16 foot kayak out of storage to see how it fit on the RAV4 with the Scamp hooked up. We didn't tie it up, just popped the kayak up on the rack to see how it looked. Well, there was plenty of clearance. It will be just fine with two kayaks up there, even my 16.5 footer.

The difference is that the kayaks comfortably sit a little more forward than the canoe did, and also sit quite a bit higher. The back end of the canoe, upside down, curves downward and hangs low, while the rear of the kayak slopes upward in the same direction as the curve of the rounded top front of the Scamp. I hope that makes sense.

I have Yakima Rail Grabber rack towers on my RAV4's factory roof rails, with Yakima cross bars, so my rack sits higher than the factory rack and the front rail can be adjusted quite far forward. This all helps.

I don't have photos to share, but will get some while we are Scamping in Maine next week.

Also, regarding towing - - the 2008 RAV4 with a V6 and tow prep package tows great. I won't say you don't know the trailer is there, but I never feel like it is struggling, except one time that it downshifted a little when going up a very steep hill - - not a problem, just a little downshift. I have not needed a weight distribution hitch, air bags for the rear shocks, or sway bar, since it really tows great without, and our hitch installer said we just don't need it after driving it himself and seeing how the trailer sits. The nose sits just a little forward on the trailer - - perfect - - and the back of the car is not too low. We did remove one of the propane tanks from front, so our hitch weight is down, and we really don't carry much in the trailer other than very lightweight kitchenware, a few food items, 2 folding chairs, blankets/pillows, and Scamp tools/chocks/etc. Everything else in the RAV. We might put a few more things in the Scamp when we have the kayaks on, though, just to reduce the overall cargo weight in the RAV.

The side opening rear door on the RAV cannot be fully opened with the trailer on, but it can be partially opened, and this has not been a big problem.

The new brakes on the Scamp and brake controller in the RAV also work really well, just needed to be adjusted on the way home from our long trip.

So, we are on our way to having it all! I will let you know how the trip with the kayaks goes.

[Gene Masse]

Has anybody thought of or tried inflatable kayaks? I have been looking at this one sold at Walmart and other stores including Cabelas.

Get the Sea Eagle 330 Inflatable Kayak at an always low price from Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

This unit gets good reviews and can be packed up an stored in our T.V's.
Seems more logical to go this route.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Gene Masse

Has anybody thought of or tried inflatable kayaks? I have been looking at this one sold at Walmart and other stores including Cabelas.

If you hate yourself, you might enjoy paddling one of those. A decent kayak or canoe costs at least ten times as much as that.
I paid $1,600 for my canoe some 15 years ago, and it was a "factory second" ( cosmetic blemishes ).
Paddling a canoe is one of the great pleasures of life, but like any other tool, it needs to be designed for the job.

[JRTrillium]

Hello Folks,

We did our first practice camp last month with our new to us Trillium. Our kayaks are 14.5 feet and they did not interfere at all with the trailer. I am going to load my friend's 16 foot kayak and see how it does. We may stay with what we've got.

We had to put our two bikes inside the trailer. Something we are not keen on doing and are working on a different idea. Problem is the previous owner welded a tool box to the bumper of the trailer. I suppose it can be removed to put a bike rack?

The camp was a great success!!! The Ford Escape pulled it perfectly. The trailer bounces quite a bit over the campground speed bumps. When we got to our site all the curtains had fallen down. If that's the worst that happens I am thrilled.

I am attaching a photo. We are anxious to get out again.

[VicCT]

Gene, we have nice rotomolded plastic (not really really nice fiberglass) 16 foot single sea kayaks with all the gear. These boats are capable of paddling through serious waters. Part of our reason for traveling with the Scamp is to use them. While there are some really nice inflatable kayaks, they are quite expensive. Given that we already have boats that do what we want and meet our needs, it doesn't make sense for us to start over.

[VicCT]

JR, that is a sweet setup. I was thinking we would put my bike in the trailer (it's the nicer one) and my partners in the back of the tow vehicle on top of all the camping gear. But two bikes fit ok inside the trailer? How did you do it, one laid out on the bed and one standing on the floor, wheel removed?

I would caution you against the bike rack. My Scamp came with a hitch, but looking around here on older posts, most people get a lot of sway with bikes on the back of the smaller trailers. They just don't weigh enough to counter the weight on the back. Our friends who store our Scamp for us took it to the beach last weekend with their kids. The dad put a bike rack on our Scamp's hitch, unbeknownst to us, and found he had some serious sway and had to slow down a lot when it got windy on his way back. I asked him not to do that again. :-) He was raised on a farm and towing is second nature to him, but he did not anticipate the level of sway he had.

Our trailer/hitch guy told us that a bike rack on the back of one of these Scamps is a bad, bad idea. Our trailers are just too light, and the hitch really isn't made to bear much weight anyway. He has a Scamp 16 and he would never do it, said he has heard of too many accidents caused by this, and he sells camping trailers. He said even 5,000 pound trailers can sway because of a bike rack.

If you are determined, I would ensure you have more tongue weight on first and get an anti-sway bar. Your trailer seems to sit a bit high at the nose already, although it could just be the angle?

[JRTrillium]

Thank you, VicCT !! It's quite sweet to us as well I am so surprised the bike rack is not a good idea on the Trillium. Darn. Rick and I each have mountain bikes. We stood them up in the trailer on the floor, side by side, and put a heavy comforter on top to cushion a fall damaging the bikes and/or the trailer. They did end up leaning - like I said, speed bumps going into the national parks. However, nothing at all was damaged.

Our kayaks are the plastic ones. We paddle lakes, rivers bays and coastlines. Our lakes are peppered with rocks!!! I have bumped many of them and breathe a sigh of relief they are plastic.

So, to finalize, you caution against a bike rack. Would the effect be the same on the Trillium as the Scamp? Maybe the Scamp is lighter? Just hoping . . . as we love to take both bikes and kayaks with us when we hit the road.

Janice

[VicCT]

Janice, the weight of the trillium is about the same so yes, I think the effect would be the same. You might be able to balance things out with added tongue weight and a sway bar, but my trailer guy said he still wouldn't do it, as you are essentially creating a see saw effect with weight on both ends. If you were to get into a situation on the road requiring quick maneuvering, you could be in trouble. To me it is a risk not worth taking. I tend to be conservative about safety issues though, my dad was in risk management. :-)

You could have a bike rack welded to your hitch, over the battery. Floyd, a member on here, had that done. If you are not close to your limit on tongue weight, that would be a much more stable solution. I can't do it because the spare tire on my RAV would interfere, so i will have to put the bikes in the trailer and/or tow vehicle.

[VicCT]

I would like to devise a system for carrying one bike on the front sofa using tie downs and bungee cords to stabilize it, and the other on the floor or maybe laid across the bed with a tarp in between, also secured with tie downs. One thing I am trying to figure out is how to add tie down points to the inside. And advice on that welcome!

[MCDenny]

We carried our two full sized bikes inside the Snoozy for two winters. This worked fine with a couple of wood mounts I made up but was kind of a PITA to pack / unpack and blocked access to 2/3 of the trailer. We tired of the hassle and started thinking about leaving the bikes home but our bike knowledgeable son suggested folding bikes.

Turns out they come in many shapes, sizes and prices. We got 20" 8 speed Tern D8's for about $700. Folding is faster than removing our finger-less bike gloves and two of them take up just half of the cargo area of the Jeep. They ride a little differently but are fine once you get used to them. A bonus is they live in the back of Jeep so are always protected from the weather and potential felons.

[VicCT]

OK folks, here is our rig. In this photo, the RAV and Scamp are turned at a bit of an angle from each other, so the yak looks a little closer than when they are straight.The yak you can see is the longer one at 16.5 feet, there is another behind it that is a foot shorter that is sort of blocked in the photo.

The ride from where we store the Scamp and the yaks went fine. Plenty of room between the two. Glad I was worried about nothing.

I bought a new 10x10 canopy, which is riding on the front sofa, and my bike is lying on a tarp on the bed, bungeed to one of the kitchen wrought iron support bars, the table support on the back wall, and a steel loop the prior owner already added to the side of the closet. Seems secure. Chairs, stove, patio rug and battery lantern under the bed. A few kitchen items in the cabs. Portalet under the sofa. Top bunk removed. Clothing duffels on the floor, mainly to keep things from sliding out from under the bed. Kayaking equipment, kitchen items, and coolers in the RAV.

We are off to coastal Maine - - a small campground near Rockland with hookups and then off the grid in Acadia. Will report back at the end of our trip!

[JRTrillium]

VicT, that is wonderful!!!! I look forward to seeing your photos on return. We are planning a few days camp at Glen Margaret , south shore of Nova Scotia close to Peggy's Cove. Will be kayaking the area and biking as well !!

Good luck on your first camp

[JRTrillium]

Ummm. . . . do you have tie downs on your kayaks? A friend of mine did not tie his down and a strong wind lifted the front of the boats right off his car, and lifted the rack as well - damaging his new vehicle. We now tie ours down all the time when we go out.

ooops just saw it when I enlarged your photo - sorry about that!!

[VicCT]

Do you just mean front and back tie downs? Because I can't imagine driving around without even side straps tying down the yaks.

In any case, ours are always strapped down at the cross bars/rail grabbers with cinching straps. We tie them in front to a screw-in tow hook/loop. In the back we took off the spare tire cover and tied them to the tire. We are cruising along 290 now and everything is secure. We check at every stop.

[VicCT]

As for the whole rack flying off, that's why one has to pay attention to load limits on the racks. And secure front tie downs (not just tied to a plastic bumper or grill) would certainly help in that situation. With sea kayaks, they can catch a lot of air up front.

[JRTrillium]

Just returned from another three day camp at Keji. Now that we have the Trillium the camps are just not long enough. It is amazing how much storage space we have in that little camper!!!

[VicCT]

Welcome home! We just returned from a week on the Maine coast. Loving our Scamp! And the kayaks did fine on the Rav4, no problems at all with being too close to the Scamp while towing.