2013 or 14 Subaru Outback 2.5L CVT

[MC1]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

I would like to wait for the 2.2 diesel from mazda now that would be the best for towing i just hope we get it before Im to old to use it ?

A Mazda with the diesel sounds like a real nice TV.
Also.... apparently the Jetta diesels are available in NA right now and have some amazing capabilities when the set up is right.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

Is that 200lb tongue weight for real??? It must be a typo. Hard to believe a 3,500lb crossover vehicle is labeled so low.

Yes 200lbs is the tongue limit & Subaru does not recommend the use of a WDH. Its the #1 reason my Outback has been retired from towing and why I suggest people stick to a 13' with only on propane tank if they want to tow with an Outback.

and NO it does not have a tow cap of 3500lbs.
The standard Outback 2.5 which the OP asked about has a towing cap for 2014 of only 2700lbs. The 3.6 has a tow cap of 3000lbs but still only 200lbs on the tongue - which would be ok pulling something such as a boat.

Subaru also introduced a diesel Outback on the other side of the big pond this year, so perhaps we may see on in NA in the not to distant future.

[BlueBug]

I have a 2014 Subaru OB with the 2.5 CVT combination. I had a 2013, which was demolished by my ex wife, so have a total combined of about 20,000 miles on this year model, and this is my fifth Subaru, fourth new.

Some of the complaints I've read about slow acceleration with the CVT may be attributable to pre-breakin cars. There is a definite breakin period with Subarus, and it appears to be about 2500 miles before the full power capability, as well as the "driving memory" in the CVT and engine computers acclimate to the driver's style. This has been confirmed to me by two service advisors at top Subaru dealerships and my own experience. Both my 2014, which has 5000 miles and the wrecked 2013, which went out of service at 13000 miles, have plenty of power and both have the rear suspension with heavier anti sway bar, firmer shocks etc which started in 2013. Factory spec is 2700 lbs tow capacity with 200 lb hitch weight.

That said, I've pretty well decided on a 16 foot Casita which weighs at 1970-2185 dry weight, and 215 to 255 lbs "approximate" hitch weight. I'm guessing the hitch weight can be lightened by shifting the propane to the back bumper and rear-loading any provisions, waiting till arrival at the campground to fill the water tank, etc. I will be traveling light, with one companion, one or two bicycles and weekend provisions, and intend to remain within a couple of hundred miles of home for the most part. I may travel longer distances alone. So, all totaled, laden weight for the car and trailer combined might go up by 500-600 lbs including the two people, belongings and provisions. That 500-600 lbs can be distributed either in the car or the trailer or both.

The factory rep has told me they have had plenty of experience with the OB without difficulty towing the 16 foot models. I can't, however, find much if any information from owners about their direct experience using 2013 or 14 OB's to tow a Casita.

If anyone out there has direct experience with the later model OB and a 16 foot Casita would you please post a reply to this? I'd like to find out if the OB really is suitable, how stable it is, fuel economy, how the CVT does, etc.

Thanks

[Carol H]

Well I can add a couple of points here. Check the Real World Thread in regards to what a Casita will actually weigh on the tongue. Having spent 5/6 years towing with an Outback with a 2800lb tow cap and a 200lb tongue weight limit I can tell you that keeping the tongue weight low & achieving a solid stow isn't as easy as you think it will be even on the lighter overall Scamp 16' side bath.

Also I have owned a few Outbacks previously as well as the first Legacy wagon and none have had to have the level of repairs the current Outback has had over the last year or so with only 60,000 miles on it. The list was becoming pretty long of items never replaced on previous Outbacks that did not tow but had more milage on them. Retired it from towing earlier this year as a result of those repair issues, sadly not soon enough as the head gasket went on it shortly after - add another $2200 to the over and above regular maintenance issues ....

[steve dunham]

I towed a 16 ft Scamp SD with bath for several years and never got my Scamps tongue weight down to anywhere near 200 lbs . I too traveled with one companion ,one tank of propane , minimal water and our total trailer weight was still between 2500 & 2600 lbs . At a point you can only pack so light before you start leaving necessities at home . As an example= We live in a cold climate state so we carried clothes for our weather conditions and everything adds to your total weight. Our current Casita trailer has a listed tongue weight of 365 lbs but the actual tongue weight is between 425 and 450 lbs.

[BlueBug]

Hi Carol H

I checked both the post replies you sent. The Escape is about $3000 base price higher than a better equipped Casita, and though I am not certain, I think import duties would be required. I prefer to buy an American built product, and the floor plans and features don't work for me anyway.

I'm sorry you had bad experiences with Subarus. I have never had a single problem since switching to Subarus in 2007, and my experience is pretty typical. They are seeing sales increases exceeding 20% per year consecutively for the last several years, for good reason, and are now selling nearly half a million cars per year in the US. In my experience they are simply outstanding cars in every way and the best price/value around. The head gasket and cam belt problems were resolved long ago (they now have cam chains). Like any car they require proper maintenance, and with proper maintenance they wear very well. I have no experience with models prior to 2007, when, as I've read pretty widely, head gasket and cam chain problems were pretty typical.

Thanks for your comments just the same.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by BlueBug

The factory rep has told me they have had plenty of experience with the OB without difficulty towing the 16 foot models. I can't, however, find much if any information from owners about their direct experience using 2013 or 14 OB's to tow a Casita.

Maybe the factory rep could put you in touch with some of those folks who've been towing the 16er with an Outback. I'm skeptical, frankly, given Casitas' well known tendency to be tongue heavy, and the Outback's longstanding 200 pound weight bearing capacity at the ball. That's your real limiter, you know...stability requirements are going to limit how much you can reduce trailer tongue-to-total weight ratio without committing to driving at slower-than-normal speeds.

The Casita rep might be thinking of the 13er, though even that model can be a bit heavy on the tongue, depending of course on floor plan. Here's a link to a discussion at the Subaru Outback forums, which discussion features input from our very own "McBrew", who relates his experience towing a Scamp 13. That forum might be a better place to post this question- you might at least get responses from folks who've tried to tow bigger trailers with the Outback, whether or not they're fiberglass.

[BlueBug]

Thanks Francesca....very helpful link

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by BlueBug

I prefer to buy an American built product

Like Subaru.

[BlueBug]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Like Subaru.

Yep, built in Lafayette, Indiana, right here:

home

3700 American jobs.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by BlueBug

Yep, built in Lafayette, Indiana, right here:

home

3700 American jobs.

Touche!

Your move, Glenn!

[Glenn Baglo]

I figured I'd be walking into that.
Point is, we have a world wide economy and a lot of the parts for Subaru come from elsewhere, just as a lot of the parts for an Escape come from elsewhere, and mostly I think from the U.S.
Think furnace, fridge, water heater, water pump, converter, axles. Do the U.S. workers that make those not need jobs too?

[BlueBug]

Very few people know that the Outback, Legacy and Tribeca are all built here. Subaru has been building in Indiana since the 90's and have one of the most modern factories in the United States there. It's a very interesting story. So, no touche intended to Glenn....as Joe Friday used to say "Just the facts, ma'am."

I wanted to buy an American built car, but with the reliability, fuel economy, safety and recall problems the big 3 have had, nothing was suitable. I'm interested in supporting American jobs but I'm not willing to sacrifice safety, reliability, quality or design. The OB was perfect and is the best car I've ever had, bar none.

One of my Subarus was a 2009 Forester. Nice enough car, built in Japan. I switched to the Outback because it drives so much better, is much roomier and gets much better gas mileage real world (26 city, 33-36 highway, real world in the 2014 Outback versus 20-22 in the 2009 Forester).

The Indiana built cars are far superior to the Japan built product, both in terms of build quality and finish work. I don't know if there is any reliability difference, but I've had three from the Indiana factory and they were all outstanding.

[BlueBug]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I figured I'd be walking into that.
Point is, we have a world wide economy and a lot of the parts for Subaru come from elsewhere, just as a lot of the parts for an Escape come from elsewhere, and mostly I think from the U.S.
Think furnace, fridge, water heater, water pump, converter, axles. Do the U.S. workers that make those not need jobs too?

I actually research content percentage of most big ticket things I buy. Subaru has very high US built content even when compared with the US big 3. I think the factory link talks about it - it's really quite high, well above 70%. Electronics, fabrics, low end plastics, tires, those will all come from overseas regardless of brand. I believe Subaru builds the CVT's and engines here, along with pretty much everything else except some suspension components.

As you say it's a global economy. For me higher US jobs content definitely influences but it's not the end of the question entirely. Some things just aren't built here anymore, and with some things overseas quality is so much higher there just isn't any competition. Balance can come by working with and patronizing companies that onshore jobs and local contenting purchases in general.

[Francesca Knowles]

And presumably, Richard, you've chosen the Casita for much the same reasons, however incomprehensible those reasons may be to certain, shall we say, "Fan Clubs".

I myself have a distinct prejudice against all-wood-product interiors in fiberglass trailers and thus would never consider buying an Escape.

Each to his/her own!

[BlueBug]

You raise a good point.

The main attraction, irrespective of origin country, about the Casita is the layout and size. The 16 foot Spirit is perfect for our needs. Secondly, they seem to have a good reputation - local RV dealers with other products recommend them as superior to their own wares, which is interesting. Third they seem to hold their value quite well, which says a lot. The all FG interiors like the Egg brand are too sterile. Casita appeared to be a good balance.

Actually based on your recommendation I'm looking at the Trillium now too. There is a ~500 pound weight difference. I've written to them to get some more information about the 4500 series. With some modification, the 4500 FS might work (that is, if a bunk bed could be hung over the main dinette/bed.) Just wasn't aware of the brand. If you have any input about the Trillium let me know.

Thanks

[Francesca Knowles]

Trillium is (once again) in transition- in the years since the name/brand was reintroduced it's been produced by several subcontractors (Escape, Mattman Global) as well as (most recently) in a self-run facility in Arizona. Owner Tom Young has in the last few months entered into a relationship with Great West Vans late of Winnipeg but moving even as we speak to Alabama. Great West has an excellent reputation as a producer of quality products; here's hoping this proves to be the best match yet.

I don't know whether sales will be factory-only or through a dealer network.

That said:

I see you're in Washington State- there's actually an outlet in Tualatin Oregon that sells Trilliums, these I believe some of the last to come out of the Arizona factory. They list a 4500 right now as being available- $18,000.00. Sure might be worth a jaunt to the Portland area for a look-see! Link to ad

[BlueBug]

Thanks. Unfortunately that floor plan in Tualatin isn't suitable - I need the FS model. I've written to GW Vans and Trillium RV and will see what they say. Really appreciate your help.

[Glenn Baglo]

Thought there was a post recently from Tom that indicated that because of the move to Alabama, that relationship with Great West was on shaky ground.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Thought there was a post recently from Tom that indicated that because of the move to Alabama, that relationship with Great West was on shaky ground.

I wrote to Tom recently to inquire about the move to Alabama, which he confirmed. No other details to report...

I don't remember seeing any recent posts by/from Tom himself- in fact, now that I think about it, I don't remember EVER seeing such posts-?

What's his "user name", if anyone knows?