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Old 02-15-2012, 12:31 AM   #61
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Name: Russ
Trailer: Scamp 16' side dinette, Airstream Safari 19'
California
Posts: 588
I tow a 16' Scamp behind my lifted Jeep Wrangler. It seems to tow well as far as tracking and no sway when loaded with correct tongue weight. The back of the jeep doesn't drop at all because I have air suspension which uses height sensors at each wheel to always keep the rig level. However I noticed when going over big bumps I would notice a rattling noise as if something is loose in the coupling between the trailor and tv.
I checked the coupling and found the adjustment nut under the clamp fork was pretty loose. I tightened it until there was just perceptable play. I then tested the hitching/unhitching function and found the hitch would not uncouple with the latch wide open. I then loosened the nut until it would uncouple and couple with no issues or false coupling. But it rattled again! Grrrrr.... It seems to me the fork or pawl is designed wrong. It should allow the removal of slop and still release and latch without hanging up. I will dismantle it and check for wear or design issues and modify to function properly. The rattling on bumps is annoying. The hitch is stamped 2" and the ball is 2".
Russ
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:16 AM   #62
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Being screwed.

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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
It's a dry sunny day, good for getting down on the ground and perfect for testing the ball's locking lever.

I hesitate to write about our solution because probably no one else will have this problem. I will say if you haven't gotten down and looked at your locking lever in action, it's a good exercise.

In our case a previous owner added a cosmetic piece to the edge of our tongue, around the ball area. He used two screws to hold this rubber piece on. It turns out that it's possible for the tips of these screws to interfer with the ball's latch preventing a real lock.

I believe the problem of a false latching is now fixed, screws gone.
Congratulation on pointing the source of your problem. Any owners modifications tend to make me nervous even thou there are often OK. A few years ago a friend of mine bought an older BMW motorcycle from his friend. Driving back home he ended up in a ditch. The previous owner, his friend, made a cruise control invention by inserting a “SCREW” in the throttle handle. Imagine a panic of my friend trying to slow down in a turn, well, they are still close friends. So, buying used modified stuff needs a special attention.

George.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:00 AM   #63
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Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I agree with you Dave, it seems that there are 2 types of people in the world, rule followers and rule breakers. I spent most of my life dealing with rule breakers thru work. It's the same with towing. According to Frederick's weight table, of the 103 trailers weighed all but a handful of the smallest trailers exceed Subaru's factory specifications. All of the 13' Scamps do and then the list just goes up from there.
My Scamp 13 does not exceed my Subaru's tow rating. Not sure where you came up with that.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:15 AM   #64
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Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrew View Post
My Scamp 13 does not exceed my Subaru's tow rating. Not sure where you came up with that.
My comment was based upon Frederick's weight postings here
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html
If yours was not listed then that is unknown.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:19 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruscal View Post
I tow a 16' Scamp behind my lifted Jeep Wrangler. It seems to tow well as far as tracking and no sway when loaded with correct tongue weight. The back of the jeep doesn't drop at all because I have air suspension which uses height sensors at each wheel to always keep the rig level. However I noticed when going over big bumps I would notice a rattling noise as if something is loose in the coupling between the trailor and tv.
I checked the coupling and found the adjustment nut under the clamp fork was pretty loose. I tightened it until there was just perceptable play. I then tested the hitching/unhitching function and found the hitch would not uncouple with the latch wide open. I then loosened the nut until it would uncouple and couple with no issues or false coupling. But it rattled again! Grrrrr.... It seems to me the fork or pawl is designed wrong. It should allow the removal of slop and still release and latch without hanging up. I will dismantle it and check for wear or design issues and modify to function properly. The rattling on bumps is annoying. The hitch is stamped 2" and the ball is 2".
Russ
I think that spring not only holds the coupler on the ball but also allows some flexibility due to 2 vehicles not responding the same to road conditions, i.e. your car and trailer. Perhaps the spring is worn? But if you make it so tight that there is no play, they you may have other issues at that point. ETrailer.com has a lot of useful info on couplings.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:17 AM   #66
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Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

My comment was based upon Frederick's weight postings here
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html
If yours was not listed then that is unknown.
Since most people tow with a truck, they are usually not concerned with tongue weight. The (somewhat flawed) thinking is that more tongue weight is always better. However, I load my Scamp with a low tongue weight in mind. At the CAT scale, my Scamp came in right about 1,200 pounds, and the tongue weight was about 145. I have since made modifications to lower that even more (fiberglass LP tank and relocation of certain items).

That weight is not the "camping-ready" weight. It would weigh about 200 pounds more on the road. All of this is well within the dumbed down US tow rating for my Outback. It is also within the class 1 rating of the coupler on my Scamp. I believe they went to a beefier class 2 coupler in later years.
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SOLD! - 1984 Scamp 13 in Maryland.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:37 AM   #67
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Name: george
Trailer: FunFinder
Missouri
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Well, regarding tongue weight, there are some good reasons for having a correct amount of tongue weight. If you've never towed something with inadequate tongue weight, you should try it sometime. It's real special

I towed a borrowed homemade trailer one time that we used for a homecoming float. LOL....I told the guy that owned it later that the trailer should be donated to an engineering school as an example of how to not build a trailer !

george
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:08 PM   #68
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Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw photos
Well, regarding tongue weight, there are some good reasons for having a correct amount of tongue weight. If you've never towed something with inadequate tongue weight, you should try it sometime. It's real special

I towed a borrowed homemade trailer one time that we used for a homecoming float. LOL....I told the guy that owned it later that the trailer should be donated to an engineering school as an example of how to not build a trailer !

george
Yes. There is such a thing as "correct" tongue weight. However, more is not always better -- especially when towing with a car or a car-based SUV. More tongue weight also puts more stress on the frame and coupler of the trailer. Again, my Scamp has a class 1 coupler, so it is not designed to have more than 200 pounds at the tongue. Also, many people simply drive too fast. Speed increases the chance of sway.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:19 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by mcbrew View Post
My Scamp 13 does not exceed my Subaru's tow rating. Not sure where you came up with that.
Neither does my 16' Jessie and it is on the list......
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:23 PM   #70
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Name: Roger
Trailer: U Hall VT
Michigan
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When loading for camping, we guess at the weight we have on the tongue 10 percent is what we need to aim for and a swaybar will help to correct.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:25 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
Well, regarding tongue weight, there are some good reasons for having a correct amount of tongue weight. If you've never towed something with inadequate tongue weight, you should try it sometime. It's real special

george
George you are correct in regards to ensuring that the tongue weight is correct but what some people here don't seem to realize is that not all auto manufactures are the same in regards to the tongue/weight ratio they recommend & have tested by their engineering teams. I suspect this has to do with the fact different auto manufactures are using different drive systems. So the old school thinking as to what is a safe ratio does not necessarily apply with some of the newer autos. Again its important that people read the manual.

Now back to the topic of WD.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:54 PM   #72
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I thought that the tongue weight issue was about trailer stability not TV stability.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:13 PM   #73
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Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
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Tongue weight

Our trailer weighs 2400 pounds including the tongue weight. Our tongue weight is 200 pounds, +/- depending on propane tank and ...

I guess that puts us between 8 and 9% on the percentage on the hitch. Originally we towed the Scamp without an anti-sway bar. We never saw any sway before the sway bar and since we've had the anti-sway bar we haven't seen any sway.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:28 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by BC Paul View Post
I thought that the tongue weight issue was about trailer stability not TV stability.
LOL you have hit the nail on the head Paul! If you put a greater % of tongue weight on vehicle than what the manufactures states it should have and if that vehicle has one of the newer drive system or body designs - as you know there are many different types drive systems out there and they do not all work the same, you may be creating a serious problem in regards to the vehicles stability and safe handling. Who wants to be the one to discover the hard way that there is a real good reason for the manufacture to put the specs they do into their manuals :-)

I don't know about you but I feel safer going with what the engineers who made the car and did the crash testing recommend rather than going with the general rule of thumb that started long before some of the types of drive systems &/or body type designs in place today where even developed.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:38 PM   #75
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Name: george
Trailer: FunFinder
Missouri
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Well, okay, how about this: I just looked online for a 2011 Scooby-Doo Outback. It says, tow capacity 3000 pounds. Tongue weight must never exceed 200 pounds. Tongue weight must be between 8 and 11% of trailer weight. According to my handy dandy calculator, 8 to 11 percent of 3000 pounds equals 240-330 pounds. Hmmm, the plot thickens. Apparently the "tongue weight guys" were out playing golf the day the "tow capacity guys" were having their discussion.

Tongue weight is primarily intended for the trailer, not the tow vehicle. In a general sense, within reason of course, more tongue weight is better. The only folks I've ever seen who try to argue that "less is better", is usually someone trying to justify towing "too much trailer behind too small a tow vehicle".

The extreme example of lots of tongue weight is to look at where the trailer wheels are on a 40' van/trailer behind a class eight truck ( 18 wheeler ). Those wheels are all the way at the back, in order to place a greater percentage of the load on the pin ( that would be "tongue weight" ). Another example would be if you look at my 33' gooseneck horse trailer....again, the trailer axles are almost to the back of the trailer. Lots of weight on the pin, equals lots of stability. Nails the back of the F-350 dually to the road. Nice. Very nice.
There is a reason that vehicles that are designed with towing in mind have solid rear axles and typically leaf springs ( usually fairly stiff ). The reason is, that makes a tow vehicle that is sturdy in the rear end, and able to carry correct tongue weights. All other designs begin to compromise any number of important performance parameters regarding safe handling, wheel alignment, driveline angles ( u-joint or CV joint angular deflection ), bump steer, etc.

Y'all can tow whatever trailer you want with whatever you feel will work, but in a broad sense, running these tow vehicles close to or over the limits that the factory specifies is a roll of the dice on any number of fronts. The more "reserve" you have, the better. I wish you all safe towing, and a healthy dose of good luck.

george
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:49 PM   #76
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Apparently the "tongue weight guys" were out playing golf the day the "tow capacity guys" were having their discussion.
george
Either that or they are playing it safe in setting a tongue weight low that makes sure that people have safe margin left over of total tow capacity
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:48 PM   #77
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I read about the importance of 15% tongue weight but technically I don't understand the need. We're at about 60% of that value and I haven't seen any issues.

I will say that we run our Honda's rear tires stiffer than most people so the push of the trailer faces more side force resistance to tire sidewall rollover at the rear tires.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:08 PM   #78
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Name: george
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I read about the importance of 15% tongue weight but technically I don't understand the need. We're at about 60% of that value and I haven't seen any issues.

I will say that we run our Honda's rear tires stiffer than most people so the push of the trailer faces more side force resistance to tire sidewall rollover at the rear tires.
And that's certainly a good idea and point made Norm. Typically P metric tires are run at 35 psi, but often are rated to carry 44psi to gain max load capacity. Running the rears at 42 to 44, plus running the steer tires at 38 to 42 makes good sense.
I use a non contact IR thermometer also to keep tabs on tire, brake, bearing and diff housing temps. Any "tool" I can use to help me spot trouble early is given consideration.

But then I'm also the guy you will see with, literally, a bright red laminated "check sheet" in my hand as I walk around doing final inspection before leaving. I don't like leaving safety issues to chance. Would any of us want to fly in an airplane that the crew failed to use a pre-light checklist ? I know I wouldn't. Checklists work, plain and simple.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:20 PM   #79
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Either that or they are playing it safe in setting a tongue weight low that makes sure that people have safe margin left over of total tow capacity
The bottom line is though, according to their own specs, if you cannot exceed 200 lbs tongue, and you must maintain a minimum of 8%, the the real total capacity is actually 2500.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:26 PM   #80
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george,

I run my Honda rears at 39 psi and my fronts at 34 psi and my trailer tires around 47 psi. This compares to a normal 26 front and rear on the Honda.

As well, though my Honda is old, I added pressure sensors to the rear tires, giving me tire pressure and temperatures on the Honda rears and the trailer.

Once we get going the rears get to the 44 psi and are always warmer than the trailer tires. Once running the trailer tires quickly get up to 50 psi

The pressure readings seem to be accurate to +/- 1 pound compared to my digital gauge. I don't know how accurate the temperature reading is though I do own a non contact IR thermoneter.

Of course with temperature and pressure I'm looking for 'strange' change. I will say when I start off in the morning the temperature readings are around ambient.

For the record we've always run Bridgestone Duelers (they came with the Honda) and Goodyear Marathons on our trailers.
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