Brake Controllers on cars that might brake automatically - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-24-2013, 11:23 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Raz View Post
When I wired my Forester, Subaru provided a connector for trailer lights back under the cargo area cover. I bought a light converter from etrailer that plugged in to it and generated the 4 pin light connection. One of the wires (red I think) into the converter is the brake lights. I spliced in there for my brake controller input. It avoided messing around with the very hard to get to brake pedal switch. Raz
I'm curious... With this setup, do your Forester's tail lights illuminate when you use the manual lever on the brake controller?
__________________

__________________
-Jesse
SOLD! - 1984 Scamp 13 in Maryland.
mcbrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 12:45 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
I would do neither

As others have suggested if it a Tekonsha Prodigy controller Tekonsha should be able to provide the actual instructions for your Outback. Lots of vehicles these days have the same auto braking safety feature. When I had mine installed on my Outback the people who installed it got the instructions from Tekonsha for the hard wiring and they only called the Subaru dealer to get an idea on the best/easiest spot that Subaru recommended for putting the wiring through the firewall.

You might even find your answer on a Subaru discussion form.
__________________

Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 04:36 AM   #17
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,059
The brake light input on the brake controller is a high impedance input, that is it will not load what it is connected to. If it draws microamps I would be surpassed. As such you can connect it to any point where the brake light voltage is present and remains constant for the duration of the pedal activation. Anything that's pulsed could be an issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrew View Post
I'm curious... With this setup, do your Forester's tail lights illuminate when you use the manual lever on the brake controller?
Since the brake controller, when activated, supplies power only to the brake magnets on the trailer, activating the manual lever should not effect the lights. (Creative wiring excepted. ) Raz
__________________
Raz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 12:10 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrew View Post
I'm curious... With this setup, do your Forester's tail lights illuminate when you use the manual lever on the brake controller?
As Raz indicated using the manual lever on the brake controller should never impact the brakes or lights on the car.... the whole reason for using the manual lever is to apply brakes to trailer only in order to help control a sway situation more effectively.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 01:48 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Name: Roy
Trailer: 1972 boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Ontario
Posts: 4,954
I like to consider the trailer brakes as my back up emergency brake system. My current 94 Ranger has had more brake failures than all of my other vehicles combined. I can safely say that I can add all of Carol Ann's vehicles into that mix. We regularily service our vehicles.
__________________
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:14 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Raz View Post
Since the brake controller, when activated, supplies power only to the brake magnets on the trailer, activating the manual lever should not effect the lights.
I do not believe that this is true for a typical controller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
As Raz indicated using the manual lever on the brake controller should never impact the brakes or lights on the car.... the whole reason for using the manual lever is to apply brakes to trailer only in order to help control a sway situation more effectively.
I agree that manual activation of the trailer brake controller should not affect the tow vehicle's brakes, but it can run the lights of both the trailer and tow vehicle. The controller can put out power on the brake light switch wire (which is normally used only as an input). For examples...

The manual for the Curt Discovery controller lists "Manual Control activates brake lights" as a feature, and in the Manual Control section:
Quote:
The Manual Control activates the tow vehicle and trailer stoplights.
Draw-Tite Activator 5100 manual:
Quote:
The manual control activates the tow vehicle and trailer stoplights and the output indicator on the control unit.
Hayes Energize operation manual:
Quote:
• The tow vehicle and trailer brake stoplights will be illuminated during the manual lever activation
Dexter Predator DX2 instruction sheet
Quote:
The tow vehicle and trailer brake stoplights will be illuminated during the manual lever activation.
The wiring of this controller calls for a 20 amp fuse on the red brake light wire; for a signal to the controller one amp would be lots, so the 20 A is to handle the power to run the tow vehicle and trailer lights.

In the Valley Journey HD installation instructions among the Features:
Quote:
Stop Lamp Activation - When applying the trailer brakes by utilizing the manual slider alone, the Journey HD will supply power to the trailer’s brake lights.
When installed in the usual manner, the controller's output on the brake light switch wire should be seen by the tow vehicle's stop lamp circuit exactly like the brake pedal being pressed, so both the tow vehicle and trailer brake lights should come on. When installed as Raz has done, the result will depend on the wiring in the tow vehicle for trailer lights: if they are simply tapped in, the controller will light up both vehicles; if there is an isolation circuit, the tow vehicle's lights may not operate but the trailer should.

I don't know if all trailer brake controllers include this feature, but a vehicle braking without stop lamps illuminated is generally bad, so I would expect the best practice to be to include this feature. Many of us use Tekonsha controllers, such as the Prodigy series, and I don't see any reference to running lights during manual activation in their installation manuals or FAQs; however, I also don't see a warning that lights will not be illuminated.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,543
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by boley View Post
Right now I suppose there are 2 viable options to combat cars that may automatically brake:

1) Use surge brakes.

2) Disable the auto-braking safety feature in the tow vehicle. [B] This is probably the route I will take until something more robust appears.

I presume that by "disable" you don't mean you're going to rip the autobraking system out since as I'm sure you already know, it can be "turned off" via a switch. Subaru's info page on this system also indicates that it may not work anyway when towing with the vehicle (regardless of brakes on towed unit), so turning it off when towing seems prudent to me. That way one wouldn't be depending on it.

Especially given Subaru's assertion re. "may not work when towing", I think this is a better option than surge brakes. In my opinion they're inferior in many ways to controller-actuated brakes. Also, surge-type brakes are in fact not even legal in some jurisdictions, depending on trailer size.

Francesca
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 04:29 PM   #22
Junior Member
 
boley's Avatar
 
Name: B
Trailer: 1982 Casita 13'
Virginia
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
I presume that by "disable" you don't mean you're going to rip the autobraking system out since as I'm sure you already know, it can be "turned off" via a switch.
Yep, using the on/off switches is the plan. This is a daily driver - towing is just an occasional job.

I have emailed both Subaru and Tekonsha to see if there are any specific considerations for this system. If I hear any thing back I will update.
__________________
boley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 05:34 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,543
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Raz View Post
If what you say is true, I stand corrected. My prodigy doesn't work that way. Raz
This is something new to me...it never occurred to me that my trailer brake lights wouldn't illuminate when using the manual knob. Mine is a Tekonsha though not a Prodigy and I'm sure as heck going to check this out! And I'm even more surprised to hear that your Prodigy doesn't do so, since some do, or are supposed to.

At least according to E-trailer per the Prodigy P3, here quoting from this link

Quote:
If ever there is a time that you need to brake your trailer separately from your tow vehicle - when traveling down a steep incline, for example - the manual override lever is easily accessible. Pushing this lever engages the brakes on your trailer with full power. In addition, when you activate this override, the brake lights on your trailer will illuminate, properly warning those behind you of the braking action of your rig.
Francesca
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 05:55 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Glenn Baglo's Avatar
 
Name: Glenn ( second 'n' is silent )
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B '08 RAV4 SPORT V6
British Columbia
Posts: 4,369
I have the Prodigy and as I recall, in the instruction on set-up, they tell you to drive down a road at 40mph and manually apply the brakes to see if the wheels lock up. They warn that the trailer lights will not activate when you do this.
__________________
Glenn Baglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:00 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
On my Tekonsha Prodigy P2 when using the manual lever it does trigger the trailer breaks lights - cant say for sure on the tugs lights but will have to check it out one of these days. If one has a set up that the manual lever doesnt trigger the tug brake lights and only the trailer brake lights I would not be to concerned about it. Whether or not the tug lights come on or not might be a bit of mute point on the hopefully rare occasions you actually need to apply the manual lever. In most situations the party following you is looking at your trailer brake lights and not your tug brake lights - not to mention in most situations they cant even see your tugs lights. If no trailer lights came on then that would be a bigger concern to me.

B have you tried talking to your local Subaru service center. They may be able to answer your question faster. To be honest I dont think I would actually want to have the cars avoidance feature on when towing. Cant say one way or another but I might be worried it might result in a few more fast/sudden swings than wanted when towing.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:18 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Prodigy
Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Raz
My prodigy doesn't work that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
I have the Prodigy and as I recall, in the instruction on set-up, they tell you to drive down a road at 40mph and manually apply the brakes to see if the wheels lock up. They warn that the trailer lights will not activate when you do this.
P2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
On my Tekonsha Prodigy P2 when using the manual lever it does trigger the trailer breaks lights...
P3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
At least according to E-trailer per the Prodigy P3, here quoting from this link
Quote:
.. the manual override lever is easily accessible. Pushing this lever engages the brakes on your trailer with full power. In addition, when you activate this override, the brake lights on your trailer will illuminate ...
The warning that Glenn found does not occur in the corresponding section of the P3 manual. If Glenn and Raz have the original Prodigy, perhaps Tekonsha changed approach between generations... apparently between the original and the P2.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:23 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Glenn Baglo's Avatar
 
Name: Glenn ( second 'n' is silent )
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B '08 RAV4 SPORT V6
British Columbia
Posts: 4,369
I just went out to the trailer and reviewed the instructions and I can find no warning that the brake lights won't work when manual is applied. I have no idea where I got that from.
__________________
Glenn Baglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 07:01 PM   #28
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,059
It occurred to me that there is a difference between my two vehicles. The Subaru I wired as described. The Frontier was factory wired for the brake controller. I deleted my original post to determine if it was wiring or controller. I confirmed by measurement on both vehicles that my prodigy does not light the brake lights when the manual lever is activated. Raz
__________________

__________________
Raz is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brake Controllers Kip in Ga. Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 19 11-07-2010 06:22 AM
Brake Controllers Chester Taje Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 16 02-05-2008 10:52 PM
Brake Controllers ConnieB Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 16 09-13-2007 11:22 PM
Brake controllers Lainey Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 8 07-21-2007 07:58 PM
Brake Controllers Alan P. Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 16 06-05-2007 02:51 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.