2013 or 14 Subaru Outback 2.5L CVT

[MC1]

A good question norm. I would simply stick a $150. Garmin in front of the BMW unit.

I looked at a 2006 X3 on a lot a couple months ago. The sales rep told me about the faulty GPS unit that was in the car and the estimate they got from BMW to replace it.

[honda03842]

Yikes. Of course I was kidding. We use our phones. Ginny's cousin has a BMW and complains about the cost of ownership.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by troutboomer

We bought a Scamp 16 deluxe in August. I installed electric brake control and hitch on my '05 Outback 2.5 turbo. After some mi,nor repairs and updates we set off for a 5 day trip to Cape Henlopen Del. Part way there we blew the oil hose on the turbo and then the turbo died! We completed the trip without the turbo functioning, then had a Subaru dealer replace the turbocharger on the way home. It cost a whopping $3,400 ! Now my wife is convinced the camper blew the turbo and she won't take the Subaru on any more camping trips! Anybody have experience pulling a trailer with a OB Turbo?

Well I have to admit I suspect your wife is right. Although I havent pulled with a turbo Outback I have owned other Outbacks in years gone by. What I have noticed as well as my mechanic is that I seem to be replacing a lot of parts I have not had to replace on previous Outbacks with more milage now that my car is 6 years old but relatively low milage. Many of the parts that I have had to replace were rubber which suggests a heat issue - which is why when anyone asks I suggest they stick to pulling a 13' trailer and not max it out with a 16' as I am starting to be a firm believer that its not easy on the car.

[MC1]

Carol... what parts needed to be replaced on your Outback? Thnxs.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by troutboomer

We bought a Scamp 16 deluxe in August. I installed electric brake control and hitch on my '05 Outback 2.5 turbo. After some mi,nor repairs and updates we set off for a 5 day trip to Cape Henlopen Del. Part way there we blew the oil hose on the turbo and then the turbo died! We completed the trip without the turbo functioning, then had a Subaru dealer replace the turbocharger on the way home. It cost a whopping $3,400 ! Now my wife is convinced the camper blew the turbo and she won't take the Subaru on any more camping trips! Anybody have experience pulling a trailer with a OB Turbo?

Blowing an oil line took out your turbo, not the camper. Pulling the camper doesn't raise your oil pressure. I always figure turbos have a 100k mile lifespan, that's why my subaru doesn't have one.

The other thing that could shorten the life is your egt while towing.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

Carol... what parts needed to be replaced on your Outback? Thnxs.

So far axle boots and steering boots and few belts that went sooner than expected. I talked with another party who pulls with an older Outback at Bandon this summer and they have replaced all the boots as well - more than once and seem to think its just part of the wear and tear - funny none of my past Outbacks had to have those items replaced even though they had more miles. Also currently booked in for a special compression test to rule out another issue I have that I feel fortunate to have been advised may not be a head gasket issue .... it if the tests that are being done prove correct it is an issue I am told related to excessive heat. Funny thing is I have had the transmission oil checked and changed more than once and all good in regards to the transmission so the tranny cooler is at least doing its job...... Have also never noted the engine temp gauge to go up either.... but aware that the ones on the car may not be all that great.

[Jared J]

On most modern cars, the gauges won't move much. They're programmed to have a dead zone. If you look, almost all gauges run at halfway, under almost all conditions. Too many people complained if a needle moved a hair, so they all have a dead zone now, and are not much more than an idiot light that looks like a gauge. Ticks me off. They've made an early warning/diagnostic tool completely worthless, just to keep the idiots at bay.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

So far axle boots and steering boots and few belts that went sooner than expected.

Thnxs...

Our 1993 Nissan Quest was 16 years old, had 465,000 klm's on it, towed our Airstream and Coleman pop up for years and the axle boots were original and never failed.

Our 1997 Nissan Quest is now 16 years. Two years ago the left axle boot failed, the right boot failed a couple months ago. It now has 275,000klm's on it and has never towed anything.

Probably heat has not much to do with the boots. Quality variance of the parts is probably the root cause.

Belts, not sure/won't guess. Our G35 gets a work out towing the 23' and I replaced both belts at 180,000klm.s

[Radar1]

I just changed one of the inner boots on my 08 Outback at 80,000 miles. Seems that's common now with the extra heat generated by the later models (true with most cars these days) whether towing or not towing. At least it's not too difficult or expensive to do and the Outback forum gives good guidance.
I have an ultra-gauge on mine that measures coolant temperature to the tenth of a degree, and the coolant temperature doesn't seem go up any more than on my Dodge Dakota in the same conditions, so I feel good about that. Just wish I had a transmission temperature gauge.

[Carol H]

I also on my previously owned Outbacks had no boot or belt issues- have 3 others as a bench mark - all had way more miles on them. None had the failures this one has had with only 65,000 miles on it - but it should be noted about half those miles have been towing. I am not just a week-end warrior. Did not tow with previous Outbacks. Also noted the only other person who I have meet with an Outback that has had to replace boots and we have a *Lot* of people in this area to ask as they are a very popular car (at least 6 on the street I live), is someone I mentioned previously who also tows with theirs a lot of miles a 16' trailer.

I appreciate your comments re heat not having much to do with boots but I have a couple of real good mechanics who would disagree with you on that point. Rubber products and excessive heat dont go well together

Boots and belts are not the only items that have worn out much sooner than I have experienced with previously owned Outbacks and a good argument that each of those items could well be related to towing a trailer close to the towing specs max weight (and over on the tongue) for many miles as well.

If I really wanted bury my head in the sand I could easily come with other reasons for each issue, but its my gut feeling they are all related. Thus the reason the Outback is being retired from towing regardless of what the cause of the latest/bigger issue is found to be caused by.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Radar1

I just changed one of the inner boots on my 08 Outback at 80,000 miles. Seems that's common now with the extra heat generated by the later models (true with most cars these days) whether towing or not towing. At least it's not too difficult or expensive to do and the Outback forum gives good guidance.
.

LOL ok John you now make three people who I know who have had to replaced a boot - if I am not mistaken you use to tow with that Outback didnt you? Although I do know that a boot can take a hit on the highway causing a small tear and early demise.... which may account for why you have only had to replace one.

[troutboomer]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Blowing an oil line took out your turbo, not the camper. Pulling the camper doesn't raise your oil pressure. I always figure turbos have a 100k mile lifespan, that's why my subaru doesn't have one.

The other thing that could shorten the life is your egt while towing.

My OB Turbo had 124k on it when it failed. I also lost a front wheel bearing hub unit and an axle assembly on the same trip, while pulling the Scamp 16'. Another $1,100.

[honda03842]

Boots and belts seem like a normal wear item to me. We replaced our front boots at 200,000 and our belt at about 180,000, just because it hadn't been changed since new though we always carry one with us.

We had never changed our manual transmission fluid so we had it done at 200,000 miles as well. All were relatively inexpensive.

I really don't understand increased vehicle temperatures. What's the source of increased temps?

As to gauges we use and Ultragauge to measure temperature. It seems accurate, or minimally is good at detecting change. Itlet us know our thermostat had failed as well as giving early indication of other potential failures, like our spark plugs needed to be changed when it detected a rare mis-fire at 150,000 miles.

As to more complicated elements like turbos and automatic transmisiions, I lean towards the simpler unit and would buy another CRV with a manual transmission the day one is available.

[Radar1]

Norm,
It seems the newer cars are designed to run hotter for more efficiency, plus more and more optional items are being added these days that consume energy and also contribute to heat buildup.
Dodge trucks even have shutters available in front of the radiator now to ensure the engine gets up to operating temperature quicker, and some auto transmissions operate at higher RPMs when first started to get them up to higher temps quicker.
I remember the good old days when my 56 Chevy had no A/C, no electric wipers, no electric windows, no power steering or brakes, no emissions equipment, no alternator, and "three on the tree" shifter (which I replaced with a Hurst floor shifter).
(Did I say good old days?)

I also like to keep things simple, and turbos seem like they could be more trouble than they're worth, although I still like the idea of a small turbo-diesel.

[honda03842]

John,

I received this same point in a private email, today's cars run hotter. My counter is that our 2004 Honda CRV is not very different from a 2014 CRV...same engine, same engine volume, same options. I suspect a 2014 Outback is not much different from a 2006 Outback.

I admit that decades older cars carried fewer options and had bigger engine compartments and ran cooler, but it's hard to attribute the new Outbacks small failures to higher temperatures. At least in my case today's Honda, outside of shape, is not much different from 10 years ago.

Maybe I should get a new clutch for our 2004 Honda CRV and not buy a 2014.

We're in GA tonight at St. Marys, one of our favorite little towns. It's pouring sitting here in our water tight haven. Loving Georgia SHRIMP.

I'd buy a Honda diesel but not to sure about a VW.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I really don't understand increased vehicle temperatures. What's the source of increased temps?

Back in the 60's my dad was towing 13 to 17' trailers with his V8 Ford. Pulled off at a rest area and always popped the hood to let it cool down. I recall the blast of hot air when the hood went up.

We did the same thing last year with the V6 G35 after towing the 23' on a rolling hill highway for a couple hours. Luke warm air, nothing more. The aluminum seems dissipate the heat better plus the fact we are burning less fuel these days which produces less heat.

[Hiker]

Has anyone had significant experience going through mountains or steeper grades?
Does it hold speed reasonably well?
I have a 13' Scamp with a front bathroom.

[Jared J]

If it's the same as a 2011, I thought it was god awful without a trailer. I wasn't completely sure I was going to make it up an onramp, and didn't appreciate merging at 55 mph. The 6 speed manual drives like you have another 50hp behind it.

Holding speed in mountains? Good luck. I would bet 30-40 mph. Mine doesn't keep speed on moderate hills with the manual with a 4-500 pound trailer behind it, unless it's shifted down to fourth or fifth.

[MC1]

Shifting or gearing down is a good thing. Brings the engine into a zone where it feels comfortable. The 18 wheelers do it all the time when climbing.

I have many bikes (pedal bikes). One has 30 speeds. At one time or another I have used all those gears. It works.

[Jared J]

It's not a good thing when you're doing it in moderate hills and want to do it in mountains with 1,000 more lbs behind you. It's turning some pretty high rpms in fourth.

Edit: mine is a legacy, so you have even more weight already.