Automatic vs. manual transmission

[Borden]

Have used auto and manual:
In the end like auto better, 2 of the three automatics had transmission or transaxle coolers and a hill setting.

[Roger C H]

Truckers stop at the top of long hills to check (and adjust) their air brakes. I don't know what it all entails, but I do know that air brakes are a science in themselves.

HowStuffWorks "How Air Brakes Work"

Since the advent of high mileage cars and their coorespondingly small engines, engine braking isn't what it once was. Of course if you have a pick up with a 6 liter V8, it still may be, but 2 liter fours just don't have it, even for the car itself.

This is probably why so many light cars, Subaru, etc require electric brakes on trailers, the cars themselves just don't have the Moxie.

BTW we drive only manual shift cars. I have found no problem from driving the car alone or with a tow. Of course one has to be conscious of not "riding the clutch" but this is true in any situation.

One thing I notice about automatics is I often see vehicles driving down the road with brake lights on. This probably means the driver keeps one foot over the brake pedal and one foot on the gas. The brake foot gets tired and rests ever so slightly on the pedal and good bye brake linings.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

A review of the towing specifications of vehicles you will find that an automatic has a heaver load towing capability.

Not technically correct, Manufacturers generally "rate" manual transmissions lower because of a well founded lack of trust for many driver's "capabilities"
For example my Ranger's manual transmission has an input rating of 450ftlbs of torque,which is more than the rating for it's contemporary automatic counterpart.

[Steve L.]

Personally, I'm good with Darwin's comment. Technically, the tow rating is exactly what the automaker says it is, not what someone thinks it should be. Generally, and I qualify my statement because I haven't checked every manufacturer's specs, autos are rated higher for towing than manuals.

In Ford's case, I agree with you that the manuals are mostly rated for higher torque than the autos although I can't find any Ranger transmission rated as high as 450 lb-ft in the recent decade. Since transmissions are mated to a variety of engines and rear ends, the transmission rating doesn't directly relate to towing ratings. So I'd be cautious thinking that the higher transmission rating indicates hidden towing capacity.

[Carol H]

I have up until my current vechile always gone with manual - live on the side of a mountain and so we do get more snow than those in the lower parts of Vancouver. Having a manual made it easy to rock the car out of any sticky situation I might find myself in :-) When Subaru decided to go auto only on the Outback model I have I was a little bit concerned but it has not been an issue at all. Never have had a problem getting out of a sticky situation as they do have what they call the sport option on the shifter that I can switch over to which acts much as the manual did. I can also use the sport option if I'm towing and hit a really big hill and feel the car needs a little help with deciding on what gear it needs to be in. As I also spend a lot of time driving in a big city I have to say that having the auto trans has been a big plus and not sure I would ever go back to a manual shift.

The only down side I have experenced with having gone to auto vs manual is that I did go through brake pads faster than on my previous manual transmission Outbacks. When I asked the repair shop about that they pointed out I do live on the side of a mountain and when in auto drive the brakes are having to be used a lot more as the transmission is attempting to go forward even when stopped. Having said that though I never had a situation where I felt the car was not stopping as well as it should even when towing. If you have the car serviced as the manual states they will tell you when the brakes are getting near the end of their life before you have any problems.

So the only down side so far to having the auto trans is a bit of an increase in the yearly running costs as a result of having to change the brake pads a bit more frequently.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Steve L.

Personally, I'm good with Darwin's comment. Technically, the tow rating is exactly what the automaker says it is, not what someone thinks it should be. Generally, and I qualify my statement because I haven't checked every manufacturer's specs, autos are rated higher for towing than manuals.

In Ford's case, I agree with you that the manuals are mostly rated for higher torque than the autos although I can't find any Ranger transmission rated as high as 450 lb-ft in the recent decade. Since transmissions are mated to a variety of engines and rear ends, the transmission rating doesn't directly relate to towing ratings. So I'd be cautious thinking that the higher transmission rating indicates hidden towing capacity.

When your knowledge of the subject is seriously limited it is always best to be cautious about what you think, especially when using those thoughts as a basis for advice.
Following the manufacturer's recommendations is prudent, and knowing their rationale merely adds to a better understanding of why.
While it is true that automaker's "ratings" are immutable, it is also a fact that aftermarket modifications change the vehicle's "capabilities".
The automaker's tow rating is in fact "what someone thinks it should be"
and the words capability and rating are not directly interchangeable.

IMHO,
Clarity and informed understanding are preferable to blind obediance when making any decision, whether it is carpentry,diet,mechanics, or even medicine.

[Steve L.]

One thing I've learned from all these years in the engineering side of OE manufacturing is that it's almost never as simple as one thinks it is. And I must respectfully disagree because it's certainly not just what someone thinks it should be. Safety, government regs, competitiveness, warranty, fuel economy, intended market, cost, and revenue all impact every decision to different levels.

For example, while it would probably behoove a manufacturer to claim the highest tow rating possible for competitive reasons, that desire is tempered by anticipated warranty costs based on past experience and the existing technology available.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Steve L.

One thing I've learned from all these years in the engineering side of OE manufacturing is that it's almost never as simple as one thinks it is. And I must respectfully disagree because it's certainly not just what someone thinks it should be. Safety, government regs, competitiveness, warranty, fuel economy, intended market, cost, and revenue all impact every decision to different levels.

For example, while it would probably behoove a manufacturer to claim the highest tow rating possible for competitive reasons, that desire is tempered by anticipated warranty costs based on past experience and the existing technology available.

After all these years of fleet maintenance,and building cars for both street and track, I understand just how complex those decisions can be.
All of your caveats merely inform that decision, and can often contribute to a product fraught with conformity and mediocrity.
At my house , and with everything I own, it eventually comes down to what "I think it should be" and that decision is almost never as simple as one might think.
Ultimately, in any organization, it eventually does in fact, come down to " just what someone thinks it should be".

[Borden]

I have had manual shifter stuck in my old ford van twice. Had to pull over pop hood to fix it. Always put it up to sloppy shifting or driver error.

Toyota rates cars without cooler or trailer brakes in flier.
Trailer brakes take the braking load off the tug and cooler prevents transaxle over heating due to air we push at speed.
Also some autos have a TV setting.

Still ours is setup to tow 'custom class III hitch with WD system' and more.

Owen Sound is in a valley along the Niagara Escarpment lots of steep hills the boler is so light it is not a problem.

In the end we have to be safe and meet all the legal requirements.

[Loren G. Hedahl]

In all my years of towing, the weakest link in my tow vehicle has always been the automatic transmission. Failures I've experienced have always occurred without warning in obscure, out-of-the-way places. These have seriously impacted my vacations on several occasions and have been very expensive to repair, especially with a long tow distance.

Soooo -- the best way I know to eliminate this inconvenience is to eliminate the automatic transmission.

I'll go with a manual every time, given a choice.

[Ray N]

I was recently shopping the full-size, half-ton trucks for my next tow vehicle. I don't think a manual is available in any of them anymore.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Ray N

I was recently shopping the full-size, half-ton trucks for my next tow vehicle. I don't think a manual is available in any of them anymore.

This is just one more reason why I am going today to look seriously at a 33 year old tow vehicle. It will be built to my specs and have real brakes and consistent driver operated controls, and yes... a 5-speed manual transmission.
I simply will no longer pay too much for a product I do not want,with features mandated by incompetents.

[Greg H]

You go Floyd!!!

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Loren G. Hedahl

In all my years of towing, the weakest link in my tow vehicle has always been the automatic transmission.

The weakest link in MY tow vehicle is the driver!...: ME

Francesca

[Raz]

I don't believe you can buy a new full size pickup with a manual transmission anymore. The Nissan Frontier and the Toyota Tacoma midsize still list them. We bought a new Frontier last year. The only manual they could find was in N.J., 350 miles away. They wanted several hundred dollars more to get the manual than the automatic on the lot, so we settled. It's the first automatic we have ever owned. We are already looking at buying a Subaru with a manual to replace it. I'm not sure if it is the trend to load them up to increase profits or the integration of the engine and the transmission via electronic control for fuel economy reasons but manuals are becoming a thing of the past. If I lived further south I'd go the route Floyd is suggesting but there are very few 10 year old daily rides here in VT. Road salt! Raz

[floyd]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

I don't believe you can buy a new full size pickup with a manual transmission anymore. The Nissan Frontier and the Toyota Tacoma midsize still list them. We bought a new Frontier last year. The only manual they could find was in N.J., 350 miles away. They wanted several hundred dollars more to get the manual than the automatic on the lot, so we settled. It's the first automatic we have ever owned. We are already looking at buying a Subaru with a manual to replace it. I'm not sure if it is the trend to load them up to increase profits or the integration of the engine and the transmission via electronic control for fuel economy reasons but manuals are becoming a thing of the past. If I lived further south I'd go the route Floyd is suggesting but there are very few 10 year old daily rides here in VT. Road salt! Raz

Heck... I live in northern Illinois, they salt the roads here just to stimulate new car sales!
You can always go where you find the good ones to buy.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by floyd

This is just one more reason why I am going today to look seriously at a 33 year old tow vehicle. It will be built to my specs and have real brakes and consistent driver operated controls, and yes... a 5-speed manual transmission.
.

1978 Trillium Factory Tow Vehicle!!!
Just what Doctor Floyd ordered...is that a Plymouth Duster???Trillium Factory Tow Vehicle0001.jpg Views: 10 Size: 390.3 KB ID: 35339" style="margin: 2px" />

Can't tell about the 5-speed Part................??


Francesca

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

1978 Trillium Factory Tow Vehicle!!!
Just what Doctor Floyd ordered...is that a Plymouth Duster???Attachment 35339

Can't tell about the 5-speed Part................??


Francesca

3 or 4 maybe ... any more would be a mod

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

We bought a new Frontier last year. The only manual they could find was in N.J., 350 miles away. They wanted several hundred dollars more to get the manual than the automatic on the lot, so we settled. It's the first automatic we have ever owned. We are already looking at buying a Subaru with a manual to replace it. Raz

You probably should have settled on a different dealer rather than a different transmission. The auto transmissions usually cost about $1000 more than the manual so that several hundred more for the manual is really several hundred plus $1000. The Tacoma with manual that I bought a few years ago came from out of state, 250 miles away, and they did not charge any extra over one on the lot, just had to wait a week. I have purchased several cars that came in from out of state and never had to pay for it. Your dealer just wanted a quick sale and to maximize profit, I bet they would have changed their mind if you were walking out the door.

We may replace our old Subaru with manual with a new one, but for the first time in my life I am considering an automatic. The Subaru auto is a CVT and gets more MPG than the manual 6 speed. It was very very smooth in the test drive.

[Bobbie Mayer]

Get your new Subaru and let me know how it handles hills, Andy. My problem with the Forester automatic (my mom has the 2002; I have a 2000 manual) is that it has much less oomph on hills. Nowhere near as peppy though it isn't all that bad as automatics go.