Anyone towing with a 2013 Ford Escape? - Page 9 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-16-2013, 11:06 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
While it may be true that 1500 pounds is the tow limit of most cars, very few vehicles which are used as tugs have a limit which is that low. I agree that most of our trailers are over 1500 pounds gross operating weight.
That's "rating"
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:45 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by andix View Post
I had a 2008 Escape 3-spd AWD with a 3.0-liter engine and touted 200HP@4000RPM.
It would be surprising to find any but the most basic vehicle built in this century with a three-speed transmission; the 2008 Escape had a four-speed CD4E automatic (or a five-speed manual). The shifter only shows "1", "2", and "D", but if the "O/D" button on the side is out then "D" becomes "4" instead of "3".

You may choose not to use the top gear, especially for towing, leaving three gears in use. 200 hp is more than enough for this size of rig... if you let the engine run fast enough to produce that power. The big jump in engine speed from third gear to second will be annoying, as it is in my similarly geared motorhome.

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Originally Posted by andix View Post
That thing was rated for 3500 lbs and barely pulled the Bigfoot (2700 lbs read on scale, empty) from BC to AB. We spent 19 hours on a trip that should've lasted 12, just because I did not want to shoot the transmission in the middle of nowhere.
In these forums I have heard of quite a few people who are alarmed by the engine running significantly faster than it does in a gentle cruise, yet it must run much faster to produce anything close to its maximum power. As a result, they crawl along at low engine speed in second gear. 12 hours regular driving time sounds like something like the South Okanagan to Edmonton; 19 hours for that trip would probably include hours of 50 km/h grade climbs.

I don't know of any reason to be concerned about the transmission. Was it hunting between second and third gears when trying to drive any faster?

In this case, the Escape may also have been overloaded (beyond the 7080 lb GCWR), depending on how much weight was added to the empty trailer and to the Escape (passengers, cargo).

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Originally Posted by andix View Post
However from experience and professional advice (that I got, didn't believe and ended up verifying on my own) I won't tow anything that weighs more than 1/2 of the tug rating. Just to be on the safe side...
It would be an enormous waste if everyone followed this suggestion, with much larger vehicles than necessary being driven year-round to not take advantage of the vehicle's capability on the occasional vacation. Our 3500-lb-rated Sienna has not much more power than a 2008 V6 Escape, weighs more, and hauls 3000 lb or more of trailer through those same mountains without trouble; I think that it would be ridiculous to drive huge SUV year-round to fix a non-existent problem.



In any case, the 2013 Escape is a different vehicle from a 2008 Escape: different engines, different transmissions, different body... almost unrelated.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:50 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
While it may be true that 1500 pounds is the tow limit of most cars, very few vehicles which are used as tugs have a limit which is that low.
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
That's "rating"
Now there's a blast from the past... a response to a three-month-old post! Just catching up to us, Floyd?

Thanks for the attempt at help, but I don't need a ghost writer. The rating is the limit expressed by the manufacturer. You can choose to exceed that value, just as you can choose to drive faster than the speed limit.
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:59 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Now there's a blast from the past... a response to a three-month-old post! Just catching up to us, Floyd?

Thanks for the attempt at help, but I don't need a ghost writer. The rating is the limit expressed by the manufacturer. You can choose to exceed that value, just as you can choose to drive faster than the speed limit.
Ratings are set by corporate lawyers.
Capacities are determined by engineers.
Limits are set by statute.
My apologies, if I "spooked" you!
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:29 PM   #117
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At the FORD website, there is a document regarding Ford Escape towing. I have attempted to attach it here.

The document brings up "Frontal Area Consideration". Specifically, the 2.0 Ecoboost with towing package has a "limitation/consideration" of 30 square feet total for "moving vehicle and trailer".

30 square feet doesn't seem like that much, especially if one has to add in the Escape's frontal area. Wouldn't that "limit" one to pulling a small boat, or pop-up camper?

I'm all for choosing a economic, relatively high mpg vehicle, and appreciate that many choose Ford Escapes for their tow vehicles, and tow successfully, and have done so for years. But reading this "Frontal Area Consideration" certainly puts a different light on the Escape's stated capabilities. Maybe there is more to the towing equation than simply a weight rating.

I personally backed away from the Escape, maybe prematurely, as a tow vehicle after reading this guide. I was looking to upgrade from my wife's Forester's 2400 lb. rating in order to tow a 15 or 16 or even a 17 foot FGRV, but the "Frontal Area Consideration" brought up by Ford made me wonder if I was going to be unhappy with the results. I certainly didn't want to be burning up a new tow vehicle, which is sort of what they are suggesting.
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:31 PM   #118
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DANG! I tried to attach a file, used the advanced tab and "chose file" and...no attachment.
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:55 PM   #119
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Did it have the correct file type? Not every filetype will attach here.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:01 PM   #120
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It was a .pdf.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:16 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by LeonardS View Post
At the FORD website, there is a document regarding Ford Escape towing. I have attempted to attach it here.

The document brings up "Frontal Area Consideration". Specifically, the 2.0 Ecoboost with towing package has a "limitation/consideration" of 30 square feet total for "moving vehicle and trailer".

30 square feet doesn't seem like that much, especially if one has to add in the Escape's frontal area. Wouldn't that "limit" one to pulling a small boat, or pop-up camper?

I'm all for choosing a economic, relatively high mpg vehicle, and appreciate that many choose Ford Escapes for their tow vehicles, and tow successfully, and have done so for years. But reading this "Frontal Area Consideration" certainly puts a different light on the Escape's stated capabilities. Maybe there is more to the towing equation than simply a weight rating.

I personally backed away from the Escape, maybe prematurely, as a tow vehicle after reading this guide. I was looking to upgrade from my wife's Forester's 2400 lb. rating in order to tow a 15 or 16 or even a 17 foot FGRV, but the "Frontal Area Consideration" brought up by Ford made me wonder if I was going to be unhappy with the results. I certainly didn't want to be burning up a new tow vehicle, which is sort of what they are suggesting.
So what is the Frontal Area Consideration for the Subaru? I couldn't find a word about it in their literature.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:40 PM   #122
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Floyd, I don't know either, I haven't found it in any Subaru documentation. I mentioned "Frontal Area Consideration" only because Ford mentions it for the Escape, and it seems pretty limiting. They mention it for the Edge and Flex also. I haven't done the research to determine just exactly what model year they started mentioning a "Frontal Area Consideration". Seems to me like they are finding a way to hedge their weight rating, ie. advertise one thing then take it away with with a "Consideration" later.

For me, i was willing to go up to the very edge of the Forester's weight rating until I factored in it's 200 lb. tongue rating and squishy rear suspension, and the "no WDH" rating. (forgive me if I use the word "rating" wrong, gets dizzy considering semantics). Upgrades to the Forester's suspension are not common, as the US version has some sort of frame/sub-frame rubber isolation that has to be taken into account.

(figured out that the file is too big...)

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...&tt_escape.pdf

http://www.ford.com/towingguides/
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:47 PM   #123
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Frontal area is a common limitation. It is the auto manufacturer's attempt to account for the sustained rate of work the tow vehicle must do to overcome aerodynamic drag of the trailer, and is not unique to Ford. Honda has provided different trailer weight ratings for trailers in general and for boats - the idea is that a boat has less frontal area and air drag than a similar weight of box-shaped cargo trailer or travel trailer.

The Escape's area does not need to be added to that of the trailer. Imagine you are looking at the tow vehicle and trailer head-on, with light coming from behind them so all you see is a silhouette - the area of the outline you see is the frontal area.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:57 PM   #124
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Thanks Brian. That helps explain this "Frontal Area" issue. So a 6 foot wide Scamp that is 6 foot tall would likely overlap the Ford Escape's frontal area, negating having to add it in. And the 6 foot width of the Scamp might be counted a bit less since it has rounded corners. Close enough to the 30 square foot "consideration", which really only warns about performance loss.

Except for that not being exactly how air flows around any vehicle (one shadowing the other), which there is no way Ford or any other company is going to try to explain in an online brochure, at least it is a good starting point for consideration. Maybe I should have kept the Ford Escape in mind.

Too late for me, I just bought a new 2012 Frontier as the dealers were very anxious to get rid of them, and the factory was throwing lots of money in as an incentive. Now if I can just convince our dog to ride in the king cab part...
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:52 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by andix View Post
I had a 2008 Escape 3-spd AWD with a 3.0-liter engine and touted 200HP@4000RPM.
I should have caught this earlier...

Andy, if you were expecting 200 horsepower at 4000 rpm, you might operate the vehicle at a very low engine speed and be disappointed with performance. The actual ratings for the 2008 3.0L V6 are:
power: 200 hp @ 6000 rpm
torque: 193 ft-lbs. @ 4850 rpm
At 4000 rpm, this engine isn't even up to its peak torque, let alone peak power. At 4000 rpm, it might make 120 horsepower at full throttle.


The entirely different top engine in a 2013 Escape (2.0L L4 turbo) is rated:
power: 240 hp @ 5500 rpm (premium fuel) or 231 hp @ 5500 rpm (regular fuel)
torque: 270 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm
This engine would not need to run as fast as the old 3.0 V6 to produce the required power. At 4000 rpm this engine would be able to produce about 200 horsepower; 120 hp would take only 2700 rpm or so.

The new model has much more power, more readily available. Despite likely performing much better in terms of acceleration and grade climbing, the 2013 has no higher maximum trailer weight rating than the 2008. This demonstrates that an arbitrary rule such as limiting trailer weight to half of the rated maximum for performance doesn't make sense; one vehicle might be safe and performing very well at its rated trailer weight, while another might be still safe but performing barely adequately at its rated trailer weight.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:20 AM   #126
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Here are pics of my 2013 Escape 2.0 4WD tow package, Fiberglass RV - ONEFORD's Album: 2013 ford Escape Travel Lite I17
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