Axle-Less AxleLess Suspension - TIMBREN - Page 7 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 01-25-2014, 12:30 AM   #85
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To David B.

David
Not sure why, but trying to "reply" directly to your post is now giving me the message: "Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.
Please reload the window." each time.


Well, I don't have any problem with engineering details, but am still unsure what criteria of measurements I need to gather. Width (where to where), outward projection from frame, wheel well clearance, etc.. Figure that will actually be the hard part as I keep seeing different figures on the various builds & mods. The part I do like is that the Timbren AND the UG setup would allow different angles on either side if necessary.
Paul
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:55 AM   #86
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David
I found some data on Flexride that Andrew G had posted some time back.
"The angle (below) is the unloaded starting angle, the height is the distance down from the top of the axle bracket to the wheel centre (so negative means wheel centre above axle bracket) with the axle at full static load:
10 deg Up .. -0.5 inch
0 deg .. -0.1 inch
10 deg Down .. +0.8 inch
22 deg Down .. +1.8 inch
35 deg Down .. +2.8 inch
45 deg Down .. +3.7 inch
"
If that is so, then the Flexride would give a max of 3.7" additional clearance above ground or me, but the Timbren, which can be ordered with a preloaded 7.5" clearance BELOW the frame, would give almost 4" additional inches. On the roads we normally use, I would be tempted to kill for an additional 4" !! In fact, the are other times I might.... Never Mind!

It seems with the Flexride, tire height would still be of prime impact. Am I missing some data for this conclusion?

Paul
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:50 AM   #87
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At the time I had the axle installed, I was having the frame fractures repaired, so there was an additional 3" of new frame material welded to the original frame. This made my starting ride height higher than original axle set-up. Using the flexiride at an upward angle still left the ride height a couple of inches higher than the stock ride height, so when a downward angle is used, a much higher than stock ride (almost 7") height is achieved.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:39 AM   #88
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Paul,
These torsion type axles ideally perform when angled down a little and pass horizontal on the way to full compression where they are angled up a little. If you desire to raise the ride height of the trailer with one of those axles you should use spacers between the torsion housing and trailer frame. With the Flexiride you have additional fine adjustment to change the height. These axles will tend to ride a little harsher when angled down too far though. I installed a 3500 # Flexiride on my trailer using a 2"x 2" steel tube spacer which gave the trailer enough height to be towed by my lifted Jeep with a 4" dropped draw bar. It never drags on anything. Mine is set on the 22 degree down spline. I did a write up a year or two ago, so you can check my older posts.
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:59 AM   #89
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I did read it. Still not sure exactly what/where measurements I need to supply tho.

Paul
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:19 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Romad View Post
I did read it. Still not sure exactly what/where measurements I need to supply tho.

Paul
I had read Ruscal's thread, as well as others when I was going to have mine installed, but they wouldn't listen as they were the experts in trailers & axles. I was changing our Scamp over from a leading arm to a trailing arm set-up. I don't know why the new set-up measurements are difference from the stock axle, but they are. They took off the original axle and made the new leading arm set-up to match, but the tires rubbed on the inner fenders. I took it back and they had to make another axle, and I think they used the dimensions that I gave them that I got off from members on this forum, and no problems since. I'm sorry that I can't remember the measurements now, nor did I save the paper they were written on, as I figured I would always have the FGRV forum to look them up on.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:51 AM   #91
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I have the Flexi-Ride in my Boler installed in a trailing arm configuration. One specification to note is that the trailing arm on the Flexi-Ride is 4.5" long whereas the arm on the Dexter is 6" long. Take this into consideration when setting your angle as well as the axle location. If the Flexi-Ride is mounted in a leading are configuration in the factory location the shorter arms will result in the wheels being located 1.5" rearward from stock.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:32 PM   #92
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David & Ian
THAT is what I have a problem with. I don't need someone else's measurements! I just need to know WHAT TO MEASURE & WHERE! You would think this was a secret society or something. Everyone has helpful data, but almost never what you actually ask for. I am totally new at this. You want anything electronic designed, prototyped, or even the components invented, I can help! But trailers are NOT in my data bank yet. I have had several helpful hints like, "just measure the frame". Ah, inside, outside, length, width of the hitch??? I am used to using blueprints, diagrams, and drawings with references, but am lost with vague "somewhere close to", etc..
How hard is it to say WHAT dimensions am I measuring, and at WHAT point? If there really are so many that have done it, and can now give advice, why can't they give out those data? I am reminded of some of the old Amateur Radio operators who hated code going away. "I had to do it, so should they!" I LIKE giving out helpful data. Those drawings and the "rambling" reply weren't to "bother" the experts (whose definition by the way, is "an old drip under pressure") but to share an idea. I have seen so much great and inventive stuff on here (205 pages of cut-and-paste so far!) that I am amazed. But those same helpful and creative people treat any data but what they want to brag on (Rightfully so) it is frustrating. Like having a talkative, but very nice neighbor who drones on and on until you don't dare say "Hi" to them.

Paul
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:20 PM   #93
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Paul, I am not sure if your rant was directed at me or just that you are frustrated. I made a simple comment on an actually measurement that I experienced and thought should be considered. I cannot give you specific dimensions on your trailer because I don't know them. The frames of these trailers differ from make and year to year. I personally don't work from CAD drawings or blueprints, My designs are closer to those drawn on napkins, fabrication is in my mind and I keep working until the result is what I envision in my mind.
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:32 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Romad View Post
David & Ian
THAT is what I have a problem with. I don't need someone else's measurements! I just need to know WHAT TO MEASURE & WHERE! You would think this was a secret society or something. Everyone has helpful data, but almost never what you actually ask for. I am totally new at this. You want anything electronic designed, prototyped, or even the components invented, I can help! But trailers are NOT in my data bank yet. I have had several helpful hints like, "just measure the frame". Ah, inside, outside, length, width of the hitch??? I am used to using blueprints, diagrams, and drawings with references, but am lost with vague "somewhere close to", etc..
How hard is it to say WHAT dimensions am I measuring, and at WHAT point? If there really are so many that have done it, and can now give advice, why can't they give out those data? I am reminded of some of the old Amateur Radio operators who hated code going away. "I had to do it, so should they!" I LIKE giving out helpful data. Those drawings and the "rambling" reply weren't to "bother" the experts (whose definition by the way, is "an old drip under pressure") but to share an idea. I have seen so much great and inventive stuff on here (205 pages of cut-and-paste so far!) that I am amazed. But those same helpful and creative people treat any data but what they want to brag on (Rightfully so) it is frustrating. Like having a talkative, but very nice neighbor who drones on and on until you don't dare say "Hi" to them.

Paul
I think what you are asking for is for some one to tell you how to do a job you want to do, and in some some detail....

I am only guessing when I say that fewer than 5% of those on this site would even attempt any kind of frame/suspension repair/modifications, and, as none of them have done what you are so deteremined to do, so basically you are walking on new ground.

As mentioned earlier, this is a site where helpful opinions are offered. It really sounds like you need professional advice and there just isn't anyone here that has that to offer, at least not for free.....
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:22 AM   #95
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For any rubber torsion axle, the first page of this Dexter diagram showing the measurements used is useful:

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/Axle_Measurement.pdf

The three 'measurements' required to order a torsion axle (once you have specified the model, capacity, hub type, etc) are:

1) Hubface, the width over the faces of the hubs, which will be the same as your current axle if you want the wheels in the same place.

2) Width over mounting brackets - again, this will be the same as at present since they must attach to the same frame.

3) Start angle - this is the bit you are trying to change, to increase the ride height. You need to look at the manufacturer's information to select this*. You don't require start angle for a Flexiride axle, since they are adjustable.

The one other factor which will affect ride height is if you choose to add a spacer between the axle brackets and the frame. Several forum members have done that and it is a simple way of increasing ride height without going to an axle with an extreme start angle.

*For example, here is the Dexter torsion axle information. You would probably pick a #9 axle (1000-2200lbs capacity), so on page 3 you see the ride heights for different start angles.

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/Trail...nformation.pdf

One thing to keep in mind is that axles (other than Flexiride) are specified by their 'start angle' which is the angle they sit at when completely unloaded - but to work out the ride height you want, you need to look at the 'full load' information, which is where they will sit when fully loaded.

Beware of getting impressed by big numbers - a high-capacity axle will be virtually rigid if lightly loaded, so you want a capacity that is just a comfortable margin (maybe 30%) over the trailer's actual weight.

To look at other Dexter online information, go to http://www.dexteraxle.com/resource_library_
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:34 AM   #96
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Paul, I am not sure if your rant was directed at me or just that you are frustrated.
NOT AT ALL!
One of our "other" senior members was just showing me his "camaraderie" and telling me off about rambling on. Actually answering some comments inc his, and sharing data, which seems only well taken by some if you are a "Genuine Scamper" rather than some guy that just owns on! LOL
I don't want dimensions! I just want to know WHERE to measure WHAT POINTS>

Paul
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:40 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
I think what you are asking for is for some one to tell you how to do a job you want to do, and in some some detail....

I am only guessing when I say that fewer than 5% of those on this site would even attempt any kind of frame/suspension repair/modifications, and, as none of them have done what you are so deteremined to do, so basically you are walking on new ground.

As mentioned earlier, this is a site where helpful opinions are offered. It really sounds like you need professional advice and there just isn't anyone here that has that to offer, at least not for free.....
No problem Bob!
I don't ask for details, but you need new glasses or to read what someone says, not what you think they say.

And, Sir, you are the one who said I shouldn't post too much because "no one" would read them. Fortunately some do!

[QUOTE=Bob Miller;"But rest assured, when someone puts up long rambling posts they shouldn't be concerned about negative feedback, as no one reads them anyway. "[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:41 AM   #98
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Thanks Bob,
THAT is what I was looking for!! Mil gracious!
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