auto vs manual transmission

[Timber Wolf]

Hmmm, three pages and I am just getting around to posting. I will drive and tow with whatever I have, but prefer an auto. I have satisfied myself based on my own experience and observations that automatics and the vehicles they are in give less overall trouble than their manual equipped counterparts. I know that you may have driven a bazillion+ trouble free miles with your stick, and it does not sway me because of MY experience. And driving an automatic is one of the luxuries I can afford.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Everybody that drives a manual transmission is way above the average driver, if you don't believe me just ask them, they'd be more than happy to tell you good a driver they are.

++The argument of better control with a manual is bunk.

My response was not about driver skill, It was in response to your comment about better transmission control. Of course that 87% who can't operate a manual transmission are not going to experience better overall control with a manual. In fact they will experience diminished control over all, and will sing the praises of automatics.
Automatics will actually give them better control, no "bunk"!

That 13% who can operate a manual are exposed to the objective advantages of each and can make a subjective judgement as to which is best for their needs.
That choice however, like all others, is quickly disappearing.

Good driving is another subject altogether.

[clyle]

I tow a Trillium with both a Saturn Vue (auto) and a Honda Passport (stick). I prefer the stick for the above mentioned reasons, but I'll add one more. In this modern, hi-tech age you're a lot less likely to have your car/tow vehicle stolen as 1) many (most?) thieves can't drive a stick and 2) it'd be harder to pass on. Just one of those things that make me feel slightly more comfortable far from home.

[Andrew Gibbens]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Everybody that drives a manual transmission is way above the average driver, if you don't believe me just ask them, they'd be more than happy to tell you good a driver they are.

But if you ask all drivers, you'll find that most of them think they are better than the average....

[Uplander]

Fact is that automatic transmissions (with trans cooler) a far better for towing in today's modern SUV/Trucks.

I noted that an earlier post indicated a major failure of a Dodge automatic transmission...not a big suprise as consumers reports indicated a very high failure rate in Dodge Automatics. Consumers Reports may not always be correct in their reports but I avoid any vehicle that they rate poorly...better safe than sorry.

[honda03842]

Automatics and standards are both capable of doing the job. The reality is that in NA they are hard to find, not the case in Europe.

Standards use to cost less, and I always thought more reliable and efficient, at least in the old days.

Floyd,

Transmission cube is a play on flash cubes in old time cameras. By the way we did own two very good Fords, an LTD wagon and a 65 Mustang.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Uplander

Fact is that automatic transmissions (with trans cooler) a far better for towing in today's modern SUV/Trucks.

.

True... Far better for many of them since the alternative is no transmission at all!

[RogerDat]

I have some preference for the connection I feel with the vehicle when driving with a stick, especially if the road is poor or the weather conditions are bad.

At highway speeds on long drives how would I know the difference except getting on and off the highway? In stop and go traffic I guess the automatic is easier but in general driving a stick becomes automatic after awhile. You don't think about shifting you just do it, no different than keeping ones balance on a bicycle or leaning on curves on a motorcycle.

I darn sure know I miss a clutch when I have needed to "rock" out of being stuck in mud or snow. The only stick I never really liked was the three on the tree P/U truck I drove for awhile. The angles or throw just never seemed comfortable in that truck. Now my old dodge van with the same sort of steering column shifter suited me fine.

Wife on the other hand has no use for a stick (can drive one so if someone steals your tow vehicle.... Hmmm?) Both our regular vehicles are automatics but that is mostly due to models purchased and a desire to have both of us comfortable driving each others vehicle.

Of course you have to remember I'm a dinosaur, I still prefer rear wheel drive. I don't care that it is less efficient, I have decades worth of reflexes built around how that system responds. AND I have never mastered doing a "Rockford" in front wheel drive, even though it's a piece of cake in rear wheel drive vehicle. I guess better is really personal eh?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Automatics and standards are both capable of doing the job. The reality is that in NA they are hard to find, not the case in Europe.

Standards use to cost less, and I always thought more reliable and efficient, at least in the old days.

Floyd,

Transmission cube is a play on flash cubes in old time cameras. By the way we did own two very good Fords, an LTD wagon and a 65 Mustang.

I guess if you can remember the "Flash Cube"... At least it lasted 4 times longer than a "Transmission Bulb" of the same era!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

I have some preference for the connection I feel with the vehicle when driving with a stick, especially if the road is poor or the weather conditions are bad.

At highway speeds on long drives how would I know the difference except getting on and off the highway? In stop and go traffic I guess the automatic is easier but in general driving a stick becomes automatic after awhile. You don't think about shifting you just do it, no different than keeping ones balance on a bicycle or leaning on curves on a motorcycle.

I darn sure know I miss a clutch when I have needed to "rock" out of being stuck in mud or snow. The only stick I never really liked was the three on the tree P/U truck I drove for awhile. The angles or throw just never seemed comfortable in that truck. Now my old dodge van with the same sort of steering column shifter suited me fine.

Wife on the other hand has no use for a stick (can drive one so if someone steals your tow vehicle.... Hmmm?) Both our regular vehicles are automatics but that is mostly due to models purchased and a desire to have both of us comfortable driving each others vehicle.

Of course you have to remember I'm a dinosaur, I still prefer rear wheel drive. I don't care that it is less efficient, I have decades worth of reflexes built around how that system responds. AND I have never mastered doing a "Rockford" in front wheel drive, even though it's a piece of cake in rear wheel drive vehicle. I guess better is really personal eh?

Doing a Rockford is maybe even easier with front wheel drive.
I wouldn't try it with the trailer on though!

[Joe Z]

Originally Posted by Uplander

Fact is that automatic transmissions (with trans cooler) a far better for towing in today's modern SUV/Trucks.

I noted that an earlier post indicated a major failure of a Dodge automatic transmission...not a big suprise as consumers reports indicated a very high failure rate in Dodge Automatics. Consumers Reports may not always be correct in their reports but I avoid any vehicle that they rate poorly...better safe than sorry.

That was me with the dodge Ram tranny failure.... At 97,000 miles and very little towing maybe 6,000 miles total and fluids changed i was shocked and even more shocked at the rebuild price. I would rather have a clutch go bad

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Joe Z

That was me with the dodge Ram tranny failure.... At 97,000 miles and very little towing maybe 6,000 miles total and fluids changed i was shocked and even more shocked at the rebuild price. I would rather have a clutch go bad

We had several dodge truck transmissions fail in fleet service. We found a transmission shop which modified the transmission during the rebuild process to allow the use of Dextron fluid. Not one of the modified transmissions suffered a failure for the balance of its fleet service.

I don't recall all the actual changes made but I think it had to do with drilling out ports in the valve body to allow better flow at a higher viscosity than the stock fluid.

[Joe Z]

I was told a somewhat similar story on the rebuild as i am friends with the shop owner and he recommended to let him do the rebuild with the upgrades vs off the shelf rebuild.
If and when i buy a new pickup (which i doubt right now $$) it will be a 2500/250 model with standard shift.... And "No" I don't think i'm a better driver LOL

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by floyd

We had several dodge truck transmissions fail in fleet service. We found a transmission shop which modified the transmission during the rebuild process to allow the use of Dextron fluid. Not one of the modified transmissions suffered a failure for the balance of its fleet service.

I don't recall all the actual changes made but I think it had to do with drilling out ports in the valve body to allow better flow at a higher viscosity than the stock fluid.

You would hope that moving forward that the problem is solved by what sounds like a simple solution.

[Raz]

What ended towing with a manual transmission for me was the "hill holder clutch". Raz

[Paul O.]

Ever did the two pedal left foot thing? Some cars were well laid out for this trick.

Edit: I mean "right foot".

[Uplander]

Sad fact is many auto/truck manufacturers continue to make and sell poor designs for years after problems surface. If research shows many failures logic indicates you should avoid the product(s). That is when historic records like those published by Consumer Reports are a great help prior to spending your hard earned money. Why buy a known problem.

Fact is many manufacturers figure that if the problem happens after the warranty period has passed it will cost them nothing...you get to pay.
If the problem failures occur in warranty they factor the replacement cost into the original cost price of the vehicle. All auto/truck makers have formulas for this "cost of warranty service" included in the selling price....bet you didn't know that! This is often much cheaper than re-engineering the parts or a re-design which is followed by changes in the assembly line and often recertification if the assembly is part of the drive train. In the end the consumer pays for the so called warranty repair in the original cost of the product. General Motors and Chrysler are very good at this "cost-pass-through" system....both makers are famous for transmissions that continued in production long after defects were known...many for 10 years or longer. This transmission failure problem got so bad years ago that they had to send most of the repair work out to transmission shops with national franchises because they were over loaded with warranty service.

One more point on automatic transmissions....the current design of automatics have better gas mileage than standards....they have become that good!
I see no benefit in a standard transmission in today's production vehicles as long as the maker is committed to quality.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by honda03842

You would hope that moving forward that the problem is solved by what sounds like a simple solution.

SOLVED.... ownership went from Mercedes to Fiat!

[Marv Watson]

With almost 5,000 miles of towing our '78 1300 Trillium with a 2013 Subaru Outback with continuously variable transmission-CVT- (4 cyl), I am slowly becoming a convert. I consider it to be superior for towing compared to the 2006 Subaru we first towed with (4 cyl, automatic). This transmission finds the right "rpm's" all the time. Hard to do with a standard or regular automatic - regardless of number of "speeds". Stay posted for updates as we continue to put this Outback CVT to the test towing our Trillium.

[Borden]

Our TV is automatic with a trans-axle cooler works well; then our trailer is an original super ultra lite boler.