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07-04-2007, 05:35 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
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The instructions for install seem quite simple and clear to me. (I read 'em.. I am a girl) They are SO simple, as a matter of fact, I am wondering if I have missed anything.
Basically, locate the frame ball 24 inches back from the center of the coupler, and the little tiny hitch ball (For the sway bar) 5 inches out and 1 1/2 inches behind the drawbar ball.
This part is easy, as the WDH I have is already set up for this ball in the right spot.. all I have to do is tighten the ball on.
The welder actually told me I was talented enuff to do this myself, and locating it on the STREET side is not a problem. I can not put it on the curbside as the frame on that side at 24 inches has a raised and welded on plate that the jack is mounted to. Even with the jack off, the plate is in the way.
As much as I would like the plate welded onto the frame, there are no appointments available at my welders to do this before I leave for Oregon, so.. I will use the supplied monster bolts and get it welded when I get back.
Anyway, any pitfalls I should look for? Tips for adjustment?
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07-04-2007, 07:04 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
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Skill, I may have..
Brawn.. I do not.
The monster bolts are actually 11/32 self tapping telephone poles. Try as I could, I don't have enuff brute force in me to get them to tap!
Guess I call the welder and beg tomorrow. I have one hole in my frame now, about 1/2 inch up.
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07-04-2007, 11:28 PM
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#3
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Moderator
Trailer: Fiber Stream 1978 / Honda Odyssey LX 2003
Posts: 8,222
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Quote:
Skill, I may have..
Brawn.. I do not.
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That's why the instructions are so simple. It takes a GUY to do this sort of grunt work.
__________________
Frederick - The Scaleman
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07-05-2007, 04:20 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 Bigfoot 17 ft ('Beastie')
Posts: 564
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It's about time you did something about the sway, Gina. Is there any way you can substitute grade 5 bolts and locknuts for the self-tapping kind? Might be easier for you to install.
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07-05-2007, 05:36 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Trailer: TrailManor (Gone to the Darkside)
Posts: 466
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Solution 1: Drill starter holes where the self-tapping bolts are going. Something about 1/2 the diameter of the bolt shouldn't take away anything that would be there in the end - yet will help the tapping part catch nicely.
Course - that assumes that starting the bolt is the problem. If it's catching fine and the problem is actually TURNING the bolt... Stick a pipe on the handle of your ratchet for more leverage.
Solution 2: Is it possible to switch it to something where you're using bolts/locknuts and a backing plate? Personally, the whole idea of drilling substantial holes through the toungue of the trailer gives me the willies anyway.
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07-05-2007, 06:35 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1989 Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 2,055
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My approach: purchase a bracket that requires no drilling. So simple even I did it by myself. .
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07-05-2007, 06:40 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1989 Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 2,055
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I also decided to go with a mini-sway. They are good up to 3500 #s. The reason is that my spare tire rack was in the way of using the stardard one that requires the 24" spread and the mini only requires 18". I have used it for several years and it has severed me quite well.
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07-05-2007, 08:27 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
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Mike, solution 1 is not a solution.. there are starter holes @ 11/32 as instructed.
Solution 2 ...it's not the turn thats the issue, it's getting enuff ohmph to even get the first thread started.. downward force (Or sideways, in this case.) If the dang thing would cut for me, I could use a breaker bar.. no problem.
I like Suz's solution. I will see if I can get such an item from one of our fine and oh so fairly priced RV places here..
IF I can't talk the welder into squeezing me in. There is only one hole now.. and yes, it makes me nervous looking at it after I drilled it out.
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07-05-2007, 10:25 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1996 13 ft Scamp
Posts: 471
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HI Gina,
Do you have a friend that is as lazy as me and owns a tire impact tool. I used mine to install a sway control. It drove the self tapping bolts into the trailer frame very easily.
You could go to a tire shop and ask them to drive the bolts in for you. It would only take them a minute or 2.
John
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07-05-2007, 10:51 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1991 16 ft Casita Freedom Deluxe
Posts: 250
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Self-tappers?
I'd just drill a through-hole and use a grade 8 bolt with a Nylock nut on the other side.
That is, inless this is a box-section frame and you'd have to go through both sides. The only way to corretly use a bolt through the tubing would be either to drill it out to clearance size on the back so you could get the nut on and only clamp on one side of the tubing, like the self-tapper would do, or to insert a bushing to prevent you from collapsing the tubing - which should really be welded in.
If it's a C-channel frome, though, I'd just do the through bolt and pitch the self-tappers.
Another idea would be to determine the diameter and pitch of the self-tapping screw and simply get a machine tap then tap the hole. Cutting threads with a tap doesn't require much oomph because you have actual machined cutting edges, not the sorry excuse for cutters a mass-produced, soft self-tapper would have.
When you say 11/32", do you mean the size of the wrench needed to drive the bolt? That's pretty close to a 3/4", which is a common head size for a 1/2" diameter bolt. It might be 1/2-13 (13 threads per inch) or 1/2-20 (20 threads per inch).
A 1/2" tap should only run you maybe $10? Get a bottle of tapping lubricant for a few bucks more and a coule of real bolts, and you could have this licked.
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07-05-2007, 12:05 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
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Quote:
When you say 11/32", do you mean the size of the wrench needed to drive the bolt?
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Lee, no.. that is the hole size.
John, that thought actually DID cross my mind, but if I gotta hitch up and drag it somewhere, I might as well get it done with a weld.. 2 miles to the tire shop, 40 miles to the welder.. it's all the same.
The welder will squeeze me in next week. I begged real good!
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07-05-2007, 12:18 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler 1700SGH (Stage II twoftitis)
Posts: 284
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Quote:
A 1/2" tap should only run you maybe $10? Get a bottle of tapping lubricant for a few bucks more and a coule of real bolts, and you could have this licked.
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It'lll be closer to $30 because you'll want to buy a second tap for when you break the first one, plus a drift to get the broken bits of the first one out of the hole. Though I don't condone trying to cut threads into the 1/8" thick steel that is your trailer frame, and expect the bolts to have any holding strength.....
Definitely go with the welder...
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07-05-2007, 12:34 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
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Contrary to above advice, I would NOT weld -- Welding can weaken the box more than relatively small holes drilled in one side. Just get someone stronger to turn the wrench (this is a case where I would use the appropriate socket on my drill to push and turn, with the drill handle giving me a nice lever for torque compared to a screwdriver).
Also, I would NOT thru bolt with Grade 5 bolts for two reasons; that would be eight holes in the box, not four, and I would rather have the self tapping screws fail before the friction bar or (heaven forbid) tearing Grade 5 bolts or nuts out of the frame itself, doing a LOT of damage to both sides (envision an accident where the tow vehicle and trailer are jacknifed on the control side, compressing it until something gives...
Fuse Theory again, with the screws being the fuse. Trust the manf and use the hardware supplied.
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07-05-2007, 05:26 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler 1700SGH (Stage II twoftitis)
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Contrary to above advice, I would NOT weld -- Welding can weaken the box more than relatively small holes drilled in one side. Just get someone stronger to turn the wrench (this is a case where I would use the appropriate socket on my drill to push and turn, with the drill handle giving me a nice lever for torque compared to a screwdriver).
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Our trailer frames are made of mild steel... sheet metal if you will... They are not engineered and heat treated like modern truck frames, nor are they made of any sort of alloy... As such, the welding story is different on our trailers... I think you'd be hard pressed to authoritatively say that properly welding something on a trailer frame will make it weaker. Heck, if you were really worried, you could just fish-plate it but I would way sooner trust a proper weld over some cheap self-tapping screws that some manufacturer supplied; especiallly through 1/8" sheet metal.
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07-05-2007, 05:54 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
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This is the offending creature
The chunky "X"ed out bar is not needed in my case as my WDH drawbar is one big fat plate with two holes properly placed for the ball in it already (Right or left.. your choice)
There would be 8 holes on ONE side of the frame if installed per instruction. You can see a longer, wider backing plate and the square plate with the ball on it.
The welder I have is most excellent, I have bragged about him before, and he actually says either way will do, but welding can be done if I wish with no problems.
I trust this guy with a torch, he is the best around.
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07-05-2007, 11:18 PM
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#16
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Member
Trailer: Casita 17 ft Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 52
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Quote:
I trust this guy with a torch, he is the best around.
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He will most certainly MIG (or possibly TIG) it. Minimum localized heat. It should in no way weaken your frame.
Bob
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07-06-2007, 01:57 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
Our trailer frames are made of mild steel... sheet metal if you will... They are not engineered and heat treated like modern truck frames, nor are they made of any sort of alloy... As such, the welding story is different on our trailers... I think you'd be hard pressed to authoritatively say that properly welding something on a trailer frame will make it weaker. Heck, if you were really worried, you could just fish-plate it but I would way sooner trust a proper weld over some cheap self-tapping screws that some manufacturer supplied; especiallly through 1/8" sheet metal.
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Welding damage to the frame isn't primary reason I would prefer the screws; I WANT the screws to fail long before a weld would!
Yes, a competent welder can do it right, but I had a welder re-installing a new axle drag a partial bead (either in spite or ignorance) over the bottom of my box frame, resulting in a later crack and subsequent need for repair. The A-frame isn't as critical as the sway-plate area, but given my personal opinion that the sway control fastening should be the weak link, a welded plate wouldn't be the weak point. Harder to screw up installing a handful of selftapping screws compared to welding, plus if done perfectly, welding won't yield the results I desire. YMMV!
Clearly, her welder chose the screws over welding by telling her to do it herself, perhaps for economic reasons or perhaps for practical reasons. The control manf obivously believes the screws are sufficient or there wouldn't be screw holes in the plate and screws in the kit. Suz's installation relies on friction, not even screws, much less a weld...
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07-06-2007, 02:32 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
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Given the recent interest in Reese's Dual-Cam sway control add-on for weight-distribution systems, it may be of interest to note that the premium Dual-Cam HD version uses self-tapping screws to fasten the sway control brackets to the tongue in the case of box-section A-frame construction (C-channel A-frames are through-bolted).
A self-tapping screw in 1/8" material isn't very effective, but that may be good (Pete's point) and the friction-type sway control device will load the frame bracket in shear anyway, which in English means it tends to push or pull the bracket along the frame, not pull it out.
Why not rivet the bracket on? Just kidding... mostly.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
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07-06-2007, 04:32 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
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Quote:
Why not rivet the bracket on?
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Burro
No rivets...
Ever!
I trust Pete's opinion as well as my welders, and am not discounting it at all.. BUT.... The welder recommended I do it myself because he is honest and obviously, believed it an adequate and easy job for me to do.. as mentioned in my second post.. If he was out to make a buck, he wouldn't have told me that. If I had a little more muscle, it would be done already and this thread would not be as long as it is.
The last weld I had him do for me, which was WAY more complicated and critical than this (he did an extension on my drawbar) only cost 25 bones.
If he looks at it and says "Ya know, lets just do the screws" I will allow it, but will probably feel a bit squeemish as I have had the broken frame thing happen before on my 13 and still sting a bit from it..
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07-06-2007, 05:25 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
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Quote:
...If he looks at it and says "Ya know, lets just do the screws" I will allow it, but will probably feel a bit squeemish as I have had the broken frame thing happen before on my 13 and still sting a bit from it..
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It might make you feel better to know that the sides are vastly less critical than the top and bottom of a frame rail. Don't literally test this, but my guess is that you could drill these holes, at the spacing of the provided bracket, down the entire length of the tongue and have only corrosion (rust starting at every hole, water in the frame box...) as a concern. Right around the mid-height point of the frame is the least stressed position, which is why I-beams are routinely have access holes and lightening holes in the middle of their web.
The Monroe retrofit shock absorber kit installation includes drilling a 1/2" hole right though the frame (both sides if a box type), at a recommended 1-3/8" from the top (assuming a 4" high frame). I did it on my B1700, for "put your money where you mouth is" value...
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
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