Advisibility of using weight distribution hitch: pros and cons

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by deryk

...but Maaaaaah lol

deryk

Don't "Ma" me- especially in front of all these non-family members!

We'll talk about it next time you come Home For The Holidays...

Ma

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

The air bags may eliminate squat, but I gather, from my limited understanding of engineering, that they would not transfer weight to the front axle of the tow ( and the trailer axle ).
I believe that the RAV4 runs mainly in front-wheel drive and that the rear wheels are engaged when the vehicle senses that traction is required. So, I wonder what the effects are on traction, fuel economy, stability?
Got no answers. Just asking.

Correct, no weight transfer, but many vehicles may not need the weight transfer. Deryk said his handled fine, just squatted. IMHO, air bags are a more proper fix than a wdh that stresses the trailer frame, in his case.

You know what they say about opinions, though...

[rabbit]

Apropos of the probability of a closed thread, I don't see that happening if participants avoid impugning the character, motives, and intelligence of others. Sarcasm, flippancy, and condescension are very effective in rousing the emotions and defense mechanisms of those they're directed toward. Some folks have a lot of these arrows in their quiver and know how to hit the mark. Please rally your evidence and address the issue, quibble with the fine points, make your expert qualifications, even go so far as to tease those whom you know can take it as well as dish it. If you find that your friendly antagonist is not dealing well with the arrows in your intellectural quiver, please back off a bit. Give ground with style and subtlety. There is such a thing as a strategic retreat that leaves all standing. A bit of good humor is a welcome breather. It is possible to acquire a taste for harmony as well as strife and keep the good opnion of most if not all the people you encounter on this site.

jack

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

A W/D system works by distributing added weight (evenly if properly adjusted) throughout the tow vehicle.

Although a WD system is typically used to compensate for the effect of a trailer's tongue weight, its operation has nothing to with that weight: the tongue weight is not distributed, rather some of the load on the tug's rear axle is redistributed to the other axles. A bare trailer chassis with zero tongue weight could be used as a platform for a WD system to redistribute any amount of load, up to the entire rear axle load, or until something breaks.

There's nothing "even" (or "equalized") about this - the proportions of the redistribution are determined entirely by geometry (the ratio of rear-axle-to-trailer-axle length and wheelbase).

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

Well if the trailer manufacturer saying not to use one is an "excuse", then call me excused. I read on this site that Escape is also not recommending them.

....and it's true enough that if either the trailer mfr or the car mfr says don't use one, then that would be good advice to follow. It might also suggest that the TV and trailer might not be the best match ?

[Ice-breaker]

I plan on getting a WDH for use with my Escape when I pick it up in April.

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

....and it's true enough that if either the trailer mfr or the car mfr says don't use one, then that would be good advice to follow. It might also suggest that the TV and trailer might not be the best match ?

??? Not sure how my trailer manufacture recommending no WD hitch makes it not a good fit for my TV. Are you saying that any trailer that is not recommended for use with a WD hitch is a bad fit?
The Savana van I use hardly notices the little Trillium 4500. I did put in air bags on the van, just in case we load the trailer up to the point of sagging the back of the van, but we have yet to run into that.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

??? Not sure how my trailer manufacture recommending no WD hitch makes it not a good fit for my TV. Are you saying that any trailer that is not recommended for use with a WD hitch is a bad fit?
The Savana van I use hardly notices the little Trillium 4500. I did put in air bags on the van, just in case we load the trailer up to the point of sagging the back of the van, but we have yet to run into that.

What I am trying to say ( in a not very clear way ! ) is that let's say we have a tow vehicle that the car company says "WD not allowed". Now let's further assume we are trying to hitch up a trailer that is adding 400 pounds of tongue weight, and has a rather long overhang ( distance from the rear axle of the TV to the hitch ball ). This might mean that we have a combined rig "that is not a good fit". Because let's further assume this same combo, but the car mfr says "WD recommended". In that case, a WD hitch would allow us to restore the front axle load to near or the same as unhitched value. That would likely be considered a good fit.

Let me give you another real world example. If I were to hook my camper, with it's 400 plus pounds of tongue weight to our F350 dually, which has a very heavy diesel engine sitting on the front axle, I would not bother doing WD. This truck barely even knows it when you put 400-500 pounds on the hitch.

Let's look at another example. My Nissan Frontier "requires WD" for tongue weight over 450 pounds if I remember right. So lets say I have a camper, like I have, that is around that tongue weight. But....let's say the camper mfr says "WD not allowed". This would be a "poor combination" in my mind. Because the truck requires it, but the trailer company bans it, because perhaps their frame may not be designed to accept those stresses.

All I am saying is that the tow vehicle and trailer both need to be given consideration when deciding what to match up. Some combos are good match up, some are not.

[gmw photos]

So I suppose to summarize the OP original question of "pro and cons", we could say ( and others certainly jump in here and add to or modify what I post ):

Pros:

Restores weight to the front axle, and distributes a percentage of tongue weight to the trailer axles
Can, in certain designs, incorporate sway control
Makes tow vehicle and trailer feel "as one unit" while driving
Can, when properly set up, improve ride of TV, due to TV being properly balanced front to rear

Cons:

Adds weight
Costs money
May be prohibited by TV or Trailer mfr
Adds complexity/time in hitching/unhitching
Some designs may require being disconnected when traversing very uneven ground or backing up ( this may also be true of some sway control devices, irrespective of WD )


EDIT: certainly, it behooves the individual to do some homework on the different types, designs, manufacturers, proper setup, etc when considering the merits or needs of using a WD hitch for your combo of TV and trailer.

[Thomas G.]

I wonder why some vehicles don't allow a WDH. Is it because of the way the hitch is fastened to the vehicle? I notice that at CanAm, they modify the hitches with a forward arm to attach to something solid like the rear axle attachment point to counter the moment put on the TV attachment by the WDH.

[Francesca Knowles]

Some vehicle manufacturers advise against w/d hitches because the sheet metal that makes up the vehicle "frame" is not designed to withstand the stresses associated with such "redistribution" of the load.

Francesca

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

I wonder why some vehicles don't allow a WDH. Is it because of the way the hitch is fastened to the vehicle? I notice that at CanAm, they modify the hitches with a forward arm to attach to something solid like the rear axle attachment point to counter the moment put on the TV attachment by the WDH.

Can only tell you what the service manager at our local Subaru told me (and he does tow with his Outback as well) as to why Subaru does not recommend the use of a WD on their vehicles. He indicated that Subaru's all wheel drive system can be impacted and result in loss of traction under certain conditions due to the weight transfer that takes place with the WD. I do know that Subaru uses a slightly different All Wheel Drive system than most of the other car manufactures so no idea if the same would apply to some of the other all wheel drive designs or not.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Carol H

.... He indicated that Subaru's all wheel drive system can be impacted and result in loss of traction under certain conditions due to the weight transfer that takes place with the WD............

Hmmm... interesting. I wonder exactly what that means.

Intuitively, it seems like a WDH would mean a more even weight distribution on all 4 wheels when towing.

[cpaharley2008]

With todays modern automobile systems and computers, the car is supposed to think for itself and apply drive where it is needed.. Sometimes adding old school mechanical systems to modern electronic systems may not work.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

Hmmm... interesting. I wonder exactly what that means.
Intuitively, it seems like a WDH would mean a more even weight distribution on all 4 wheels when towing.

Wish I could tell you but it would seem that they have designed the car to tow within its specs well, so it really doesn't need a WD. At its max tongue weight limit the car doesn't do much in the way of a squat. It has good traction while towing in rain soaked freeways here on the wet coast and even the occasional unintended tow on snow. So no need for me to attempt my own real life experiment to prove the service manager right or wrong on the topic of handling/traction and a WDH.

All I can tell you is as I mentioned that Subaru has a bit of a different all wheel drive system than other car manufactures - which is why I suspect they stand out in regards to handling in the snow. They call it an Symmetrical all Wheel Drive system - what ever that may mean I do know that there is power to all the wheels at all times other manufactures all wheel drive or front wheel drive systems that only shift the power to the wheels as needed such as when a loss of traction is detected or a switch need to be hit to put them into all wheel drive mode.

Edit to add: I do know that locally we do have someone pulling with a Subaru Forester and the party does use a WDH (due to the trailer they are hauling is heavier on the tongue than the cars specs). I know they have towed for a few years with their set up, thousands and thousands of miles - not week-end only campers. Don't believe they had any special work done on the hitch attachment points either. As far as I know they have not experienced any handling/traction issues or the hitch pulling out from the cars under body mounts. So it would seem that perhaps my service manager is incorrect and perhaps the suggestion above that its due to the added weight to attachment points do not apply & it may be the same old problem with many of these topics - its pretty well a guessing game as to why they manufacture doesnt want a WDH used or it could be that the party using the WDH has just been luck.

[cpaharley2008]

I read somewhere that there is more electronics in todays cars than in a first generation Boeing 707.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I read somewhere that there is more electronics in todays cars than in a first generation Boeing 707.

Way more than Apollo ship to the moon.

[Glenn Baglo]

In my 2008 RAV4 user manual, important information is highlighted in yellow and, if it's really, really important, it's in a yellow box.
The manual says in regular old black and white that Toyota does not recommend a WDH. Jon has a 2010 RAV4 and there is no reference to WDH in his manual.

Anyway, I attempted to get clarification from Toyota Canada back in 2008, but have had no response or acknowledgment of my email. Not sure why they have "contact us" when they go out of their way to hide it and then don't respond anyway.

The Hidden Hitch class III receiver for the WDH was installed in the Toyota dealership shop prior to delivery, for what that's worth.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

I wonder why some vehicles don't allow a WDH. Is it because of the way the hitch is fastened to the vehicle? I notice that at CanAm, they modify the hitches with a forward arm to attach to something solid like the rear axle attachment point to counter the moment put on the TV attachment by the WDH.

Agree Tom. Their custom fabrications are a piece of art. The first time I checked out a Can AM reciever I knew Can AM was not your average rv store.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

The Hidden Hitch class III receiver for the WDH was installed in the Toyota dealership shop prior to delivery, for what that's worth.

Well, if it's the " Hidden Hitch" model at this link, do keep in mind that its tongue weight limit for use with a w/d system is 400 pounds.

Francesca