auto vs manual transmission

[honda03842]

Glen,

For reference, I'm writing about the CRV, the Odyssey is a totally different situation. With the Odyssey I never shift into neutral while moving.

Most of the time I dis not use engine braking at stop lights because frequently I saw they're going red. Heck I see people power up to stopped traffic and then apply their brakes. I rolled in neutral in that situation.

Down hill I stayed in neutral as much as possible and never exceeded the speed limit or my tire's top rated speed, 65 mph. If I saw speed building beyond appropriate limits I put the car in gear. I virtually rolled home from Crater Lake averaging over 30 mpg towing the Scamp.

Of course what I do is always dependent on road conditions, the road, weather and traffic level. A very high percentage of our travels are on low traffic density roads.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by tractors1

Modern automatic transmissions have so many gears the efficiency is usually better than a manual for the average driver, plus they can be manually controlled gear-to-gear without a clutch involved. I was a manual devotee until I moved out west where there are a LOT of hills/mountains. Love having cruise control for the flats too!
Charlie Y

Charlie,

Our new vehicle has a 6 speed, many vehicles have even more. To me it's the magic of the transmission and the variable cylinder management. Here in FL I'm almost always in ECO mode and frequently that means the Odyssey becomes a 3 cylinder vehicle. True efficiency.

[Joe Z]

Driving a stick is just so much more fun.....
Tim the Tool Guy wouldn't have it any other way...Ahr, Ahr, Ahr

[floyd]

Originally Posted by tractors1

Modern automatic transmissions have so many gears the efficiency is usually better than a manual for the average driver, plus they can be manually controlled gear-to-gear without a clutch involved. I was a manual devotee until I moved out west where there are a LOT of hills/mountains. Love having cruise control for the flats too!

Charlie Y

Tomahto/TomAto... band/clutch
Ford had select shift on their automatics forty eight years ago.
I have had cruise control on every vehicle I have owned since the late 1970s.... All manual transmissions.
Why only on the flats?

[BatDude]

We wound up with a 16' Scamp due to weight issues with the CVT in a 2006 Ford Freestyle. A regular auto-trans or manual would have not had the 2K lb tow limit.

After always having a manual I am still not used to the "Ahem" fuel savings... of the @$%*%^ thing accelerating down hill as it freewheels rather than using engine compression to maintain speed.

I was able to drive an International Scout with a broken clutch cable into the jungle for our research and more importantly back out again 3 months later by synchronizing RPM and "crash boxing" it. Guess my racing experience in my younger days in Formula Fords paid off [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Bruce\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.gif[/IMG]


Actually the auto in the current Ford is great as my wife is comfortable driving it, although she was excellent in the jungles with our manual gear boxed 4-wheel drive like the last Mitsubishi Montero we kept alive for 16 years.

Our thinking with our new Scamp is that we will use the Ford Freestyle until it drops and if necessary and if we still like Scamping we can always get a new tow rig.

Interesting discussion for sure.

[Joe Z]

Originally Posted by BatDude

I was able to drive an International Scout with a broken clutch cable into the jungle for our research and more importantly back out again 3 months later by synchronizing RPM and "crash boxing" it. Guess my racing experience in my younger days in Formula Fords paid off [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Bruce\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

Way to go Batdude...... You know what your doing. I had the same thing happen on a semi... the clutch pedal rod broke and i had to drive it from edison nj to west point ny and back.... roll up to the toll booths in neutral then shut it off, put it in 1st gear and crank the starter and off you go, or just grab the shifter with two hands and give it a good jerk into the "Low Hole", which i really don't like to abuse my equipment like that and as you know synchronizing the rpm's for changing gears up or down. I still do it often today in a little suzuki samurai i have.
Automatic are still nice for comfort and ease of use with todays auto really advanced

[Paul O.]

My 2013 Tacoma downshifts when I tap the brakes and slows down gently. On a steep long downhill I downshift to get more engine braking. (Like that 18% at Manic5, remember Norm?) When I coast to a stop light, the engine RPM is down to 800 - 900 immediately. The new transmission controls seem to have some good stuff programmed in them.

I just spent three weeks driving stick in the old country. Have no problem doing it, but find the automatics with torque convertors much more comfortable, especially towing and on long trips. I would say the automatic keeps the engine running more efficiently than all but a few exceptionally skilled drivers.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Glen,

For reference, I'm writing about the CRV, the Odyssey is a totally different situation. With the Odyssey I never shift into neutral while moving.

Most of the time I dis not use engine braking at stop lights because frequently I saw they're going red. Heck I see people power up to stopped traffic and then apply their brakes. I rolled in neutral in that situation.

Down hill I stayed in neutral as much as possible and never exceeded the speed limit or my tire's top rated speed, 65 mph. If I saw speed building beyond appropriate limits I put the car in gear. I virtually rolled home from Crater Lake averaging over 30 mpg towing the Scamp.

Of course what I do is always dependent on road conditions, the road, weather and traffic level. A very high percentage of our travels are on low traffic density roads.

Sorry to hear that Norm as you are missing the reason "they" don't want people doing that. If your engine should die/stall you loose your power steering and brakes and possibly control. Certainly not worth trying for a bit more MPGs in any road conditions. I think we have all had an engine die while idling at one time or another. I've only had one running at speed quit and fortunatly I was on the flat and the car was manual steering and brakes. No harm, just a tow. With all the electronic gizzmos on cars today I wouldn't be suprised if a blown dome light kills the whole system .
Of all the safety issues the folks here talk of, IMHO this rates in the top three.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

My 2013 Tacoma downshifts when I tap the brakes and slows down gently. On a steep long downhill I downshift to get more engine braking. (Like that 18% at Manic5, remember Norm?) When I coast to a stop light, the engine RPM is down to 800 - 900 immediately. The new transmission controls seem to have some good stuff programmed in them.

I just spent three weeks driving stick in the old country. Have no problem doing it, but find the automatics with torque convertors much more comfortable, especially towing and on long trips. I would say the automatic keeps the engine running more efficiently than all but a few exceptionally skilled drivers.

I've done the Manic V 18% switch back 3 times. Everytime my brain tells me somethings not right. There's another 18% on Antelope Island in the Great Salt Lake.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by floyd

That's right (at least for 87% of the driving public)

Everybody that drives a manual transmission is way above the average driver, if you don't believe me just ask them, they'd be more than happy to tell you good a driver they are.

[honda03842]

I guess more people should buy Hondas. I have had about 8 or so Hondas, probably about 2,000,000 miles and have never had one stall at idle while rolling in neutral. If it did stall I'd pop it into an appropriate gear and let the clutch out to re-start.

With humor, you're safe from me now, I don't shift into neutral with an automatic. Now I just need to worry about the car quitting while I'm driving.

I lost power steering once on a Ford station wagon with an automatic. A hose popped off causing the power steering to fail on a clover leaf. I managed but not easily.

That Ford was the worse car I ever owned, it needed an automatic transmission cube it failed so often. Exhaust system just fell off and both rear bearings failed, all on a family car with relatively few miles. It's the reason I have never bought anther Ford.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I guess more people should buy Hondas. I have had about 8 or so Hondas, probably about 2,000,000 miles and have never had one stall at idle while rolling in neutral. If it did stall I'd pop it into an appropriate gear and let the clutch out to re-start.

With humor, you're safe from me now, I don't shift into neutral with an automatic. Now I just need to worry about the car quitting while I'm driving.

I lost power steering once on a Ford station wagon with an automatic. A hose popped off causing the power steering to fail on a clover leaf. I managed but not easily.

That Ford was the worse car I ever owned, it needed an automatic transmission cube it failed so often. Exhaust system just fell off and both rear bearings failed, all on a family car with relatively few miles. It's the reason I have never bought anther Ford.

My 14 year old Ranger is just one of more than a dozen new Fords which have given me unparalleled service going back 40+ years.
My son bought a 1997 Sable last year which ran a mail delivery route for 15 years and 190000 miles, all original drive train and it now faithfully commutes 60 miles per day.
My daughter's 13 YO Explorer has yet to balk at daily service.
After 45+ years of turning wrenches on everything with wheels I still rely on my Fords to go rescue the rest. Its the reason I never buy anything else for daily use.
Go figure...

What is a transmission cube??

[sarahspins]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Everybody that drives a manual transmission is way above the average driver, if you don't believe me just ask them, they'd be more than happy to tell you good a driver they are.

Agreed - and that's not to say that people who drive automatics are always worse drivers, but I do think it's true that nearly everyone who drives a manual just flat out pays more attention to what they are doing in their car than someone who just has to aim their car and hit the gas does.

For the record I am younger, only in my early 30's, and I will drive a manual until they are no longer on the market - which may not be particularly long at this point. When I was car shopping about 6 months ago, only half of of the 6 cars on my "shortlist" to look into were even available with a manual, and of those, no dealer actually had a manual in their possession to test drive (at least, not in the models I was looking at). In the end I bought my car without test driving it (I did test drive the automatic version), before it had even been unloaded from the transport truck, and my dealer told me he sold most of his manual tranny's that way - most of them never even saw any time on the lot.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by sarahspins

Agreed - and that's not to say that people who drive automatics are always worse drivers, but I do think it's true that nearly everyone who drives a manual just flat out pays more attention to what they are doing in their car than someone who just has to aim their car and hit the gas does.

For the record I am younger, only in my early 30's, and I will drive a manual until they are no longer on the market - which may not be particularly long at this point. When I was car shopping about 6 months ago, only half of of the 6 cars on my "shortlist" to look into were even available with a manual, and of those, no dealer actually had a manual in their possession to test drive (at least, not in the models I was looking at). In the end I bought my car without test driving it (I did test drive the automatic version), before it had even been unloaded from the transport truck, and my dealer told me he sold most of his manual tranny's that way - most of them never even saw any time on the lot.

Your attitude is the same as my father's was when he was 40, the same as mine was when I was 40 and the same as my 40 year old daughter today. We have a tendency to grow older and wiser.

[Glenn Baglo]

On the other hand, I'm willing to accept that millions upon millions of consumers and the vehicle manufacturers might be smarter than me, which is why the manual transmission will likely not be offered in the near future.
My '87 Subaru wagon is the last standard that I drove. Don't miss it in the least.

[Glenn Baglo]

Enlightenment.
Buddy of mine was a fervent VW bus owner. He'd had three of them and he and his mechanic were best of chums.
He finally broke down ( or the Dub did ) and bought a Dodge Caravan ( no kidding ).
He couldn't believe that the heater actually worked, or that he could press a button to change radio stations, or that the seats were comfortable ( everything is relative ).
Now he has a Honda Element and it's the greatest car ( or whatever it is ).

[ruscal]

Manual transmissions give a more "connected" feel, and offer a lot of control. Shifting gears can be fun when not in stop and go traffic. My daily driver is a Honda fit with 5 speed automatic transmission. I have really enjoyed the car for the last 4 years. The trans downshifts when the brakes are applied helping to slow the car. The shifts are crisp, and can be operated by the steering mounted paddles. Last month I test drove a 6 speed manual Honda Fit thinking it may add more fun. During the test drive I was having real difficulty shifting smoothly. The clutch was so light that the weight of my leg dropped the clutch to the floor, and it had no feedback to help time the shifts. Also my size 14 feet were just too big for the layout. No fun....
Anyway, my Jeep Wrangler that we use to tug the Scamp has a manual trans and works superbly with or without the trailer. Never any worry of hot auto trans on long low geared pulls. The gearing in the Jeep is low enough to take off without slipping the clutch unless on a steep hill. Once in San Francisco I had to put it into 4wd low range to take off on a very steep street. The low range also comes in handy when backing into hilly campsites. Driving from Portland oregon down the coast through the winding forests in 2wd high range I rarely had to use my brakes unless I wanted to come to a stop. The compression braking could completely control the Jeep and trailer speed. If your starter fails you can bump start manual vehicles too.
All that said I think It comes down to driver choice, as both trannys will do the job. Just get what is comfortable to you. Just avoid manual transmission vehicles with high axle gear ratios, as it makes for clutch slipping during take off. 3.73:1 or lower should be good. (higher numerical ratios are lower gear ratios)
Russ

[Jose acosta]

Very interesting article many thanks to all

[Victor Benz]

My tug is a 1999 4Runner V6, manual transmission. It is NOT my daily driver anymore, since I commute 150km each day for work. My daily driver is an econobox automatic.

I bought it with the intention of both being my sports vehicle and a trailer tug. With almost 400,000km on it, I could not be happier. Other than regular maintenance, I have replaced the clutch twice; mainly in teaching my daughters how to drive stick and then allowing them to drive the vehicle solo. I find that I feel the road much better, and that the 4-wheel option definitely has its place in towing, even the low 4 option. I intend to keep it running for as long as possible, and hope that I don't have to replace it.

[Rich Morrison]

Wow! I appreciate the differing perspectives. Glad to know I can go with either manual or automatic. Rich Morrison