Axle Part Number

[WayneJ]

I need to replace the axle on my 1985 Scamp 16. A previous post, suggeted Red Neck Trailers as a source for a new axle. I went to their web site, and I am having difficulty determining which axle would be correct for my trailer. Does anyone have a part number?

[Byron Kinnaman]

I need to replace the axle on my 1985 Scamp 16. A previous post, suggeted Red Neck Trailers as a source for a new axle. I went to their web site, and I am having difficulty determining which axle would be correct for my trailer. Does anyone have a part number?

I bet Scamp Trailer would be able to answer that. 1-800-346-4962

[Donna D.]

I need to replace the axle on my 1985 Scamp 16. A previous post, suggeted Red Neck Trailers as a source for a new axle. I went to their web site, and I am having difficulty determining which axle would be correct for my trailer. Does anyone have a part number?

It's more than just a part number. Your best bet is to call Scamp and give them the VIN number. Scamp will give you a bunch of numbers/measurements... hub to hub length, etc. THOSE are the numbers you'll give to Red Neck/Dexter and the ones they'll use to build your axle.

Be sure to read Kevin K's topic... this topic is starting to sound like a repeat of a lot of that information:
Should I cut here?, Trailer axle

[WayneJ]

OK, I will call again tomorrow - but when I called today, Scamp was no help. They told me that freight cost from Scamp to Chicago would be cost prohibitive at $230. They also said they couldn't give a p/n, and did not ask for the vin#. I will try again tomorrow, maybe I will talk to a different person.

[Donna D.]

No, you don't want to get the part from Scamp, you want to get it locally. Tell the parts guy.. or whomever you're talking to you want to order a Dexter axle, and you need the hub-to-hub measurement. Tell them you HEARD they can give you information based on the VIN.

Now, I did this pre-Scamp fire. I spoke with Justin (whom I think is no-longer with the company). He went to the office and pulled the build sheet (his words not mine) for my 1988 Scamp and gave me the numbers I needed.

Bearing that, can you pull the trailer to whever you're going to have the work done (or are you doing it yourself?) and have them take the measurements they need?

[WayneJ]

I followed the advice given, and I was able to order the axle I need. Here is what I found out: I spoke with Kent, the owner of Scamp. All the records were burned up in the fire, so they cannot give out specs based on vin #, but he told me that the correct Dexter replacement axle for my trailer was a Dexter 10TF35. Additional specs: Capacity 3500 lbs; Hub Face 65 1/4"; Outside of Bracket Dimmension: 49 3/4"; Start Angle 22.5 degrees down; 10 inch electric brake; 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern, EZ lube option. Red Neck Trailer gave me the name of one of their local dealers and I ordered the axle from them for $334. The only change I made to the specs I got from Scamp is that I made the outside bracket dimension the same as my outside frame dimension (48 1/4"). The current axle bracket extends outside the frame ( I believe because Scamp welds the bracket on ). The diagram that the dealer supplied me asked for the outside frame dimension. Since I would like to bolt the axle to my frame, rather than weld, it seemed to me that the outside braket dimension and the outside frame dimension should be the same as the dealer's worksheet showed.

Thanks again to all who replied. It was hard to understand what information was needed based on Dexter's online catalogue. Finding the right person to talk to at Scamp, and the order diagram that my dealer used made it comprehensible!

[Brian B-P]

...he told me that the correct Dexter replacement axle for my trailer was a Dexter 10TF35. Additional specs: Capacity 3500 lbs; Hub Face 65 1/4"; Outside of Bracket Dimmension: 49 3/4"...

...The only change I made to the specs I got from Scamp is that I made the outside bracket dimension the same as my outside frame dimension (48 1/4"). The current axle bracket extends outside the frame ( I believe because Scamp welds the bracket on ). The diagram that the dealer supplied me asked for the outside frame dimension. Since I would like to bolt the axle to my frame, rather than weld, it seemed to me that the outside braket dimension and the outside frame dimension should be the same as the dealer's worksheet showed.

Given the experience reported in Failure of Axle Brackets on Scamp 5W Trailers, this is an important observation and if I were doing this I would be very careful to ensure that I understood the meaning of the various dimensions. Someone at Scamp clearly did not in that case, but I think they might in this case.

The Torflex Installation section of Dexter's catalog (available from their website) illustrates and describes the installation and measurement method, including

Axle bracket position is the distance as measured over the outboard edges of the brackets. This dimension is usually
matched to the outside measurement of the frame members but depending on the type of frame may not always be
suitable. The preferred arrangement should place the longest vertical section of the axle bracket directly under the most rigid
section of the frame member.

and this illustration:




The "most rigid" reference applies to C-channel and I-beam frame rails; with rectangular box sections like my Boler (and I believe like the Scamp), either the inside face or the outside face of the frame would be equally suitable.

It looks to me like the use of the side mounting hanger (the bolt-on method) does not change the width to specify: exactly the same axle (with the same bracket positions, on the same frame spacing) can be welded directly or bolted to the hangers.

Note that in the illustration the frame width happens to match the width of the brackets (2.50" for a #10 Torflex); this does not apply to a Scamp (which apparently has a narrower frame; not surprising since even my big Boler has a 2" wide frame rail), which is presumably why there is an overhang of the bracket past (the inside or the outside of) the frame.

This frame width issue is important: if the "longest vertical section of the axle bracket" is on the inside, then the space between those inside faces should match the inside of the frame rails... that would make the outer spacing of the axle brackets (intentionally and correctly) wider than the outside spacing of the frame rails. The supplier may be assuming - and assumptions are always dangerous - that the frame rails are the same width as the axle brackets, in which case it would not matter whether you used inside or outside measures (as long as you used the same for both axle and frame).

[Pete Dumbleton]

If you are going to bolt the axle to the frame, I advise using the extra weld-bolt bracket that Dexter makes for this purpose. The extra bracket is strongly welded to the frame and the axle is strongly bolted to the bracket. Attempting to bolt the axle directly to the frame may result in a less than strong connection. It's also called a "side mount hanger" and is shown in the diagram in Brian's post above. It is not part of the basic axle and the measurements may differ from Scamp's measurements for the original axle.

Here's the Dexter and Redneck part numbers and description of the extra bracket for a #8 (13' trailer) axle, which also appears to be the right bracket for a #9:

AP165 046910 WELD ON MOUNTING KIT FOR #8 TORFLEX AXLES

Here's the Dexter Installation PDF which shows the application. Actually, in this PDF, Dexter recommends using this bracket for installation to frames like Scamp or Boler or early Casita and recommends bolting directly to the frame on the style used in the newer Casitas (with an extra plate welded on to reinforce the frame). IOW, even with bolt-on methods, the original installation of an axle on a frame will entail some welding, but subsequent replacements are bolt-on.

BTW, the manufacturers of the axles number them serially and keep "as-built" records, so if there is an axle tag or stenciling, one can call the appropriate plant and get the exact dimensions and options (lots of them) for that particular axle.

[KamperBob]

Wayne, you might consider top bolting your new axle directly into the box tubing. That's what I did with a new Dexter axle on my 91S19 earlier this year. You can see pix on the Yahoo Mods+ group. You have to subscribe but it's free. Here's a link to the photo album.

http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Sca...tos/browse/aa3c

The trick was NOT matching the frame outside flush but centering the bolt holes under the box tubing. If I remember correctly the Dexter flanges were 2.5" wide and the Scamp frame tubing was 1.5" so to get 47" center-to-center I ordered 49.5" and it fit perfectly. If your frame outside happens to be more or less than 48.5" (for some reason) then you may need to adjust accordingly. HTH

Cheers,
-KB

[Brian B-P]

The trick was NOT matching the frame outside flush but centering the bolt holes under the box tubing. If I remember correctly the Dexter flanges were 2.5" wide and the Scamp frame tubing was 1.5" so to get 47" center-to-center I ordered 49.5" and it fit perfectly.

I understand that the bracket was centred on the frame tubing so that the holes would be in the middle of the tubing (not too near either edge); however, the result is that the primary load-bearing side of the bracket - the "longest vertical section of the axle bracket" - is hanging 0.5" beyond the frame tube on the inside (the left side in the fourth photo in the Yahoo set). I believe that this is not what Dexter is recommending, and I personally would not directly bolt through the top holes to the frame unless the frame tube were wide enough to both line up the long side of the bracket with one side of the frame tube, and still properly accommodate the bolt holes.

I would prefer to have the Dexter mounting kit welded on, and bolt that axle to that, with a 1.5" wide frame tube... but that's just my opinion.

The nuts welded on to a plate are a nice touch. It's fortunate that the frame is apparently open-ended and straight enough to be able to insert the plate.

[KamperBob]

With top bolting the lack of any welds (particularly in a bad place) outweighs the small amount of bracket offset. If we're splitting hairs then subtracting the thickness of the axle bracket leaves an unsupported ledge between 1/4 and 3/8 inch, and part of that contains curvature from the right angle bends of the axle brackets which make them stronger, so the amount of offset by centering 2.5" wide axle brackets under a 1.5" wide frame is small in practice. Also with the load bearing bracket turned inside it's not completely free of contact support, so the mismatch is even less of a worry.

An important consideration with a 19' 5th wheel is height. The loft has to clear the truck box. Late model trucks keep getting taller. IF my tug gets totaled (god forbid) or WHEN the egg wears it out (eventually) the replacement truck will certainly be taller and will likely require raising the trailer. Inserting spacers in 5-10 years will be easier on an older me and less traumatic to the frame.

The SMA brackets are a fine option. Top bolting is my preference. YMMV

Cheers,
-KB

[WayneJ]

Just to complete the thread: I did "correct" my order for the dexter axle, and I requested the outside dimension for the axle brackets to be 49.5"

[KamperBob]

Wayne, I look forward to a follow up report on your axle installation eventually if you don't mind.
Maybe you'll have an additional tip.

Cheers,
-KB

[WayneJ]

Continuing my axle replacement saga:

I am actually replacing both my frame, and the axle.

I am quite satisfied with the new frame, except, the fabricator welded the axle to the frame, rather than bolted the axle to the frame.

Should I be concerned? Should I have the axle remounted?

Thank you for your advice

[Brian B-P]

The reason for bolting is to make later replacement easier, by avoiding the effort of grinding off the old welds and welding again. To change from welded to bolted (using the Dexter side-mount bracket) would mean grinding off the just-done welds, welding on the bracket, and bolting the axle in place.

Since I don't see an advantage to expending that effort now rather than maybe later - except that the fabricator might absorb the cost - as long as the axle is properly mounted I would just leave it.