Big Scare last Weekend

[FTTRV]

Driving south on I-205 in Portland,Oregon we saw a 3 car wreck explode in front of a big truck ahead of us. Car parts were flying everywhere. Our tow vehicle was the correct size to stop our trailer and avoid hitting anything. A word to the wise do not under match your tow rig to the trailer weight for towing. Can your tow rig stop the trailer if you were traveling the speed limit? I have read so many posts about towing on this forum, I wanted to share this with you.
Chuck

[Ice-breaker]

That is why I have trailer brakes.

[Pam Garlow]

Glad to hear you are ok as is your trailer. None of us ever think it can happen to us....

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ice-breaker

That is why I have trailer brakes.

My first thought too, Dave.

Glad to hear everything is fine with you and your vehicles, Chuck.

[MC1]

A big discussion on another RV forum today about the "size" of the TV.

Compare the stopping distance of a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 and our mid size sport sedan (our TV of choice).

Dodge Ram 1500 60MPH to 0..... 151'

2003 Infiniti G35 sedan 60MPH to 0.... 114'

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

A big discussion on another RV forum today about the "size" of the TV.

Compare the stopping distance of a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 and our mid size sport sedan (our TV of choice).

Dodge Ram 1500 60MPH to 0..... 151'

2003 Infiniti G35 sedan 60MPH to 0.... 114'

Who did the testing? where those numbers with a trailer attached?
Do you have a link? would like to see the number of makes.

[MC1]

Tundra 151' Toyota Tundra or Dodge Ram 1500? - Yahoo! Answers

Dodge 1500 141' Toyota Tundra or Dodge Ram 1500? - Yahoo! Answers

Infiniti G35 114' 2003 Infiniti G35 Performance Specs | eHow

[Gilda]

We had a big scare TODAY driving north on HW 1 from Big Sur, California. The road is curvy with a single lane on each side, with a double-yellow line (no passing) because of blind curves. About five cars were oncoming when a red car pulled out to pass the others narrowly missing us head-on! Thanks to smart thinking and quick but steady reaction from my DH we, and everyone else, missed a head-on collision and it's aftermath! You never know what the other guy will do. Please, everyone drive with patience, follow the law and be safe!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

Tundra 151' Toyota Tundra or Dodge Ram 1500? - Yahoo! Answers

Dodge 1500 141' Toyota Tundra or Dodge Ram 1500? - Yahoo! Answers

Infiniti G35 114' 2003 Infiniti G35 Performance Specs | eHow

Basically the above links provide what are the manufactures specs in regards to stopping distance when not towing. No references to stopping distance when towing. Only thing it does confirming is the lighter car when not towing anything is likely to stop faster than a heavier car when not towing. No surprise there.

Would be more interested in seeing the stopping numbers & how the stopping distance change with a trailer of the same size attached to each of those tugs.

[chuyler1]

Using 60-0 distances/times of unloaded vehicles to gauge the quality of a TV is not a good way to argue tow vehicle safety.

I can see how having too large a TV doesn't help. Stopping the large mass of the TV can prove to be part of the problem. However, a light TV is not the best solution either because the trailer can take over control in an emergency stop. The bigger risk with using vehicles not necessarily designed for towing is that their brakes, wheelbase and suspension are not optimized for it.

Street pads on most cars (even sport sedans) are designed for cold quiet dust-free stopping. Anyone that has taken their sport sedan to the track knows all to well how poorly street pads hold up to repeated abuse...the same abuse you could apply to them with repeatedly stopping a heavy load. Truck braking systems are thoroughly tested with their rated tow weights to ensure they won't fade or fail. They may compromise stopping power for heat resistance resulting in longer, but consistent stopping distances.

I'm sure the G35 is fine for towing, but I would never come to the conclusion that it is safer than towing with a fullsize pickup just because it can stop 30ft sooner with one adult in the driver's seat and nothing in tow.

[Jim Bennett]

I have WAY more confidence in my Honda Pilot than I do with my Ford F250, in doing an emergency stop towing the trailer. Of course, I ensure my brakes are always set up properly in the trailer. I know many do not like the feel of the trailer pulling back on the tow, and back then off to less than what is recommended in the controller setup.

Basically, the trailer brakes should pretty much be doing all the braking for the trailer itself.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by MC1

A big discussion on another RV forum today about the "size" of the TV. Compare the stopping distance of a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 and our mid size sport sedan (our TV of choice). Dodge Ram 1500 60MPH to 0..... 151' 2003 Infiniti G35 sedan 60MPH to 0.... 114'

Ok. So put a 4,000 pound trailer behind them on a nice long downhill, and see what happens. Next, unplug the trailer so it's brakes don't work, and see what happens. My subaru will stop faster than my pickup all day long. Everything changes with a trailer behind it. Even if it could stop as fast, you would probably be pointed the wrong way, assuming you were even still on the road.

I've had the brakes fail on a 2500 pound trailer behind a half ton pickup in an emergency situation. I wouldn't be alive if it was with a car rated for that weight.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Jared J

I've had the brakes fail on a 2500 pound trailer behind a half ton pickup in an emergency situation. I wouldn't be alive if it was with a car rated for that weight.

What caused the brakes to fail? I have never had this happen with many thousands of miles of towing. The only time the brakes did not work was when some idiot (oh yeah, that was me), forgot to connect to the tow.

Properly maintained brakes on the trailer for me is just as important as on the tow vehicle. I am not fussy with lots of components on my vehicles, but anything that affects driving performance, I definitely am. Part of this comes from towing with big trucks and trailers, where often the trailer outweighs the truck by many times.

[MC1]

Numerous braking tests with trailers in tow have already been done comparing various types of vehicles in all kinds of situations. Based on those tests we bought the TV we have and enjoyed the towing experience very much.

For anyone who really wants the optimal braking experience have a set of these Hawk brake pads installed. On our vehicle it made the suburb braking even better....

Hawk Performance HPS Performance Street Brake Pads | Hawk HPS Street Pads

What prompted my posts here was the fact I parked beside a Dodge RAM 1500 the other day. I noticed how dinky the front brake rotors were on the pickup. They were no larger than the ones on our mid sized car. Couldn't believe it.

[chuyler1]

I have those pads on my Mazdaspeed6. They are my 3rd set of pads for the car and my least favorite. They take a few stops to warm up, especially in cold weather. I bled my brakes 3 times thinking there was air in the lines but its just the initial feel of the pads in cold weather compared to my previous pads.

As for brake size, you have been a victim of the dreaded optical illusion.

2008 Dodge Ram 1500 rotor size: 13.230(front) 13.860(rear)
2008 Infiniti G35 rotor size: 12.600(front) 12.110(rear)

I chose 2008 because that's the last year of the G35. Your 2003 only has 11.490 inch front rotors.

The truck brakes look smaller because the wheels are larger. Trucks also have larger rear brakes which will get more use with a full load and heavy tongue weight.

[Bruce H]

Ideally the trailer brakes should be stopping the trailer while the TV brakes stop the TV.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by chuyler1

I have those pads on my Mazdaspeed6. They are my 3rd set of pads for the car and my least favorite. They take a few stops to warm up, especially in cold weather. I bled my brakes 3 times thinking there was air in the lines but its just the initial feel of the pads in cold weather compared to my previous pads.

Wow, that is a nasty report and the 1st negative report I have read about Hawks.

I just replaced my 2nd set of pads and rotors on the G when it had 190,000klm's. That is good service considering 200hr's of towing the 23'. I have found that towing the trailer has no adverse affect on the car's brake wear. The trailer has 4 2X12" drum brakes and when set up right they engage a pinch before the car brakes kick in. Therefore the trailer pulls back on the car when braking which creates the straight line stability when stopping.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by chuyler1

The truck brakes look smaller because the wheels are larger.

And that is the kicker (another reason why the truck has such long stopping distances). The rims and tires were huge. Anyone who has installed oversized (diameter) tires on a vehicle knows how the braking ability decreases.

Bottom line...... The Dodge has big heavy tires, smallish rotors, and long stopping distances. Not a vehicle you will see parked in my driveway!

[chuyler1]

Regarding the Hawks...
I wouldn't call it nasty, just a different feel. The OEM pads worked best but turned the wheels black a week after washing them. Centric Posi Quiets left virtually no dust but I didn't feel they stopped as well. I've had the Hawks for about 20k and I've gotten used to them. When I drive other vehicles I'm reminded of how slow they are to respond when you first touch the pedal. Once warmed up I'd say they are equivalent to the Posi Quiets as far as performance goes.

Regarding your trailer pulling back...
You don't want the trailer to do too much braking. If it is pulling back on the car it is also pushing down on the tongue and lifting the front wheels. You want to make sure the front end of your TV still dives a little (not a lot) under hard braking so you can steer in an emergency maneuver.

And back to the truck wheel options...
The stopping distance difference between wheel size and weight is negligible compared to overall vehicle weight and tire compound. The Ram 1500 has got to be 1,000 lbs heavier and the fact that it stops only 30ft longer on all season tires compared to the infiniti's summer performance tires isn't half bad. Throw some performance tires on the truck and you'll probably cut that distance in half.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by chuyler1

Regarding your trailer pulling back...
You don't want the trailer to do too much braking. If it is pulling back on the car it is also pushing down on the tongue and lifting the front wheels. You want to make sure the front end of your TV still dives a little (not a lot) under hard braking so you can steer in an emergency maneuver.

Agree! We are on the same page. Correct set up is so important. Also another reason we take advantage of the use of a WDH. It really resists any added tongue weight when braking.