2014 Subaru Forester- 1500 lb towing - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-22-2013, 11:33 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
I wonder how many of us that are towing with other-than-pickups would care to subject our beloved tugs to the new tests? I know I wouldn't!

I'm pretty sure that if I put my '97 Kia through the tests/paces described at this link, she'd most likely come out of it "rated" to tow nothing except her sorry self up that grade!

As it is, I'm pleased as punch to be able to point to my 2,000 pound, probably-baseless "tow rating"!

Francesca
I think that's exactly the point of that rating. Personally, I think it's quite reasonable, and hope it gets some dangerous rigs off the road.

If you can't go up a grade with it and stay above 40 mph, or accelerate from 0-60 in 30 seconds, you're a danger to others, IMHO. In some areas around here, you have to pull onto interstate from damn near a dead stop, with not that long of an on ramp. You better be able to get on it. If it's a two lane that has one safe passing spot every 50 miles, it's even worse. I had that when I brought my camper back. A sheriff was doing 45 on the freaking highway. Two lane, hills, no safe spot to pass. He added damn near an hour onto my already 16 hour trip. The only leeway I would give somebody is if they only haul it in an area that doesn't have hills, etc.

When you're driving along in the right lane with traffic ahead of you, traffic to the left of you, and the car in front of you suddenly darts hard left because they were 6" from going in the trunk of a vehicle (or back of a trailer) doing 45 on interstate, it's a problem and they shouldn't be on the road. You can only give yourself so much distance on the road before somebody else pulls in and cuts it in half. I've been there, and don't appreciate it.

I have towed for quite a few miles. Semi, car trailers, you name it. IIRC, my Subaru is rated for 2,000#'s towing. I think that's ridiculous. 1,000 is pushing it, IMHO. Yes, I know people here tow them at capacity, that's their choice. That was my goal as well. I was going to buy a 13' scamp and pull it with the Subaru. After pulling a little trailer that was maybe 500 lbs, I knew I never wanted to pull a camper with it. The way back had surprise 40 mph winds gusting to 60, and driving rain. It wasn't unsafe, but I could definitely feel that flatbed with two kayaks and a bicycle on it getting pushed sideways more than I liked. With luck, it would have been a white knuckle ride with a camper, or easily much worse.

I was shocked when I came on here, and saw what people were pulling campers with (and still am). I've been in enough hairy situations with more than adequate tow vehicles, if it had been with my Subaru, I would have been S.O.L. I don't doubt they can tow ok under normal conditions, but I highly doubt it will turn out well in one of those bad situations where you pucker so hard, you suck up the seat cushion.

Oh well, I'm going to get off my soapbox and throw my work clothes in the washer, so I have something to wear for overtime tomorrow. Have to make some money to fuel up that 11.5 mpg gas guzzling tow rig...

I'll keep my mouth shut now, and do my own thing.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:53 PM   #30
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Fast kills a lot more people than slow does, Jared!

And if my usual speed of 50- 60 seems poky to you:

I guarantee you that if you and I set out at the same time to meet, say, 300 miles away over two-lane highways, you wouldn't beat me there by more than half an hour, MAX.

Regardless of hills!

Francesca
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:06 AM   #31
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Fast kills a lot more people than slow does, Jared!

And if my usual speed of 50- 60 seems poky to you:

I guarantee you that if you and I set out at the same time to meet, say, 300 miles away over two-lane highways, you wouldn't beat me there by more than half an hour, MAX.

Regardless of hills!

Francesca
Not if everybody else is going fast while one person is going 20-30 mph slower. With a 75 mph speed limit, somebody doing 40-50 can make things very interesting in traffic, especially if you can't see them past the vehicle in front of you. When that vehicles swerves hard left at the last second to get around them without giving you any indication, you don't have much room to work with. I give distance, but if you give too much somebody will cut that distance in half for you.

My drive is 650 miles.

650/55mph (averaged your speed) = 11.8 hours.
650/75mph = 8.7 hours. 3.1 hours difference each way. Obviously, this isn't taking into account gas stops, but everybody has those.

On a round trip, that's 6.2 hours of time I'm losing, and I often have two driving days, and two days of being there. 6.2 lost hours is a big chunk of my visiting time.

Even with your 300, that's 5.45 hours for you, and 4 hours for me. Our two lanes aren't 75, but I won't be on two lanes for more than a few miles, either.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:23 AM   #32
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[QUOTE=Jared J;364313
I was going to buy a 13' scamp and pull it with the Subaru. After pulling a little trailer that was maybe 500 lbs, I knew I never wanted to pull a camper with it. The way back had surprise 40 mph winds gusting to 60, and driving rain. It wasn't unsafe, but I could definitely feel that flatbed with two kayaks and a bicycle on it getting pushed sideways more than I liked.
.[/QUOTE]

Jared was it you who posted the photo of a Subaru (cant recall the model) pulling a boat trailer with an extended tongue and a Jet Ski on some sort of platform on the rear section of the trailer? and a couple of plastic kayaks sitting up fairly high on either side of it? Seem to recall who ever the poster was mentioning that they worried about wind gust. I would have to as it didnt look to have much of any weight on the tongue. I have actually found the Subaru Outback to me amazingly stable towing in the wind. Pulled through a couple of serious wind storms down in the desert last winter and the trailer didnt move an inch (even when the semi in front of me ended up sideways on the road way due to wind gust hitting us from the side) but I also have the max on the tongue which I suspect may be why my experience is somewhat different.
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:36 AM   #33
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Jared was it you who posted the photo of a Subaru (cant recall the model) pulling a boat trailer with an extended tongue and a Jet Ski on some sort of platform on the rear section of the trailer? and a couple of plastic kayaks sitting up fairly high on either side of it? Seem to recall who ever the poster was mentioning that they worried about wind gust. I would have to as it didnt look to have much of any weight on the tongue. I have actually found the Subaru Outback to me amazingly stable towing in the wind. Pulled through a couple of serious wind storms down in the desert last winter and the trailer didnt move an inch (even when the semi in front of me ended up sideways on the road way due to wind gust hitting us from the side) but I also have the max on the tongue which I suspect may be why my experience is somewhat different.
I assume so, but it was a kayak on the car, with two kayaks and a bike on the trailer.



The car didn't move, the trailer did a few times when it started pouring rain and hit the 60 some mph gusts. I realize a camper weighs more, but it also has much more surface area for find to hit. For that matter, the car was somewhat loaded down.

It also did not pull the trailer nearly as well as I thought. I expected the trailer wouldn't even really be a noticeable difference in power, not so. I had to downshift on some hills (never have without a trailer), and didn't think I would with that little weight (maybe 600 pounds max with trailer and stuff in car, I'm guessing).

Plain and simple, it would be a miserable towing experience for me to put a camper behind it. It's just opinion, but I would much rather hop in the truck, set the cruise at 75 and forget about downshifting or slowing down on hills, or not having power to pass, or the extra towing capacity to help me get out of a bad situation. Yeah, it sucks down gas like none other, I'll deal with it.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:26 AM   #34
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It's obvious that the SAE rules applied to tow trailer vehicles are not applicable to "all" tow vehicles; the majority of tow vehicles in North America are semis. My little Honda is always faster than semis on uphill runs.

Where is the reality?
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:43 AM   #35
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Back to the Forester and revised tow ratings, my guess is that it has something to do with Subaru trying to more clearly brand its models and steer people to the Outback as the outdoorsy, pull your trailer, haul your kayaks type of car and the Forester being marketed more as the soccer mom, family car.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:49 AM   #36
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It's obvious that the SAE rules applied to tow trailer vehicles are not applicable to "all" tow vehicles; the majority of tow vehicles in North America are semis. My little Honda is always faster than semis on uphill runs.

Where is the reality?
They must operate differently there. IIRC, you tow at 55mph. Here, I'm not sure I've seen a semi doing 55, even uphill. A few companies have them limited to 65 I think, because it's always the same trucks driving slow. The rest are doing 75 with everybody else.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:13 AM   #37
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Back to the Forester and revised tow ratings, my guess is that it has something to do with Subaru trying to more clearly brand its models and steer people to the Outback as the outdoorsy, pull your trailer, haul your kayaks type of car and the Forester being marketed more as the soccer mom, family car.
Good point.

Trailer tow capacity can be used to steer customers to more profitable models or trim packages. The tow rating can be up to the caprice of the marketing department. An example would be to only have the tow package on the highest trim package, with a lower tow rating on the lesser models - with no explanation. When I see tow ratings rounded to the nearest 1000 pounds, it tells me that they didn't iterate J2807 repeatedly until the vehicle failed, they just pulled a number out of a hat.

Given that J2807 can be easily modeled, it would be easy to give a data driven rating as opposed to a marketing driven rating.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:23 AM   #38
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Not if everybody else is going fast while one person is going 20-30 mph slower. With a 75 mph speed limit, somebody doing 40-50 can make things very interesting in traffic, especially if you can't see them past the vehicle in front of you. When that vehicles swerves hard left at the last second to get around them without giving you any indication, you don't have much room to work with. I give distance, but if you give too much somebody will cut that distance in half for you.

My drive is 650 miles.

650/55mph (averaged your speed) = 11.8 hours.
650/75mph = 8.7 hours. 3.1 hours difference each way. Obviously, this isn't taking into account gas stops, but everybody has those.

On a round trip, that's 6.2 hours of time I'm losing, and I often have two driving days, and two days of being there. 6.2 lost hours is a big chunk of my visiting time.

Even with your 300, that's 5.45 hours for you, and 4 hours for me. Our two lanes aren't 75, but I won't be on two lanes for more than a few miles, either.
Different strokes for different folks. 650 miles is too far. When I am towing the trailer, the drive, and what I see along the way, is an integral part of the trip. I will not be on the freeway with the professional haulers and the "gotta get theres" unless there is absolutely no small road alternative. I want to interact with the environment along the way. I haul with a half ton now, to have the space and luxuries of the 5th wheel. I enjoyed my Forester/Surfside combination and miss the ability to poke around and explore what may be a deadend road, without worrying about how to turn around.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:47 AM   #39
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Back to the Forester and revised tow ratings, my guess is that it has something to do with Subaru trying to more clearly brand its models and steer people to the Outback as the outdoorsy, pull your trailer, haul your kayaks type of car and the Forester being marketed more as the soccer mom, family car.
Something to consider is that the 1500 lb rating is for the 2014 Forester. The higher capacity for the Outback is for 2013. I'm guessing that the 2014 Outback will be lowered too.

Ches

Towing a 13 with a 2009 Forester turbo and having no problem.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:17 AM   #40
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Different strokes for different folks. 650 miles is too far. When I am towing the trailer, the drive, and what I see along the way, is an integral part of the trip. I will not be on the freeway with the professional haulers and the "gotta get theres" unless there is absolutely no small road alternative. I want to interact with the environment along the way. I haul with a half ton now, to have the space and luxuries of the 5th wheel. I enjoyed my Forester/Surfside combination and miss the ability to poke around and explore what may be a dead end road, without worrying about how to turn around.
I'm with you. The journey is all part of the experience.

Plus braking distance goes up with the square of velocity, unless this law has been recently revised.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:21 AM   #41
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Here, I'm not sure I've seen a semi doing 55, even uphill.
Jared, it seems that you have never driven where there are mountain grades. Join us on the Coquihalla sometime... where the two-lane-each way freeway gains an extra lane on the uphills, which is filled with "semis" (tractor-trailer rigs) grinding up with the hazard flashers at half of that 55 mph speed. It's not just the Coquihalla, of course... mountain highways everywhere have trucks slowed down substantially by grades, and I'm stuck behind them waiting in any of my vehicles (including the Sienna towing the Boler, and my motohome) if there isn't a passing lane available.

On the flat sections of the same highways, the big trucks are just as fast as other traffic; on the descents they are often faster. That's not what Norm was talking about.

The general limit for tractor-trailer rigs in North America is roughly 40 tons. The grade on many mountain highways is 6% or more. To pull 40,000 kg up a 6% slope at 55 mph even with no rolling resistance, no aerodynamic drag, and no inefficiency of any kind is 579 kW (775 hp). Since no production truck has that much power, and just overcoming drag on flat ground takes a much of the power they do have, these trucks are simply physically incapable maintaining 55 miles per hour while climbing significant mountain grades. Even more lightly loaded, 55 mph (90 km/h) is unrealistic for many highway grades.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:28 AM   #42
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650/55mph (averaged your speed) = 11.8 hours.
650/75mph = 8.7 hours. 3.1 hours difference each way. Obviously, this isn't taking into account gas stops, but everybody has those.
I agree that this math is correct. Now add the times that 75 mph turns into 60 mph of less due to other traffic, or curves, or sections of reduced speed limits, or anything else.

The point is that higher-speed travel is so far from maintaining constant high speed that it often has much less advantage the basic calculation would suggest. Personally, I often travel (even with the Boler or the motorhome) at substantially higher speed than I really should because I'm pressed for time... and I recognize that a peak cruising speed 15% over the speed limit saves me nowhere near 15% of the travel time - maybe half that, at best.

Of course, if a trip is down a continuous strip of high-speed highway in light traffic, it can be closer to the ideal time saving. I've never heard of 1000 kilometres of such conditions, but there are lots of places I have yet to drive.
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