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Old 01-12-2013, 12:27 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
Not to split hairs, but TrilliumRV makes a 15' 4500, (1500) as well as the 13' 1300. It was the 15' unit that Tom Young was commenting.
Thanks for the correction, David. I had not realized - or had forgotten - that TrilliumRV eventually did make the larger model.

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Kinda a moot point, since the coupler to axle length is the same on both.
That doesn't seem to make sense: if the 1300 and 4500 were exactly the same length ball-to-axle, then all two additional feet of the 4500 would be between the axle and bumper - the trailer would be tail-heavy.

In fact, the model names only give approximate lengths, the spec difference is 22", and the side view drawings in the TrilliumRV brochure indicate that the tongue portion of frame ahead of the bodies is the same, about 2/3 of the additional body length is behind the axle, and the remaining 1/3 (perhaps 7") is ahead of the axle and adds to coupler-to-axle length. It isn't a lot of difference, and perhaps in real production units it is even further reduced by having less tongue length.

The change in proportions does affect the balance, shifting tongue weight as a fraction of unloaded trailer weight from 11.4% (1300) to 9.4% (4500).
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:28 PM   #62
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:32 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
I call em' "Air Springs" because that's what Firestone call's em'.
Both styles are springs. Coil-Rite are bags which require the surrounding coil spring for structure; Ride-Rites have reinforcement (like tire cords - not just a coincidence that these come from Firestone) because they don't go in a coil.

Air Lift is the other big brand in this market; Firestone is apparently the leader in the heavy truck field.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #64
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I think a conclusion that airbags are needed or even wise is premature in this case. IF all the numbers are correct and the (mfr.-approved?) w/d setup is properly adjusted, the tug should be much more level that it appears to be in the pics (Unhitched tug pictured for comparison):





If the w/d system can't be adjusted to level the rig as it's supposed to do, I frankly see little good in using it at all. This especially since any small (and secondary) contribution to sway control this w/d setup might make is negated by the tug's "nose float" that appears inevitable to me...

Also, the extra ball-to-tug length on the w/d adds to the already additional stresses caused by the heavier hitch setup itself.

It would be most interesting to see this trailer hooked to the tug without the w/d hitch, which in my opinion may be doing more harm than good.

Francesca
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:23 PM   #65
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Francesca,
Deryk does not have a w/d hitch on his vehicle nor is one shown in the pictures. That is why he is going with the air bags as an option. If there were a w/d hitch then the vehicle should be level if properly set up.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:26 PM   #66
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Beat me to it, Jim but +2 on the RAV/ParkLiner lashup. No "trailerwaver" there.

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Old 01-12-2013, 01:26 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Francesca,
Deryk does not have a w/d hitch on his vehicle nor is one shown in the pictures. That is why he is going with the air bags as an option. If there were a w/d hitch then the vehicle should be level if properly set up.
Good grief...I really do need an eye-check! My squinty-eyed scrutiny of the setup convinced me otherwise...

Why on earth is the ballmount so long, then????

I think there might be a lot of benefit in shortening that puppy up by a ways!

Francesca
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:29 PM   #68
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He has the long stinger because of the spare, it seems. He could mount the spare on roof as Jon did and perhaps shorten his stinger. Now let's not start a new direction on stinger sizes....
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:38 PM   #69
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If by "stinger" you mean the ballmount/drawbar or whatchamacallit with the ball on it, added length definitely affects load at the tug, so it seems to me that it's an appropriate consideration here.

As to the additional weight of the spare tire...?

I'm beginning to wonder if 350 pounds of tug hitch weight capacity is enough for all this!

Francesca
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:39 PM   #70
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Francesca, I just finishing going to grainy rez with <control +> and indeed your eyes did detect something wierd which I think is a big drop stinger turned upside down for big rise as part of attempt to level the PL. If the tongue weight got any heavier on the PL, the next step would be dragway wheelie bars to keep the RAV bumper off the ground.

I think Deryk will be happy with his hardened suspension. TIme will tell.

jack

Ah, Jim clears leather so fast! Actually, it does look like Deryk is attempting to avoid interference with the spare AND get the ball high. That explains both the length and the rise in that thang that we refer to in the vernackular as the stinger.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:58 PM   #71
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Now let's not start a new direction on stinger sizes....
Fractal thought branchings give some of us the shakes. These dern threads are supposed stay on topic, nine to the front six to the rear, eyes front, forraarhd haaarch!!!!!

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:19 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
If by "stinger" you mean the ballmount/drawbar or whatchamacallit with the ball on it,
I questioned Jim the same on the Escape forum. It must be an eastern term, as I had never heard it before. He explained it is called that because of the effect it has when you accidentally hit it with your shin. I kinda wonder if it is like a bee that its 'stinger' will pull out of its rear end.

Though, they do like to call a fridge a frig....funny peoples.

Anyhoo, back on topic. I agree with trying some sort of beefed up suspension first, especially if there is significant drop on the bumper when hitched to the trailer. If after that there are any control or traction problems, a WDH should be considered.

It would be nice to be able to just rent one first, to see if it does work as you hope it might.

This is what Honda says about using a WDH from my manual, though it does sound a wee bit like they are just covering their butt should one not be used right is all.

A weight distributing hitch is not
recommended for use with your
vehicle, as an improperly adjusted
weight distributing hitch may reduce
handling, stability, and braking
performance.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:24 PM   #73
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I have the same issue with my new FJ with the huge spare on the back, I found a jack that has a removable handle, will attempt a try out this week.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:25 PM   #74
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The thing that mystifies me is that this discussion is even going on surrounding such a light trailer and a tug that supposedly has 3500` pounds of towing capacity and 350 pounds of hitch WC...

It seems to me that there must be some wrong numbers somewhere!

Has the hitch/tongue combo been actually WEIGHED when all loaded up???

Francesca
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:30 PM   #75
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Towing capacity has little to do with tongue weight which you would think it should. A tug maybe able to pull (towing capacity) 9000 lbs like my truck, but my tongue capacity is limited by my Gross carrying capacity which is around 1400 lbs. This includes passengers, fuel and "stuff" in the bed plus my tongue weight.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Towing capacity has little to do with tongue weight which you would think it should. A tug maybe able to pull (towing capacity) 9000 lbs like my truck, but my tongue capacity is limited by my Gross carrying capacity which is around 1400 lbs. This includes passengers, fuel and "stuff" in the bed plus my tongue weight.
Tongue weight is the limiter of towing capacity for bumper-pull units.

Regardless of how much "capacity" is allowed by other factors, the top gross weight can't exceed tongue by a factor much greater than 12-15.

Francesca
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #77
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I do not believe that this is a bumper pull but is a frame mounted receiver which normally is higher than bumper pulls. The bumper pulls seemed to have vanished when all these safety and rear end collision spec's caused the bumper to no longer be as strong as it was back in the chrome days. Now they are made to absorb vs protect the vehicle.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:49 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I do not believe that this is a bumper pull but is a frame mounted receiver which normally is higher than bumper pulls. The bumper pulls seemed to have vanished when all these safety and rear end collision spec's caused the bumper to no longer be as strong as it was back in the chrome days. Now they are made to absorb vs protect the vehicle.
Looks like a semantics problem...

"Bumper pull trailer" doesn't differentiate between frame and bumper mounted hitches- it's a generic term used in the RV industry to differentiate from "fifth wheel trailer".

It covers all types of trailers/hitches attached at the rear of the vehicle, and the weight-bearing capacity at that point limits the total gross weight of the trailer to be pulled.


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Old 01-12-2013, 02:55 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
The thing that mystifies me is that this discussion is even going on surrounding such a light trailer and a tug that supposedly has 3500` pounds of towing capacity and 350 pounds of hitch WC...

Francesca
The dry weight of the ParkLiner is listed as 2100lb. I don't see that wgt. as being "light" for a 15" egg. Not that far off the dry wgt. of the old Burros which are longer, wider, double-hulled. I would hazard the guess that Deryk will be able to up that another 900lb. fairly easily. Let's say he only adds 700lb of gear, clothes, food staples, custom ugrades, awnings, aux. shelters and sunshades, Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples in six vols., etc. That's putting the trailer on a pretty severe diet imo, and he'll be up to 2800lb, which, if you believe in the 80% rule, puts the trailer wgt. at 80% of tow capacity with no consideration of tongue weight. That little light-weight trailer is right up against what the RAV is meant to do frame-wise, suspension-wise and very likely engine-wise. JMO. I don't know if Toyota is offering the 4L 6 in the RAV currently. That's the engine I have in the 4runner and I know there's a trailer back there.

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:58 PM   #80
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If that's what "bumper pull" means currently, there's something wrong with currency! Back in the day before I knew squat (now know 2 squats) about camping trailers, it denoted a little 1 7/8" ball bolted thru the bumper with which you pulled a little tinker toy of a utility trailer.

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