Anyone towing with a 2013 Ford Escape?

[Mike Magee]

I agree that as a broad societal proposition electric plug-in vehicles are not currently as green or as economical a solution as many claim. Yet on an individual case-by-case basis they might make sense for some, and I will not criticize anyone who finds them personally advantageous.

[841K9]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

A hybrid is more efficient because it recaptures some of the energy normally wasted in braking. For continuous operation with little braking, a hybrid doesn't make much sense. In applications with a lot of braking like a garbage truck or UPS truck, a hybrid can make a lot of sense. I've seen some simple hydraulic systems that merely capture the braking energy as hydraulic pressure, then release it to launch the vehicle. These systems can be a lot less expensive than an electrical hybrid with batteries and motor generators.

The problem with using a hybrid on a heavy duty truck is that much of the wasted fuel is from idling with accessories such as hydraulic pumps running.

I've dealt with the hydraulic systems. Interesting, but not really worth the extra maintenance/weight for the small fuel savings.

The biggest waste of fuel is the driver keeping the pedal on the floorboard. A hybrid saves NO fuel when running foot to the floor.

[841K9]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

And by "true cost", that must include that borne by taxpayers who subsidize that industry and in some cases are now being asked to build "fueling stations" and other supportive infrastructure for it.

"Free/low cost to the beneficiary" is not the same thing as "free/low cost".

Francesca

Don't forget the subsidies for natural gas powered vehicles.

If the technology is so wonderful, it will catch on without government interference.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by 841K9

The problem with using a hybrid on a heavy duty truck is that much of the wasted fuel is from idling with accessories such as hydraulic pumps running.

I've dealt with the hydraulic systems. Interesting, but not really worth the extra maintenance/weight for the small fuel savings.

The biggest waste of fuel is the driver keeping the pedal on the floorboard. A hybrid saves NO fuel when running foot to the floor.

UPS seems pretty happy with their test fleet. They just added 40 more trucks in 2012.

UPS First In Industry to Purchase Hydraulic Hybrid Vehicles - UPS Pressroom

In June 2006, UPS joined with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Eaton Corporation, the U.S. Army and Navistar International Corp. to form a successful public-private partnership to unveil the world’s first HHV diesel urban delivery vehicle prototype. The partners conducted an 18-month evaluation of the vehicle’s performance and emissions on a UPS delivery route in the Detroit, Michigan area. Results showed that the EPA’s patented hydraulic hybrid diesel technology achieved a 45- to 50-percent improvement in fuel economy and a 30 percent reduction in CO2 emissions compared with traditional diesel-powered vehicles.

[Brian B-P]

Okay, I give up... how are hybrids in general relevant to the 2013 Ford Escape, which is not even available in a hybrid?

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Okay, I give up... how are hybrids in general relevant to the 2013 Ford Escape, which is not even available in a hybrid?

No one had an answer for the OP, so it seemed like a shame to waste a good thread.

[honda03842]

Please no one take offfense here, I'm just thinking with you about hybrids.

Jon, of course your Scan gauge is not lying to you on down hills, any more than it is on up hills. I like the mpg indicator.

It was interesting on the main drag thru Myrtle Beach tonight, watching the MPG figure drop at each light. By the way one of the hybrid is that it shuts off the gas engine at traffic lights, another potential savings.


Francesca, In general I'm opposed to energy subsidies. My view is that both solar and wind energy should have to compete for my energy usage and not be well subsidized by the government.

My goal is to continue RVing in a climate where the government definitely wants higher ga and deisel energy prices.

It appears to me that a more efficient smaller engine, using the Atkinson cycle, might be able to power my vehicle at my towing speeds. The supporting electric motor may balance the low torque weakness of the gas engine. Note the Ford Atkinson is a 2L versus my Honda's 2.4 L engine.

The Honda's gas pedal has rarely seen the floor, only in emergencies.

I'm not worried about the extra battery weight assuming the chassis can handle them. Most of the people on the site like heavier tow vehicles, believing it's valuable in controlling the trailer.

Another advantage of the CMax is that the rear wheels seem to be rather close to the rear bumper, more closely approaching a fifth wheel (joking a little but certainly helpful).

I certainly don't know if a Hybrid can do the job but I'm interested in exploring it. I have found the lead engineer on the Ford CMax and hope to explore the topic with him.

I intend to pursue this when we get home.

[Francesca Knowles]

I think I'll go out tomorrow and buy a 2013 Ford Escape just so O.P. Rick will have someone to talk to.

Francesca

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I think I'll go out tomorrow and buy a 2013 Ford Escape just so O.P. Rick will have someone to talk to.

Francesca

That's the spirit!

[841K9]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

UPS seems pretty happy with their test fleet. They just added 40 more trucks in 2012.

40 out of the thousands they have in use...

Remember that UPS gets subsidized for every "green" scheme they attempt.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by 841K9

40 out of the thousands they have in use...

Remember that UPS gets subsidized for every "green" scheme they attempt.

There was a time when there was only one Prius.

[841K9]

Originally Posted by honda03842

The Honda's gas pedal has rarely seen the floor, only in emergencies.

The gas engine is turned on by vehicle load not by pedal position.

Its the same principal as the overdrive kicking off when passing. It isn't about how hard you press the pedal, its about the relative load being introduced to the drivetrain.

My diesels never downshift unless I put the foot to the floor, but my 3/4 ton gas powered van kicks out when theres a headwind.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by 841K9

The gas engine is turned on by vehicle load not by pedal position.

Norm's Honda is not a hybrid - the gas engine is always running. He's just saying that his Honda has more than sufficient power available for towing.

[honda03842]

A forum member sent me the following article about towing with a Ford Escape Hybrid. Reading it indicates that the Escape has the potential to tow my Scamp 16.

This article is worth reading and suggests that Hybrids may be a path to improved towing efficiencies.

The Hybrid-Vehicle Towing Experience

Safe Travels.

[Rick Mooyman]

Dont run out and buy a new Escape to make me happy. Buy it because it will do the job for you. I am buying it because of the 3500# tow rating and because I love the look and feel of it. All the other SUV's I have looked at have 1000 to 2000# tow ratings.

[cpaharley2008]

That article' author amazed me with their cavalier attitude that towing 1500 lbs over her manufacturer's rating is acceptable, even pointing out that purposely avoiding using the brakes is beneficial to her driving experience and efficiency. Trying to eek out every advantage of energy conservation is commendable, but that type of driving and towing a trailer seem incongruous. Pulling a trailer is not energy conserving, you are towing another vehicle that is heavy and has it's own brakes which which must activated with your vehicle's brakes. Totally different style in driving habits and they indicate that the style is the same, towing or not. Your stopping distance is considerably greater and the wear and tear has to be more than non towing driving, but they indicates little change as they monitors their towing by For towing, I just keep my eye on the tachometer and MPG indicator to be sure I am not over-taxing the engine
this indicates they have little understanding of the effects towing has on her vehicle.

I do not know about them but I watch my engine temperature, my transmission temperature, the outside temperature, and my gas gauge when towing, my "MPG" is the last thing I'm interested in because I'm towing.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

That article' author amazed me with her cavalier attitude

Hey, Jim!

I agree with your assessment of the 2008 posting linked to by Norm, but wish to register the following complaint/question from The Sisterhood:

What lead you to the presumption that the "Keith Donald" who wrote that glowing tribute is a woman?

Francesca

[841K9]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Norm's Honda is not a hybrid - the gas engine is always running. He's just saying that his Honda has more than sufficient power available for towing.

I was referring to his driving in relation to a hybrid vehicle.

I should have been more clear.

[841K9]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

There was a time when there was only one Prius.

The Prius is massively subsidized in both the US and Japan.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Hey, Jim!

I agree with your assessment of the 2008 posting linked to by Norm, but wish to register the following complaint/question from The Sisterhood:

What lead you to the presumption that the "Keith Donald" who wrote that glowing tribute is a woman?

Francesca

I just looked at the picture and read the article, sorry about that, no offense meant to the sisterhood. I went back and edited my post.