4 versus 7-pin connectors

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Raz

Just to be clear, I'm not sure a WDH is necessary with a Casita 17. I've just noticed that most Casita 17's I've seen were towed by trucks and had a WDH.

We own a 17ft Casita with a tongue weight of approx 430 lbs
My tow vehicle is a Ram 1500 with a towing capacity of 10,250 lbs
We employ a WDH when towing
Our vehicle has a factory installed , integrated brake controller.
We have used aftermarket P2 & P3 Tekonsha brake controllers on previous tow vehicles and much prefer the factory IBC.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Raz

Just to be clear, I'm not sure a WDH is necessary with a Casita 17. I've just noticed that most Casita 17's I've seen were towed by trucks and had a WDH.

I'd say it is pretty strongly indicated for the class of vehicle the OP is looking at: AWD crossovers on FWD platforms.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I'd say it is at least indicated for the class of vehicle the OP is looking at: AWD crossovers on FWD platforms.

We had a completely stable and comfortable experience running the Q5-Casita combination without a WDH, including driving I-90 at speed through the Cascades and in the Columbia River Gorge, including experiencing some of the notoriously windy conditions there.

I gave quite a bit of attention to carefully evaluating more and more challenging conditions over time and was glad to find that we were able to do this. I always monitored the tire pressures, tongue weight and loading carefully. I also eliminated most of the slop in the hitching arrangements, though I never did use our StowAway hitch tightener. The "trials" included trying to initiate instability with the steering, and also performing "mock-emergency" braking at speed when conditions allowed.

I would anticipate that one might have a similar experience with another 5,000/500 rated SUV when towing a Casita 17D with acceptable tire pressures, tongue weight and loading. But it would certainly require some evaluation to validate this as one vehicle is certainly not going to perform the same as another.

[Jon in AZ]

I'm guessing the sport-tuned suspension on the Audi helped. Some of the vehicles on the OP's short list are pretty softly sprung.

Stability is not the main issue- overloading the rear suspension is. I've read reports of unusual tire wear on the rear axles of Pilots pulling Casita 17's without WDH. Heavy loads can affect alignment on an independent rear suspension.

Point taken, though- it's not a one-size-fits-all decision.

[John in Santa Cruz]

re: Tacomas, you might also look at the 4Runner, if you want an SUV. the 4Runner is, approximately, an SUV body on a Tacoma chassis (not exactly but more or less). The 4Runner is natively RWD, with optional 4x4. It has coil spring rear suspension where the Tacoma has leaf spring so the back is a bit softer, but generally has similar towing capacities to a similiar year/equipped Tacoma (my 2008 Tacoma 4x4 Access Cab TRD Off Road is rated for 1200 lbs payload, and/or 6500 lbs tow). It tows a Casita very nicely, it even pulled a ~4000 lb Escape 21 from Dallas to the west coast. I did use a WDH on it to control bobbing (porpoising) on bumps but I've since installed airbags which seem to work just as well (yes, I know about front axle weight transfer, its not been a problem)

[Glenn Baglo]

I've looked ( from afar ) at 4Runner, comparing to Highlander.
4Runner costs about $10,000 more than a Highlander.
That's a lot of money for a macho image, if you don't need the capability.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I'm guessing the sport-tuned suspension on the Audi helped. Some of the vehicles on the OP's short list are pretty softly sprung.

Stability is not the main issue- overloading the rear suspension is. I've read reports of unusual tire wear on the rear axles of Pilots pullng Casita 17's without WDH. Heavy loads can affect alignment on an independent rear suspension.

Point taken, though- it's not a one-size-fits-all decision.

Yes, I think you've developed a much broader knowledge base than I have Jon.

Thinking about all this, I remembered seeing that the "Tongue Load Range" on the Escape 21's specification nameplate is noted as "318 kg or 699 lbs". That's much higher than the 360-lb dry-weight tongue weight published for the 21 on Escape's web site.

While it makes sense that the rated tongue weight is at 14% of the 5,000 GVWR, it sort of surprised me when I first saw the label. It sure confirms the decision to go with the Jeep in lieu of the Audi with its 4,400 / 440 ratings.

It looks like I'll have to continue to manage the loading and the tongue weight carefully as there's so much storage up front in the 21. I'm glad I invested in the Sherline tongue scale.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I've looked ( from afar ) at 4Runner, comparing to Highlander.
4Runner costs about $10,000 more than a Highlander.
That's a lot of money for a macho image, if you don't need the capability.

4Runner is built on a RWD truck chassis. Highlander is based on a FWD Camry platform. 4Runner is far more suitable for towing.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

4Runner is built on a RWD truck chassis. Highlander is based on a FWD Camry platform. 4Runner is far more suitable for towing.

I don't want a truck ride. I just want the macho image.
And, I'm not willing to spend ten grand on image.
Highlander is a perfectly capable tow.

[Bruce H]

Debbie, Go test drive a Ford F-150 with the 3.5 eco-boost engine and 10 speed automatic transmission. You will forget about the Toyota. Then order or have the dealer find one with the heavy duty trailer tow package. It will come from the factory with a built in factory brake controller that works better than any aftermarket controller, both 4 way and 7 way plug ins on the back, and nice big power extendable rear view mirrors which include a large convex mirror that make it easy to see what is beside you.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Debbie wants a compact SUV she can use as a daily driver, I doubt the F150 fits that bill at all.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Bruce H

Debbie, Go test drive a Ford F-150 with the 3.5 eco-boost engine and 10 speed automatic transmission. You will forget about the Toyota. Then order or have the dealer find one with the heavy duty trailer tow package. It will come from the factory with a built in factory brake controller that works better than any aftermarket controller, both 4 way and 7 way plug ins on the back, and nice big power extendable rear view mirrors which include a large convex mirror that make it easy to see what is beside you.

Just curious, what does one of those cost?

[k0wtz]

Interesting remarks and advice a 16f f/glass trailer has some weight I would go for the highlander not a small tug. she needs to match her tug to her trailer if she is going 16 forget small vehicles.


she needs to find someone close to advise her and not pay attention to any salesman who is getting his ideas out of a book. it doesn't work!


no way can she run that rig without brakes so she needs a 7pin connector either factor or hooked up by a pro. she is asking great questions though before she jumps out there!!


bob

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Raz

Just curious, what does one of those cost?

$30-50K :-O

[a major reason why I bought a 2002 F250 diesel for $13k vs $40k+ for the new one]

[k0wtz]

john you are a smart man my neighbor just traded his chevy diesel with 100k on it. I cant remember the year but it had the whole deal it was super expensive when he bought it.

he was complaining he didn't get much for it I wanted it. I bet it was sold the next day.

some smart people out there!!

bob

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

john you are a smart man my neighbor just traded his chevy diesel with 100k on it. I cant remember the year but it had the whole deal it was super expensive when he bought it.

he was complaining he didn't get much for it I wanted it. I bet it was sold the next day.

some smart people out there!!

bob

yeah, mine was the last year for the 7.3... all the diesels after that have been uber-expensive and problematic to fix. sure, the 7.3 is a bit of a dog but I'm not racing. and 17 MPG towing the casita, hah, my 4.0L V6 Tacoma got at best 13 towing.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Debbie wants a compact SUV she can use as a daily driver, I doubt the F150 fits that bill at all.

My daily driver for over 40 years was a 3/4 or 1 ton truck
When I retired from work , I downsized and bought a 1/2 ton truck .
All said ; A Ford F-150 is an excellent vehicle ( commuter or tow )

[John in Santa Cruz]

where I live, a full sized truck would be quite annoying as a daily driver. my area is full of narrow twisty mountain roads, and my town is full of narrow streets with parallel parking. this all greatly favors a smaller sporty car thats highly maneuverable.

[BarbinBC]

Okay, I've been reading all the responses to and from Debbie. My choice for a daily driver/tow vehicle would be the Toyota. Either the Tacoma or the 4Runner. The 4Runner will probably be my next vehicle after having 3 Tacoma pickups. When I stop hauling stuff around in the box of my truck with no canopy.

Since my first Toyota pickup in 1982 I've been very happy with them all. Easy to drive around town but they have become larger over the years. But they have become more car-like too with better amenities and a more comfortable ride. All of them have been 4x4's which I use for going up the mountain here in the winter and logging roads in the summer. I get 19 mpg. towing.

Each of these Toyota's (plus 2 Corolla's) have lasted a long time and had good re-sale value. I had no problem selling them privately as they are always in demand. Good, consistent maintenance goes a long way. Of course you will pay a little more initially for the reliability of these vehicles but in the long run, on a dollar per mile basis, and peace of mind, you will come out ahead. I like to find one year old vehicles with low mileage and a lower price tag.

Good luck in your search, Debbie.
From an over 70 year old truck driver!