Advisibility of using weight distribution hitch: pros and cons - Page 8 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 01-12-2013, 11:38 PM   #99
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Oh... was looking at some pictures and it dawned on me, the other reason why I needed to raise the tongue up some... I have a similar tongue jack on my little gypsy caravan thats on my ParkLiner, and they sit a few inches below the frame, well with how low the rav4 is to start, then add the soft rear I needed to raise it up some cause it dug in once when I was taking it up my friends mountin... switched to the taller hitch and didnt happen again!

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:23 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by deryk View Post
The airbags should alleviate the problem of the rear springs, that plus once I get some weight on the other side of the axle, There was 2- 20lb propane tanks mostly full and the rest of the trailer was empty.


deryk
Thanks for clarifying the ballmount type, Deryk!

And thanks also for bringing into focus an issue that it had never occurred to me existed...auto manufacturer overpromises.

It seems ridiculous to me that Toyota claims that the Rav 4 can manage 350 pounds of weight at the hitch "with tow package" - which package evidently does not include whatever suspension upfits are necessary to properly carry that much weight. And as I think you posted elsewhere, further "advises against" a weight distributing hitch...

Why should you, the end user, pay for/install the suspension component(s) that makes the 350 pound weight claim possible???

In my opinion, Toyota should revise that hitchweight number downwards to a number truly representative of the weight that can be carried on its so-called "tow ready" vehicle without causing the degree of squat/float we see in your pics.


Good luck, and enjoy the Parkliner -
(It's my favorite of the current crop of new trailers!)


Francesca
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:47 PM   #101
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As to the additional weight of the spare tire...?
What "additional" weight? That's the stock spare location on a RAV4.

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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
If by "stinger" you mean the ballmount/drawbar or whatchamacallit with the ball on it, added length definitely affects load at the tug, so it seems to me that it's an appropriate consideration here.
I agree. If the subject is the "advisability of using weight distribution", then hitch configuration issues such as this (the length of mount) are relevant. We went through this with the Jeep Liberty owners, who have a similar issue.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:49 PM   #102
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Here is a pic of my hitch, sorry the ParkLiner is down at my friends place an hour south of me.... Im working today on my first cushion cover.

deryk


Maybe with the airbags if it doesn't squat so much I can replace it with a 4" rise, but there is the issue of the tongue jack sitting 4-6 inches below the tongue, and my Rav4 is kinda low for starters
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #103
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Deryk,
I would also switch out that set up, after installing the air bags, and get a solid drawbar with the correct rise, maybe 6", hard to tell. Those clips are bearing the brunt of the weight and I'd like to see them eliminated. This should also bring the unit closer into the receiver which will benefit you also. I realize you want one universal set up for different trailers but sometimes it is best to have the correct set up custom for at least one unit.
The drawbars are not that expensive and you can always switch the ball from one to the other.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:03 PM   #104
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Can someone explain to me how, exactly, airbags "support weight" ??? Are they a substitute for what perhaps should have been a beefier suspension to begin with???
They are an additional spring. Since load changes (with number of passengers, amount of cargo, and hitch load), a suspension should ideally be able to change spring stiffness, and air springs provide that ability.

Without an adjustable spring, springs must be chosen at some compromise stiffness. In a typical station wagon (and yes, SUVs are station wagons) which is normally used for passengers and only light cargo, that compromise is on the soft side; for a commercial truck which must routinely carry heavy loads, it is on the stiff side. Since the vast majority of RAV4 owners presumably do not complain about a too-soft rear end (the ones I personally know do not), I don't think it "should" be stiffer ("beefier" implies strength, and there has no suggestion that the RAV4 suspension is weak, only soft).
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:05 PM   #105
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Thanks for clearing up a mystery, Brian..I didn't realize that the spare referred to in Jim's post below was about the RAV 4's spare- I thought he was referring to the trailer spare, which some folks do carry up front/on the roof.

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He has the long stinger because of the spare, it seems. He could mount the spare on roof as Jon did and perhaps shorten his stinger. Now let's not start a new direction on stinger sizes....
Fact is, though, stock or not, putting the RAV's spare on the roof and using a lighter, shorter ballmount would take a fair amount of weight off the "350 pound" rear load area- could be as much as fifty pounds to the good.

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Old 01-13-2013, 01:11 PM   #106
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Fact is, though, stock or not, putting the RAV's spare on the roof and using a lighter, shorter ballmount would take a fair amount of weight off the "350 pound" rear load area- could be as much as fifty pounds to the good.

Francesca


I agree, and the air bags will make for a nice ride also. He still needs to get a Sherline scale and get the exact amount of tongue weight also.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:41 PM   #107
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Tongue weight is the limiter of towing capacity for bumper-pull units.
It's not the limiter, it's a potential limiter. Many vehicles can easily reach their GVWR OR GCWR before the tongue weight limit is reached. Tongue weight limits are often set as a fraction of trailer weight; if that is 10% (as it typically is), and the trailer is lower the trailer limit will be hit first.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:49 PM   #108
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Apropos Jim's remarks re: hitch pins. They always bear weight or restrain a horizontal pull but there are too many "connections" in that adjustable ball platform. Still same difference and can be replaced when you get the RAV off the ground. Maybe one of us who has a Sherline can meet up with you this spring and establish your tongue weight. New Brunswick and Sayreville are about 100mi. from me. [Yes, Jim, I broke down and sprung for the scale on your rec.]

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Old 01-13-2013, 01:50 PM   #109
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Lever principle. That ball is extended way further back than mine and will affect the stance of the RAV. I have no issues with clearance between the trailer and the spare ( other than, I can only open the back door a few inches ). If you extend that stinger by a few feet, you can probably lift the front wheels of the RAV.

Anyway. Real weights, for what it's worth. These are from a highway truck scale during a trip a couple or three years ago. Referring to my log, I believe waste tanks were empty, fresh water maybe 1/3 full. Tongue weight would be about 315-320 ( I have a Sherline, but don't have a number on this trip. WDH in use.

RAV front axle 1080 Kg. ( 2380 Lb. )
Rear axle 970 Kg. ( 2138 Lb. )
Escape 17B trailer axle 1280 Kg. ( 2821 Lb. )
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:53 PM   #110
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This is from dozens of posts ago, but it has only been a couple of days...

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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Somehow I don't think that about 95% of those in the FGRV group would want a Commercial tractor type vehicle for the occasional use as a tow vehicle and more common use as daily transportation just to not need a WD Hitch.
My apologies if my post was not clear, but I certainly did not suggest the use of "commercial tractor type vehicles" for our eggs. Indeed, I didn't even mention tractors (trucks which have no box or deck and just tow) at all, or suggest the use of trucks for eggs at all.

Our trailers generally weigh less than our tugs. My comparison was to trucks which tow trailers which weigh more than the trucks, yet don't need WD systems... perhaps because they are not mushy soft in both suspension and tires, and are not too short in wheelbase for their hitch overhang.

Our Sienna minivan handles our 17' trailer fine, with no sway, and no WDH... and it is very far from a commercial highway tractor!
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:13 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post

...In my opinion, Toyota should revise that hitchweight number downwards to a number truly representative of the weight that can be carried on its so-called "tow ready" vehicle without causing the degree of squat/float we see in your pics.


Good luck, and enjoy the Parkliner -
(It's my favorite of the current crop of new trailers!)


Francesca
Well, Toyota did solve the problem - the 2013 RAV4 is no longer available with the V6 and according to the new Trailer Life "Guide to Towing" no longer has a tow rating at all.

By the way, it may be the Sport model suspension, but I only get a 1" drop with my RAV4 with 340 lbs hitch weight when dropping the tongue on the ball. I still prefer using the weight distribution hitch since it does transfer more weight to the front (drive) wheels. I sometimes tow a utility trailer w/o a WDH, and when heavily loaded, the traction & steering is uncomfortable!
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:21 PM   #112
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My RAV4 is also Sport model.
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