Advisibility of using weight distribution hitch: pros and cons

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by rabbit

If that's what "bumper pull" means currently, there's something wrong with currency! Back in the day before I knew squat (now know 2 squats) about camping trailers, it denoted a little 1 7/8" ball bolted thru the bumper with which you pulled a little tinker toy of a utility trailer.

jack

That's a "bumper hitch", Jack. As I believe it was called even back in the day...

It's different from a "frame-mounted hitch" because , as you note, it's on the bumper instead of mounted to the frame. Neither of these can be/are called "bumper pulls" That's a trailer-related word (see above).

Bumper hitches are rarely used these days and certainly type is another limiting factor when towing.

We'll talk about The Law of The Weakest Link later...

Francesca

P.S.

If the Rav4 has 3500/350 pounds of towing capacity built in, why is it squatting like a catcher behind the plate when hooked up to that 2800 pound trailer?

Methinks there's a bit of over/under-stating going on somewhere...perhaps in the as-built suspension???

F.

[David Tilston]

I'd say the squatting has something to do with that long "stinger". It is acting like a pry bar for the tongue weight. I have considered a long stinger on my van so I could mount bikes to the back of the van. I even got a bike rack that the "stinger" would slide through. I have not used it yet though.

I never inflated the air bags on my van to more then 30psi. I should have asked when I had them installed, what is the maximum pressure I can run them?

[Francesca Knowles]

I'd really like to get a closer look at Deryk's hitch setup...I'm still confused by what I'm seeing...Are we sure we're not looking at a w/d setup without the bars, just lengths of chain where the bars should be???

I bring this up partly because of the length and what looks like a lot of bulk up towards the tug, but that "safety chain" hookup looks more like a WDH attachment bracket, especially given the location on the tongue.

Other pics I've seen of Parkliners show them up near the ball...not that it matters, safety-wise, but that doesn't appear to be Parkliner's "stock" arrangement.



Francesca

[MC1]

Here is a pic of a pro set up with a lighter weight TV. The ball really should be as close to the back bumber as possible.

Note: Image taken from Airforums.com, post by Andrew T.

[rabbit]

I concede the distinction between bumper pull and bumper hitch, Francesca. The chunk of iron protruding from Deryk's receiver is comparable to the analogous piece of a WDH, namely the chunk of iron which sticks out of the receiver and to which the trunnion head is thru bolted but it is NOT a WHD. The triangular welded gusset is what makes this stinger/rowboat anchor look so beefy. There are no spring rods and no chain levers or other lift mech. on the tongue members. Hey, I know, we could ask Deryk!

jack

[Francesca Knowles]

O.K.!

HEY DERYK!!!!!

In case you think I wasn't asking you about your hitch setup, would you mind going back and looking at post number 83 I where mention my confusion about your hitch setup and hope for a closer look but without asking you a direct question?

THANKS!

Francesca

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

I'd say the squatting has something to do with that long "stinger".

Or it could be that Toyota has just put to soft a back end in the RAV4 for some mystical reason.

A couple of summers ago I traveled down the coast to the Bandon meet with a nice couple from Quebec who had just picked up a brand new Escape. He told me that he had air bags added to his then new RAV4, prior to picking up the trailer having read on a number of forums that RAV4's tended to squat more than one might expect based on tow capacity. He was very happy with the way the tug and trailer handled, if thats of any help to Deryk in regards to whether or not he has made the right choose to go with air bags.

[rabbit]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Or it could be that Honda has just put to soft a back end in the RAV4 for some mystical reason.

Didn't know the Toys had Honda suspensions. Live and Learn

jack

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Or it could be that Honda has just put to soft a back end in the RAV4 for some mystical reason.

Industrial sabotage, eh?
Well, that explains it...wonder how they got in to the Toyota factory?

Francesca

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by rabbit

Didn't know the Toys had Honda suspensions. Live and Learn

jack

sorry my error! Edited to correct. Got distracted re makes, as I was just looking at a letter in regards to a Honda parked in my driveway that apparently needs soom attention.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Carol H

sorry my error! Edited to correct. Got distracted re makes, as I was just looking at a letter in regards to a Honda parked in my driveway that apparently needs soom attention.

That Honda prolly belongs to a bunch of saboteurs hiding from the Toyota Security Team ...

Francesca

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Or it could be that Toyota has just put to soft a back end in the RAV4 for some mystical reason.

A couple of summers ago I traveled down the coast to the Bandon meet with a nice couple from Quebec who had just picked up a brand new Escape. He told me that he had air bags added to his then new RAV4, prior to picking up the trailer having read on a number of forums that RAV4's tended to squat more than one might expect based on tow capacity. He was very happy with the way the tug and trailer handled, if thats of any help to Deryk in regards to whether or not he has made the right choose to go with air bags.

Which confirms my suspicions. A wd hitch is meant to help a vehicle with a front/rear suspension already designed to adequately take the weight, but isn't balanced front/rear. (*Most* anything with a trailer is going to squat some.) If a rear suspension is too soft, then a wd hitch is only going to put excess load on the front of the tow vehicle and the trailer axle, making them support weight that the rear should be carrying. Air bags to help support the weight

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Air bags to help support the weight

I've always had a tough time with this concept...
Can someone explain to me how, exactly, airbags "support weight" ??? Are they a substitute for what perhaps should have been a beefier suspension to begin with???

Thanks!

Francesca

[rabbit]

Yes.

jack

[deryk]

Well just getting home from removeing my parents old garage door opener and installing the new one I bought for them for christmas...took a few hours longer then I expected... oh well

Ok, so the hitch Im useing is this one 8-in-1 Adjustable Ball Mount Hitch

I have it right about in the middle, I had a 2" drop upside down to give me a 2" rise because the trailer I built was sitting pretty low, and I take it off roading to a spot I camp at a lot up a dirt gravel road up the side of a mountain... beautifal spot but the hitch Im useing now, adjusted about halfway up gives it sufficient lift and I doubt its sticking that much further out then a 4" rise type. I dont want it too close that its gonna hit my tire cover (which I dont plan on removeing) and its nice to be able to raise it up higher or lower as the situation warrants.

The safety chains on my parkliner are attached behind the jack... I'd prefer it in front of it, specially with the frame mounted tow hitch, the spot to connect the chains to is kinda underneath a bit so I do need to measure it and replace the chains...

The airbags should alleviate the problem of the rear springs, that plus once I get some weight on the other side of the axle, There was 2- 20lb propane tanks mostly full and the rest of the trailer was empty.

When they comein and I can install the airbags, I will have to take a ride down to my friends house where my ParkLiner is at but probably wont be able to get down there for at least 3 weeks do to me donateing my time for our school's play (helpin build the sets) ad cooking for a firemans charity dinner... I usually try to keep busy jan-early april or I sit and play on the computer too much lol

deryk

[rabbit]

Thanks for putting a name to it, Deryk. And you're a good son.

jack

[deryk]

Thanks Jack, yeah Im sensing my own mortality seeing my parents getting older...I just wont do the sit at home and watch reruns all day...I want to seek out some adventure and good times!

From looking at the measurements I might be able to get the ball a little closer with a 4" rise type hitch but Im not spending a penney untill I get the airbags installed and get to hook it up and measure it. Most rav4 owners do go with the airbags... and for larger trailers add a wdh... we shall see, we shall see


deryk

[hotfishtacos]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

That said, I tow my Escape 19 with my Pilot, and do not use a WDH. Only on rough gravel uphills have I ever had a bit of an issue with slippage, though nothing that worried me at all. The later model Pilot ('09 and up) come equipped to tow with the hitch being standard, and nice stiff rear ends. I have the touring model that was just plug n' play.

I pull my 19' Escape with a 2010 4WD Honda Pilot and use a WDH because I wanted to be able to tow my trailer off-road or anywhere under any condition and not worry about traction. My front wheel drive (normally) Pilot pulls the trailer like it isn't there and the WDH keeps the whole package level and very stable. It is an Equal-I-Zer hitch and is very heavy but I really like my setup and have no sway issues either.

[deryk]

Oh... was looking at some pictures and it dawned on me, the other reason why I needed to raise the tongue up some... I have a similar tongue jack on my little gypsy caravan thats on my ParkLiner, and they sit a few inches below the frame, well with how low the rav4 is to start, then add the soft rear I needed to raise it up some cause it dug in once when I was taking it up my friends mountin... switched to the taller hitch and didnt happen again!

deryk

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by deryk

The airbags should alleviate the problem of the rear springs, that plus once I get some weight on the other side of the axle, There was 2- 20lb propane tanks mostly full and the rest of the trailer was empty.


deryk

Thanks for clarifying the ballmount type, Deryk!

And thanks also for bringing into focus an issue that it had never occurred to me existed...auto manufacturer overpromises.

It seems ridiculous to me that Toyota claims that the Rav 4 can manage 350 pounds of weight at the hitch "with tow package" - which package evidently does not include whatever suspension upfits are necessary to properly carry that much weight. And as I think you posted elsewhere, further "advises against" a weight distributing hitch...

Why should you, the end user, pay for/install the suspension component(s) that makes the 350 pound weight claim possible???

In my opinion, Toyota should revise that hitchweight number downwards to a number truly representative of the weight that can be carried on its so-called "tow ready" vehicle without causing the degree of squat/float we see in your pics.


Good luck, and enjoy the Parkliner -
(It's my favorite of the current crop of new trailers!)


Francesca