1979 Burro - Electric brakes

[Dave Mac]

Ok ... Same ole Burro new topic ELECTRIC BRAKES
The 79 Burro I just got has electric brakes I am told. I see a loose wire down there I need to figure out I guess. Pluss if indeed it does have electric brakes I guess I need some type of controler for my Jeep.
If I do have electric brakes where and what will I see for wiring to them?
What type of controler should I concider for use with my Jeep?
And I suppose I best open up the wheels and take a look inside to insure I am all good in there too. Hmmm... What kind of brake pads am I going to find in there?
Hey! It's picture time!...

[Brian B-P]

That certainly looks like a hub with a brake drum; the part which doesn't turn with the drum, and has the wires sticking out of it, is the brake backing plate (where are the brake hardware is mounted).

The wiring at each wheel is just what you see - one pair of wires from each backing plate, connected to the magnet inside. It looks like someone just cut them off and removed at least some of the wiring leading to them; other people have found the same thing on the trailers which they have bought used.

The magnets are wired together in parallel, with one wire of each pair going to the "ground" pin of the connector to the tow vehicle (normally a white wire), and the other wire of each pair going to the brake (not brake light) pin of the connector (normally a blue wire). There should also be a breakaway switch added to connect your trailer battery to the brakes if the trailer becomes disconnected while towing. Any or all of this could be missing, but it is easily added.

I suggest a search for the keywords "+brake +controller" (finds topics with both "brake" and "controller") in this forum... but the quick summary is to look for a proportional controller.

The brake shoes in a trailer setup are basically like those in a car's drum brakes... the whole thing is like the rear drum brakes of a car, but with a magnet on an arm instead of hydraulic slave cylinder (and missing the parking brake lever).

[Pete Dumbleton]

Indeed, those are brakes.

Presuming your axle does not need replacement, here's my recommdation (what I would do if I were you, but I'm not, so YMMV!):

1. Put it up on jacks, pull one wheel, remove brake plate w/shoes, springs, magnets. Take it into RV shop or go on line and order two (L & R) entire brake plates w/hardware. Then you are starting with all new components and the usual length of connecting wire on the magnets. These should be 7" brakes, not 10", and are not as common, so on-line would be best.

2. Shop around on-line for a Prodigy controller by Tekonsha and a breakaway brake switch (even if you already have one it is likely to be in questionable condition) plus download all the pertinent PDFs from Tekonsha for installing each. Even if you decide not to use Tekonsha, the PDFs may be quite useful.

3. Find the wiring in your trailer harness that should be there for the old brake wiring and put it in good shape. You may have to run new wiring and you may have to change the connector back to a big one (7 pin Bargman/Pollack recommended as relatively standard in RV world).

4. Install the controller in tow vehicle. Consider installing trailer battery recharge wire. Put auto-reset circuit breakers on each.

5. If all of the above is beyond your ability or inclination, take it to a couple of RV shops and ask for estimates.

If your axle needs replacement, then order a new one e/w brakes.

Strip the brake drums/hubs off the old axle and sell them on this forum because they are the most expensive piece-parts of retrofitting brakes (getting new stuf on a new axle is relatively inexpensive).

Duuhh! On egit, I see from a careful second look at the photo that the wires are right there, still looking like their original length (blue crimp connector on the end of one).

What I would do is get the controller, hook up all the wiring and see if they work. Of course, you will be taking the wheel apart to check and regrease the bearings anyway...

[Dave Mac]

Thanks much Pete and Brian for your replys and help. This us great info for me as a newbe to all this. Is it wasn't 108 degrees outside right now I might consider tearing into thes drums to have a look. But it will need to wait untill it is cooler.
Thanks
Dave

[Brian B-P]

Well, now that's I've seen more of the wiring, I would assume that all wires and connectors which are associated with the brakes should be replaced. That's really not very many pieces, and the bits of stuff hanging under the trailer in the photo are definitely not good enough for brakes on anything I'm willing to drive; even if they're not the brake wires, wiring in this unit is definitely suspect. Think of it as a good learning opportunity...

[Herb P]

Well, now that's I've seen more of the wiring, I would assume that all wires and connectors which are associated with the brakes should be replaced. That's really not very many pieces, and the bits of stuff hanging under the trailer in the photo are definitely not good enough for brakes on anything I'm willing to drive; even if they're not the brake wires, wiring in this unit is definitely suspect. Think of it as a good learning opportunity...

Whoa, Brian. He's got himself a bare wire going through a rusty sharp steel hole.. That's got to be good for at least _one_ if not _two_ impromptu roadside stops next to some farmers field in WTFAMI, Manitoba... This is all about making memories and that wiring is just waiting to accomodate.

You also just can't beat those unprotected splices there... I'm seeing 4 hours of sitting on a cooler at the side of the road in the blazing sun with a swarm of horse flies...

Those memories are not gonna make themselves.

[Roger H]

He's got himself a bare wire going through a rusty sharp steel hole..

You also just can't beat those unprotected splices there...

That is factory wiring and unless there's something we can't see in the photos, I don't see anything wrong with it. I see nothing exposed, and those "unprotected" splices can also last the life of the axle provided that the wiring to which they're crimped doesn't corrode. Granted, there's better stuff out there now, but in 1979 they were what was used.

Dave, I'm with Pete. Hook it up and see if they work. They may need to be lubed and adjusted after all these years, but you've got nothing to lose but a little time by giving them a try.

Roger

[Herb P]

That is factory wiring and unless there's something we can't see in the photos, I don't see anything wrong with it. I see nothing exposed, and those "unprotected" splices can also last the life of the axle provided that the wiring to which they're crimped doesn't corrode. Granted, there's better stuff out there now, but in 1979 they were what was used.

The "factory" generally did shoddy work with no attention paid to longevity... an unsecured wire going through a steel hole with sharp edges on a part of the trailer that moves with every bump in the road isn't 'ok'. Copper exposed to the elements for 30 years is probably already corroded and is going to lead to an intermittent connection sooner or later. If I'm relying on my trailer brakes to apply reliably and evenly on a steep descent, then an intermittent connection on one wheel is not "ok". I have 2 30 year old vehicles that have had intermittent electrical problems. On many occasions, I've pulled apart a factory splice where the copper was black with corrosion and barely making contact anymore... To repair the splice, you strip more insulation off and the corrosion goes an inch or more into the insulation... Electrical tape, as much as I hate it, goes a long way to prolonging the longevity of a connection exposed to the elements. I prefer self-fusing tape or heat-shrink tubing over electrical tape. I buy heat-shrink crimp fittings and use those when crimping connections that are going to be exposed.

Yuri's wife woke up at 6:30AM to the smell of a burning refrigerator in their 1300. The fault was a factory wire that had chafed over the years... It would have been my family this happened to on our next camping trip if they had not bought the trailer from me.

[MyronL]

I don't see any copper exposed to the elements or any sharp edges or corrodead wires.

[Brian B-P]

I was referring to the wires hanging loosely under the trailer, ready to catch on something, connected with non-sealed splice taps. They are very small gauge and they go through the floor, so I realize that they are likely quite unrelated to the brakes... but I do take them as an indication of the quality of attention paid to wiring on this unit by a previous owner.

I sincerely hope that this is not factory work (although it may be), and I would bet that the connections are corroded, but likely still minimally functional. Insulation-displacing tap connectors are somewhat self-sealing; look for them on your car, and I don't think you'll find any installed by the factory - they're not good enough.

The condition of the actual brake wiring is unknown, since none is apparent to me in the photos (other than the cut-off ends of the magnet wires). Maybe it's fine... but then why was it cut off?

When I bought my Boler I had a local RV shop do an "annual check". In the process they identified scored drums and magnets, and I let them replace the brake components; as a result, the connections of the magnets to the stock wiring were new, done by them. When I set up my controller, only one brake (the right side) worked. When I traced the wiring, I found that the problem was not the new (left side) connection, but somewhere in the original wiring, which I found to be full of corroded connections. I replaced the wiring.

I would hook up the original wiring, to see if the brakes work; however, I would also be prepared for the possibility that it all needs replacement... which still isn't a big deal.

While I try to express my thoughts about original construction of these trailers more delicately than Herb, I generally concur with his assessments. If you passed grade 8, you can most likely construct better brake wiring than the original; as the person in the vehicle attached to the trailer, you are certainly more motivated to do so.

[Roger H]

The "factory" generally did shoddy work with no attention paid to longevity...

That being the case, it's a wonder there are any 30 year old trailers left at all. I suspect that Dexter, Al-Ko, Henschen and the thousands of folks who own twenty year old or older axles with working brakes would disagree.

I had a 1953 Airstream Flying Cloud that had the original brake wiring that was perfectly sound. Merely that Dave's brake wiring was done in 1979 isn't necessarily reason to replace it. It is a good reason to inspect it. Inspection may prove replacement necessary, but it is entirely possible that it needs no attention at all.

Roger

[Mary F]

Dave has legitimate concerns and a repair project going here.

He has requested that this topic be reopened. (He even said "pretty please.")

Please be respectful and disagree (if you must) with civility.

[Dave Mac]

Dave has legitimate concerns and a repair project going here.
He has requested that this topic be reopened. (He even said "pretty please.")
Please be respectful and disagree (if you must) with civility.

Thanks Mary.

I am learning a lot from these guys.

So heres a few bad pictures I took today. I stopped short of removing the cotter pin and nut holding the brake drum in place and the pictures aren’t great mainly because it was 108 DEGREES OUTSIDE!

[Greg A]

Dave,

My wiring looked pretty close to your #4 pic when I started my Scamp renovation in February. This is what it looks like now:





I'd say a complete rewiring job looks to be in order.
Some folks use fuse panels, as you can see in the pic I chose to put the different circuits on inline fuse holders and used wiring blocks to make sense out of the jungle.

[MyronL]

Here's what I saw when I removed the wheel hub of my '81 13ft Burro. I chose not to do anything about the brakes on mine because I thought they were a luxury, plus, had too many other issues to deal with. Had snipped wiring similar to yours. However I did replace both bearings with new. So far, after a couple years, have not felt a need to re-install brakes. My tow, a '92 Explorer, handles things quite well.

As for the other wiring....well, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[pjanits]

My wires were cut short too and as I was rewiring I came to the conclusion that the wires were strung tight across and a large bump moved that swing arm and sliced the wires.
So leave a loop somewhere.

[Dave Mac]

Some folks use fuse panels, as you can see in the pic I chose to put the different circuits on inline fuse holders and used wiring blocks to make sense out of the jungle.

Very nice looking. I would like to see mine looking this way also. I like the wiring blocks and fuse holder idea. Neat and efficient.

Dave

[Dave Mac]

Here's what I saw when I removed the wheel hub of my '81 13ft Burro. I chose not to do anything about the brakes on mine because I thought they were a luxury,

i on the other hand fell I will want the brakes for sure. From here to camping is all up hill. And fairly steep incline at that. So coming back I want trailer brakes. My tow vehical for now is my 1993 Jeep Wrangler. I realy got to get these working soon or I'm gona miss using the Burro this year. Despite what it looks like I want to get it up in the woods and try it out.
Dave

[Dave Mac]

Ok question.... What's a new axle with brakes cost?

[Dave Mac]

Also.. How can I test my brakes as they are now. I have the 2 wires sticking out the back of the hub and I can get 12volt from battery to them. Is there a way to test them or is straight 12volts to much?