2014 Subaru Forester- 1500 lb towing

[honda03842]

The most common cause of trailer accidents is the trailer coming off the ball.
I once looked at the web site on trailer accidents and read the cause of each trailer accident for one state. The majority were the trailer coming off the ball.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

It seems passing strange to me that the Outback can tow more than the Forester, but according to the published specs, it can!

Originally Posted by Carol H

Why strange. Its a bigger/heavier vehicle with a different engine - with more power.

According to every source I've found, the base engines for the new Forester and continuing Outback are the same engine (2.5 L four), with the same power (okay, the Forester is 3 hp lower, presumably due to a different exhaust system). Carol, were you referring to the optional larger engines (H6 in the Outback, turbo 4 in the Forester)? The tow rating difference shows up even with the identical base engines, so it must be related to something like engine cooling, or the ability to handle hitch weight (due to the Outback's longer wheelbase and likely higher rear suspension capacity).

[floyd]

Originally Posted by honda03842

The most common cause of trailer accidents is the trailer coming off the ball.
I once looked at the web site on trailer accidents and read the cause of each trailer accident for one state. The majority were the trailer coming off the ball.

I agree, if you're gonna tow a trailer,ya gotta be "on the ball".
so keep your "Eye...."

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Back on topic, although tongue weight/sway is a very relevant topic IMHO when discussion towing with the Forester or Outback due to their limited tongue weight of 200 lbs.

I agree that tongue weight is a meaningful limitation with these Subarus, perhaps more than the overal trailer weight rating.

I note that the 2014 Forester has a lower hitch weight limit (80 kg or 176 lb) than the longer 2013 Outback (91 kg or 200 lb), but with the substantially lower trailer weight this represents a much higher fraction (12% of 680 kg / 1500 lb for the Forester; 7.4% of 1224 kg / 2692 lb for the base-engine Outback) of the max trailer weight.

[dbailey]

When we're retired, I'll buy into the "getting there is half the enjoyment" philosophy. When we're restricted to how much traveling we can do by how much time we can get off work, then 600 mile travel days are going to be moderately common. When we visited Yellowstone a couple of years ago (from Ottawa) we tried to stay 2 nights in each place we stopped, so we'd have a chance to look around. But that just guaranteed that every day we traveled, it was a long day...

[glamourpets]

Its interesting that we have all sorts of talk about tow vehicles that can accelerate with a trailer, or tow up hills. It seems to me that it is equally, if not more important, the tow vehicle's ability to stop. Even the J standard that Toyota is using doesn't mention stopping ability. It seems to me that the J standard should include a test that demonstrates the ability of a tow vehicle and tug to go from 60 to 0 within a set time period.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by glamourpets

Its interesting that we have all sorts of talk about tow vehicles that can accelerate with a trailer, or tow up hills. It seems to me that it is equally, if not more important, the tow vehicle's ability to stop. Even the J standard that Toyota is using doesn't mention stopping ability. It seems to me that the J standard should include a test that demonstrates the ability of a tow vehicle and tug to go from 60 to 0 within a set time period.

I'm pretty sure it does have a stopping requirement with no trailer brakes.

Braking Requirements
The test vehicle and trailer must stay within a 11.5-foot wide traffic lane during stopping tests. The parking brake must be capable of holding the rig on 12-percent up and down grades.
Stopping distance requirements from an initial 20 mph without use of trailer brakes are:

• In 35 feet or less with a TWR of 3000 pounds or less and no trailer brake requirement.
• In 45 feet or less with a TWR of 3000 pounds or less and a trailer brake requirement.
• In 80 feet or less for TWRs above 3000 pounds.

Read more: Tow Ratings Finally Pass the Sniff Test - The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) - Automobile Magazine

[Carol H]

While the H6 engine would give the Outback more power, you are right Brian I had forgotten that they do now have the same engines on the base models since 2011? put as you say for what ever reason the Outback has a tiny bit more power.

They do though have different transmissions so that may also be a part of why the difference in ratings along with the wheelbase and difference in rear suspension. Only Subaru knows for sure as to why!

As they have been beefing up the Forester more and more in power and size over the past few years and added a smaller cross over vehicle to the line up last year to take the place of what was the original smaller lower powered Foresters market, as well as the rumors of the disappearance of the Tribeca next year, one is left to wonder whats the marketing plan. Doesnt make sense to me that they now have two vehicles the Forester and Outback in the line up so close in specs and size. I am kind of wondering if or when they take the Tribeca off the market if they are going to beef up the standard power on the Outback and return things back to the way they were for years with the Outback had more power than the Forester.... we will just have to wait and see.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by glamourpets

Even the J standard that Toyota is using doesn't mention stopping ability. It seems to me that the J standard...

Many of the SAE standards start with "J"... including all of the towing-related standards I've seen. This one is J2807, hitches are covered by J684, trailer wiring connections by J1239, and so on. If not giving the number, when the specific standard is apparent by context, "SAE standard" might be a more appropriate term.

[Glenn Baglo]

Just have to face it. Consumers looking for a compact, fuel efficient tow vehicle for a small, lightweight trailer are a miniscule part of the market. When those companies consider towing, they are probably thinking a 4' x 6' utility trailer for weekend hauls to the dump.
The main consumer demand is for a cute ute with great fuel economy, a 600W 12 speaker sound system, heated seats and steering wheel and 32 cup holders.
Just going to have to move up in size and price.

baglo

[Roger C H]

I recently received the 2013 Trailer Life Guide to Towing. It seemed to me that the Forester had a higher rating than mentioned here. It says 2400, however, on the Subaru website, it does say 1500. Quite a difference.

Trailer Life does have the Outback correct, 2700 for the 2.5L and 3000 for the 3.6L.

Darned if the listing on the web isn't for the 2014. Did they sell all the 2013's?

Subaru Forester | Forester Compare Tool

[Bobbie Mayer]

2013 WAS 2400. 2014 is 1500.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Jared J

If trailer brakes are working properly, there should be no difference from driving the tow vehicle without the trailer.

This is simply not true, in my opinion. I think according to velocity laws- immutable, like other physics principles- Thomas' observation is correct.

Francesca

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

They do though have different transmissions so that may also be a part of why the difference in ratings along with the wheelbase and difference in rear suspension. Only Subaru knows for sure as to why!

Although these two models have had different transmissions, they now have the same basic specs (although different AWD control systems). I think the transmission is unlikely to be a source of towing rating difference (although transmission cooling could be in the automatics), but I agree that there are many details to consider and only the manufacturer really knows what might be the weak link in the chain.

Originally Posted by Carol H

... one is left to wonder whats the marketing plan. Doesnt make sense to me that they now have two vehicles the Forester and Outback in the line up so close in specs and size.

The specs are often very similar between models because for efficiency of development and production the same components (engines in this case, but also transmissions and complete suspensions) are used where one might reasonably expect a difference.

Since the Outback now has substantially more towing capacity - whether or not we understand why - dealers have a reason to force buyers up to the Outback from the Forester. When I asked a Toyota salesman about the lack of towing capacity in the new RAV4, he said that he will just direct buyers who want to tow to a Highlander... this is similar.

Although the base engines are the same, the upgrade engines are different, distinguishing the models.

[Roger C H]

I have my doubts about CVT Transmissions for towing.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jared J

If trailer brakes are working properly, there should be no difference from driving the tow vehicle without the trailer.

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

This is simply not true, in my opinion. I think according to velocity laws- immutable, like other physics principles- Thomas' observation is correct.

I'm not sure what "velocity laws" is intended to mean, but there is no fundamental principle which keeps a tug with trailer from decelerating as effectively as the tug alone. The relevant really basic law is Newton's good old second law: Force = mass x acceleration

The trailer adds mass, but it also adds tire traction in proportion, so if brake hardware is also added to those trailer wheels, the net result can be no change. Think of a 3000 lb tug and 1500 lb trailer like a 3000 lb car being very closely followed by a 1500 lb car, each doing its own braking; any size or weight of vehicle can brake equally effectively, with similarly appropriate tires and brakes. In practice, it takes no more push on the brake pedal in my Sienna to stop with the trailer than it does without, since the trailer does its share of the work.

Due to typical practices in trailer equipment, ultimate braking performance will be worse with the trailer... because the trailer will likely have tiny and low-traction tires with marginal drum brakes. Put on comparable hardware and all is good.

There is the problem of control, which will keep the rig from stopping at the ultimate limit of the tug alone, but I doubt the average driver would get close to detecting the difference with proper trailer brakes.

[Bobbie Mayer]

The Outback is at its original towing capacity (or we assume it is, the 2014 specs aren't up.) Give it time. I don't think the intention was to downgrade the Forester; I think the Outback will be following in its tracks.

But maybe not- they were going for higher gas mileage so maybe they'll leave the Outback alone and then push the Forester as a better all-round car. (But that doesn't really make sense... my guess is the Outback will go down in towing capacity when it gets its redo, too.)

Still.. glad I got my Forester when I did.

[Francesca Knowles]

For those who may think that the presence of electric brakes on a trailer is equivalent to an equalization/sufficiency of braking power for the towed combination, I encourage a close look at the following report regarding then-new Federal mandates for braking distance minimums on semitruck/trailer combinations.

The trucks pulling the trailers had no problem with the minimums when not towing, but despite many thousands of dollars invested, the trucking industry was unable to perfect the technology required to build brakes for the trailers that would succeed in bringing the whole combination to a stop in the required minimum distance.

Here quoting from Federal Reduced Stopping Distance Mandate

Even with air disc brakes on all wheels, testing demonstrated that these vehicles were unable to meet the 30 percent stopping distance reduction. As a result, the agency implemented a 13 percent reduction for these vehicles.

I leave it to others to divine the reason for the Feds' reduction in the minimum stopping distance requirement in the case of commercial trailers. But for myself, and for purposes of this discussion, the fact that the trucking industry had such difficulty with the standard suggests that there is very much more to stopping a towed combination than the simple addition of an electric-braked axle.

Francesca

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

This is simply not true, in my opinion. I think according to velocity laws- immutable, like other physics principles- Thomas' observation is correct.

Francesca

How so? Just hitting the manual brake controller will put your head through the windshield, pulling the car trailer. The scamp with 28 year old tiny 7" brakes, handled every bit of stopping itself. With new 10" brakes, they will more than handle the trailers share of braking.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Roger C H

I have my doubts about CVT Transmissions for towing.

I have my doubts about the subaru cvt NOT towing. I test drove a legacy with one, and it was an absolute dog. I told the dealer if the 6speed manual drove like that, they could keep it when it came in. Luckily, it drove like it had another 50hp on the cvt. Don't get me wrong, it's nothing impressive, but it will pull itself on hills without having to downshift.