Anyone tow w/Honda pilot & 17FT. Casita

[FlyGuy]

Back in August 2010, I bought a new 17' Casita Spirit Deluxe and picked it up at the factory in Rice, TX. The folks at the factory were very happy that the temperature had dropped to only 105ºF! My tow vehicle then was a 2004 Toyota Sienna minivan that had the Factory Tow package (giving me a tow rating of 3,500#). I headed from the factory directly to the Burning Man Festival in Nevada's Black Rock Desert (~ 2000 miles over flats and mountain terrain). I had NO trouble with the tow and, towing with my minivan, crossed the Continental Divide several times that year. In subsequent years, I returned to Burning Man, drove to Leadville, CO (10,000' PLUS above sea level) and, drove across numerous mountains while out west, ALL without issue. My Sienna had the standard 3.3L engine and a "regular" automatic transmission. I can't say how well a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) tows; that would be my only real concern BUT, if Honda says it has a tow capacity of 5,000#, I expect Honda has faith in their CVT/engine package. I DID upgrade the Toyota factory hitch to a Class-3 Weight Distributing Hitch and, installed an anti-sway bar but, those last two items would be needed in many set ups.

Make sure you get the right hitch AND, that the set up is correct (once properly hitched up, the tow vehicle AND trailer should be LEVEL (NOT nose up/down on either the tow vehicle or trailer).

[Montana Brad]

Thank you for responding to my questions.I have learned so much over the last few months using this forum.I did look back on the Casita club forum and could not find the answer to my above question there.Because I have learned so much on this forum I decided to ask it here.I hope the answers to my questions also help others.
Because of many answers and my experiences we have made our decision.Yesterday I purchased a 2019 Honda pilot AWD V6 6 speed transmission, has a 5000k tow rating and tow package including the trans cooler.When you buy new the warranty is 36k on the tow package(if purchased after it is only 12K).I upgraded the factory added poor tires to Michelin ltx defender m/s as part of the deal.If you live in a northern climate you should not keep the factory tires.
I own two Honda crvs and one went as part of this deal as a trade.I started this search thinking I would buy a Dodge ram and a Oliver or Escape trailer(cost and need were the main factors against).Now I have a Honda pilot.I may purchase a Casita in the spring if not sooner unless I find something different that I like.
Why did I choose what I did? There are many reasons.One is my wife and I decided we are selling our home because we both retired this year. Something we will do in the late spring of 2019.We have been searching for a new place to live for a few years.We though we would travel full time in a trailer until we found a place.This fall we made another of our many trips to the west coast(only hold back here was warmer weather) as we both would like to live near the ocean and be warmer but not in California.We think we found a town which we will either rent there or live in a travel trailer for a few months before we buy to confirm it.
We will be doing less trailer traveling that we originally though but we will do some and now have the start of the equipment to do it.
Why not a truck (we really liked the 2019 Dodge Ram 5.7)? Since this purchase will be our full time vehicle a pilot lets us have better gas mileage when not towing.We have more interior covered secure space.It is easier to get in and out of.
We really wanted to buy a Toyota so we test drove a Toyota Highlander(awful 8 speed transmission and stiff bouncy ride).Toyota 4runner( we did not need the off road style which was the positive ,also a plus is the in and out 2x4 to 4x4 drive).Also tested a AWD Sienna van(again an awful 8 speed transmission and a bulky feeling vehicle although the biggest interior for carrying stuff.
Life is moving forward.Bob passed away this fall and has not been reincarnated.

Montana Brad

[SHIBSHI]

This is our second season towing a 17' Casita with a 2014 Honda Pilot. We LOVE it! Our previous combination was a 2008 Ford Escape and a 16' Scamp.
The Pilot is so smooth as it pulls the Casita. Now, we have not done any mountain trips or to the southwest, but it never tugs or strains as our previous combination did.
We have friends with a new Pilot. They tow a 16' Scamp. They love theirs too. I don't know about other TV's, but the Pilot is a winner in our book.

[Al Ross]

We pulled 17" Casita SD round trip Florida- Oregon three times with visits to the Rockies each way. Pilot does well, even with the Honda mistake of being able to lock in D3 instead of D4. We started first trip with new Honda, by the time we reached Wyoming the tranny had it figured out and stopped hunting. We had standard tow package. Milage did go to 11-12mpg range. On the 2011 you can replace the donut spare with a full size rim and tire. That is a very huge consideration.
Look closely in the manual, sales people said it could not be done.
We pull a 19" Escape the the Pilot which is approx 300-400 lbs more but two axels make it very stable.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Montana Brad

Thank you for responding to my questions.
<snip>
Life is moving forward.Bob passed away this fall and has not been reincarnated.

Montana Brad

Brad,

You've been a good heart as we have worn the joke about Bob thinner than an old silver dime. Now that he's gone, we can leave him rest in peace.

I'm glad to see that you landed on a rig that will make you happy. The 'wet' coast will be a huge change from the high country there, please continue to keep us posted.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by FlyGuy

...BUT, if Honda says it has a tow capacity of 5,000#, I expect Honda has faith in their CVT/engine package...

The Pilot and Ridgeline have conventional automatic transmissions. (Honda does use a CVT in the CR-V and a number of other smaller vehicles.)

They offer two transmissions in the Pilot. Lower trims have a 6-speed and top trims have a 9-speed. In the first years of the redesign I was reading about issues with the 9-speed. Don't know if it's been resolved, but I'd be inclined look for one with the 6-speed.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Al Ross

We pulled 17" Casita SD round trip Florida- Oregon three times with visits to the Rockies each way. Pilot does well, even with the Honda mistake of being able to lock in D3 instead of D4...

On the old 5-speed Pilots, both D4 and D5 are overdrive ratios. For that reason, you would not want to use D4 for hill-climbing anyway.

There is a trick to engage D4 on a gentle-to-moderate downgrade, though. When you crest a hill, set the cruise control a little below your desired descent speed. At about 4 mph over the set speed, the transmission will automatically downshift from D5 to D4. On a moderate slope, that gives enough engine braking to hold speed without braking. If not, you need D3 anyway.

Ours is a 2011 LX 2WD. We tow a Scamp 13 and a fairly full vehicle- 4 people and gear. Lots of mountains and canyons in our corner of Arizona. Like you I have often wished for a full manual mode, but there are work-arounds.

I'm curious, Brad... does the new Pilot 6-speed have a full manual mode? I am a bit surprised you found the Highlander ride stiffer than a Pilot. Back when I bought ours (2013) it was the other way round, but both have gone through a major redesign.

Best wishes moving forward!

[Uplander]

The Honda Ridgeline is not a truck in the purest since of “Truck” as it does not have a frame....it is a unibody type vehicle....real trucks are built on frames and therefore are stronger with higher load ratings and can tow more weight safely.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Uplander

The Honda Ridgeline is not a truck in the purest since of “Truck” as it does not have a frame....it is a unibody type vehicle....real trucks are built on frames and therefore are stronger with higher load ratings and can tow more weight safely.

Following that logic, "real" cars are built on a frame, because that's how they were once built.

[Montana Brad]

This is a great site for information on Honda Pilots:

https://www.piloteers.org

[Montana Brad]

John,
I purchased the ex model with 6 speed transmission.As far as I know the manual mode is only on the 9 speed.I suggest you test drive a new Highlander.Its free and the sharks at the dealership will love to see you!!

[jimiller5]

I have put more than 16,000 towing miles on my 2017 Pilot/Casita SD17 this year. The Pilot is a very capable TV for the Casita. It has plenty of power, great mileage (18.9 average according to my scan gauge) and is quite comfortable on long hauls. There is plenty of cargo space with both back seats folded. Our former TV was a 2015 Tacoma 4x4, and there is no comparison in comfort and convenience.

[GatorCasita]

How slowly do you tow to get 18.9 MPG towing? Since I get about 11 MPG towing my 17 FD with my 2008 Ridgeline, I find that amazing. Another Ridgeline agreed that she got only about 11 MPG towing a 17 SD. Or maybe the 18.9 MPG is what you get when not towing. Or maybe you are one of those who tow at 55 MPH and never over 60? I do think that mileage for the Honda V-6 engine goes down drastically with speed above 55/60 MPH, so please clarify. Otherwise, you have a very special engine.

[jimiller5]

My sweet spot is 62 mph. The 18+ towing mileage was over an 8,000 mile five week trip and verified by both my on board computer and scan gauge. I was pleasantly surprised.

[Montana Brad]

One thing I notice is the difference in age of the vehicles.Maybe the newer ones get better gas mileage?

[mizterwizard]

Originally Posted by Uplander

The Honda Ridgeline is not a truck in the purest since of “Truck” as it does not have a frame....it is a unibody type vehicle....real trucks are built on frames and therefore are stronger with higher load ratings and can tow more weight safely.

Actually Honda agrees. I was a Honda dealership mechanic when the Ridgeline was being designed. I was sent to training in Portland, Or. While I was there they talked about the rumored Honda Pickup. The instructor, who claimed to know what he was talking about, said that the main holdup at the time was that Honda figured a real truck had to have a frame and Honda only built unibody vehicles. To build a frame vehicle would take a whole new assembly plant which would be a billion dollar investment in the plant alone. That did not count the cost of developing the vehicle that was to be built there.

At the same time as the Ridgeline was being designed, Mercedes had a lot of extra money on hand and wanted to buy somebody. The called Honda to inquire and Honda told them not to waste their money on a plane ticket because they weren't interested. So Mercedes bought Chrysler instead. There wasn't anything they could do to force Honda to sell itself because they have no debt and the majority of the stock is owned by the family members of Soichiro Honda, senior management and factory workers. Honda didn't want to incur debt to finance the Ridgeline. So they built a unibody pickup, which isn't a real truck.

If you think about it though the biggest off road dump tucks have no frame either, at least not in the conventional sense.

This brings me to the weight distributing hitch situation.

The whole point of a WDH is to move the apparent weight of the trailer forward of the rear axle and closer to the center of gravity of the tow vehicle.

Honda doesn't forbid a WDH but cautions against it because unibody vehicles don't necessarily have the proper structure to handle the forces. A WDH puts considerable torque on the rear structure of the vehicle. It pushes up on the rear where it is designed to be pulled down and pulls down pretty hard somewhere further forward that isn't necessarily intended to take that much force.

The Ridgeline and other Honda models are designed to take a little weight on the rear but not the torque of a WDH. To use an WDH and not tear the rear off the vehicle it has to move much of the force well forward on the vehicle so that the torque is handled over more of the structure. If the WDH puts it's forces into the suspension mounting points or near them then the body can handle it but if they just attach near the rear with no reinforcement then bad things can happen.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by mizterwizard

If the WDH puts it's forces into the suspension mounting points or near them then the body can handle it but if they just attach near the rear with no reinforcement then bad things can happen.

Which is another way of saying that the WDH receiver has to be installed correctly and Honda didn't have faith that it would be installed correctly.

[mizterwizard]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Which is another way of saying that the WDH receiver has to be installed correctly and Honda didn't have faith that it would be installed correctly.

Well, ya, but why use just a few words when many will do?

There are all kinds of people out there who will sell you anything they can. Some will sell a hitch that isn't appropriate for your vehicle. You need one that is big enough to reach where there is strength.

Again, more words than necessary but I just thought someone might like to know what the difference between what is appropriate and what isn't when it comes to installing a WDH on a unibody vehicle.

[Glenn Baglo]

And, I appreciate that. 👍
Too many times I read statements on the web that are like that "telephone" game, where the story changes as it's passed from person to person. Some people seem to like to add drama that wasn't in the source statement.
And, I suspect, in that "telephone" game that some participants change the story intentionally.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Which is another way of saying that the WDH receiver has to be installed correctly and Honda didn't have faith that it would be installed correctly.

What Honda actually says in my 2011 Pilot owner's manual is this: "Use of a weight distributing hitch is not recommended because improper adjustment can adversely affect handling, steering, and braking." That seems to point to a concern over improper tensioning. There is no mention of the receiver installation or frame.

In the second generation (2009-2015) the receiver is a factory integrated design included as standard equipment on every Pilot. After I was rear-ended, I got a close-up look at the way it is attached to the rear subframe- bolted to the end rather than from underneath, and it seemed to a non-engineer's eye unsuitable for lifting. Nothing indicates it is rated for WDH.

Starting with the 2016 redesign, Honda returned to a bolt-on accessory receiver on the Pilot. That might open up the possibility of an aftermarket unit rated for WDH. I haven't checked to see what the new owner's manuals say about WDH.