Brake Controllers on cars that might brake automatically - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-25-2013, 07:14 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by P. Raz View Post
It occurred to me that there is a difference between my two vehicles. The Subaru I wired as described. The Frontier was factory wired for the brake controller. I deleted my original post to determine if it was wiring or controller. I confirmed by measurement on both vehicles that my prodigy does not light the brake lights when the manual lever is activated. Raz
I suspect Raz the reason the brake lights work on my trailer with my Outback is also due to the difference in how our brake controllers were wired in. Mine wasnt tapped into the wiring under the rear cargo area it was all hard wired in up front and through the firewall using a wiring harness designed for a Subaru.

Glenn I think you may have been thinking about the instructions regarding setting up saying to take it out to a road with little traffic and do a few test stops. I think they just wanted us to be careful with sudden stops with traffic behind us.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:16 PM   #30
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B have you tried talking to your local Subaru service center. They may be able to answer your question faster. To be honest I dont think I would actually want to have the cars avoidance feature on when towing. Cant say one way or another but I might be worried it might result in a few more fast/sudden swings than wanted when towing.
Subaru dealer was my first call last week. The service writer, parts guy, and service mechanic were all clueless about anything related to Eyesight.

I did receive a call back from a Subaru customer service rep a little bit ago. She kept saying something along the lines of "you cannot install a 6 or 7 pin adapter because it will interfere with Eyesight". She was obviously just reading from an email because any of my questions just resulted in her quoting the same phrase. Her info makes zero sense, I don't see how a splice connector on 1 line and a charge line can affect a camera system - and she could not explain it either.

I asked her to escalate to a technician. I also called the salesman I worked with, he has been around for ever and may have a useful contact at Subaru.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:48 PM   #31
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Subaru dealer was my first call last week. The service writer, parts guy, and service mechanic were all clueless about anything related to Eyesight.

I did receive a call back from a Subaru customer service rep a little bit ago. She kept saying something along the lines of "you cannot install a 6 or 7 pin adapter because it will interfere with Eyesight". She was obviously just reading from an email because any of my questions just resulted in her quoting the same phrase. Her info makes zero sense, I don't see how a splice connector on 1 line and a charge line can affect a camera system - and she could not explain it either.

I asked her to escalate to a technician. I also called the salesman I worked with, he has been around for ever and may have a useful contact at Subaru.
Wonder what she would have said if you pointed out to her that your manual indicates you have to use brakes on the trailer and how is one suppose to do that if you dont have a 6 or 7 pin connection? Might have got an interesting response.

Hopefully you will get a call back. I got a lot of misinfo from Subaru America customer service who as you say are just reading something out of book or an email when I first tried to set my car up correctly for towing. The good news for me was the local service manager tows with an Outback so he was able to answer all my questions and point me down the right road with factual info that actually worked. The reality is such a small number of Subaru are used for towing that their customer service people and many dealers are not well informed on the topic. I recall someone posting here once that they were told by their local deal they could only put a class I hitch on their Subaru or their warranty would be voided ... the truth was that was the only hitch option Subaru offered themselves at the time, no voiding of warranty issue .... go figure.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:50 PM   #32
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FYI to O.P. Boley:

There's a very vigorous discussion of the Eyesight system going on right now at the Subaru Outback forum...suggest that while you wait to hear from Subaru, you might be well advised to sign up there and ask this question. Subaru Eyesight Discussion

If you do, come back here and let us know what you find out!

Francesca
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:03 PM   #33
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FYI to O.P. Boley:

There's a very vigorous discussion of the Eyesight system going on right now at the Subaru Outback forum...suggest that while you wait to hear from Subaru, you might be well advised to sign up there and ask this question. Subaru Eyesight Discussion

If you do, come back here and let us know what you find out!

Francesca
Thanks for the idea. I am actually registered over there as well (same screen name). I read that thread you mentioned a day or so ago. I looks like the thread had degenerated into a poo flinging contest.

For the record: I like the Eyesight system for driving. Adaptive cruise is enjoyable and the "what if" protection is reassuring. I just have to get Subaru to figure out how I can tow in an Eyesight equipped car!

If any other Outback owners stumble in, this thread is pretty great for info on how to convert to a 7 pin harness. See post #9 anyone ever add 7 pin trailer plug??? - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:07 PM   #34
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Maybe you can get 'em back on track! Or ask the question in a whole new thread-? Do they have a specific "towing" area of the forum?

I'm real interested in this question, and I think it more likely you'll get some experienced answers over there than you might here, what with the bigger pool of owners and all that...

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Old 06-25-2013, 09:08 PM   #35
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LOL the thread is mainly people singing endless praise for the Eyesight system and how they would never get another car without it.... now degenerated into a poo fit as the OP said with those who cant live without against those who think they can who are pretty out numbered. Nothing there to help the OP on his question.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:38 PM   #36
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LOL the thread is mainly people singing endless praise for the Eyesight system and how they would never get another car without it.... now degenerated into a poo fit as the OP said with those who cant live without against those who think they can who are pretty out numbered. Nothing there to help the OP on his question.
I only suggested that he ask the question among folks who are already talking about it.

I guess that's a bad idea since the site is obviously populated mostly by a bunch of curmudgeonly folks who fall into bizarre off-topic, endless, pointless back-and-forths at the slightest opportunity ....unlike here at Fiberglassrv.

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Old 06-25-2013, 10:52 PM   #37
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I'm willing to bet that when this system applies the brakes it also applies the brake lights. It would be unsafe for the system to apply full braking power and not alert drivers behind you. With that in mind, I would connect your brake controller to the brake light wiring and not the brake switch.

However, I think towing with such a system is extremely unsafe and you should strongly consider disabling it when you are towing and rely upon your own senses to keep the car from hitting other objects. After all these systems are designed more for distracted drivers and if you fall into that category you really shouldn't be towing anything, ever. Put down the cell phone and keep your eyes on the road. Leave the trinkets and electronic do-dads for the people that can't stay in their own lane.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:03 PM   #38
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I'm willing to bet that when this system applies the brakes it also applies the brake lights. It would be unsafe for the system to apply full braking power and not alert drivers behind you. With that in mind, I would connect your brake controller to the brake light wiring and not the brake switch.
The issue may be with just tapping into the Subaru connector for the trailer lights at the rear is that as Raz has found the trailer brake lights dont come on when the manual lever is used. On the other side of the coin my Subaru was wired per the Tekonsha instructions all up front and the trailer lights do come on when the manual lever is used.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:45 AM   #39
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Perhaps I was wrong

I have not observed my brake lights come on when the manual lever is activated. There are 4 wires going to the brake controller. Two are power. One activates the brake magnets and is completely independent of the light circuits. In order for the lights to come on when the manual lever is activated, the fourth, the sense line, needs to be bidirectional and source current to the lights. To verify that wasn't happening in my case I measured the stop light pin on my trailer connector with a voltmeter on both vehicles. With key on, the brake pedal produced a voltage when pressed but activating the lever did not, thus confirming what I observed.

That said, despite my prodigy being older, it makes no sense that mine would function differently and as Brian points out activating the brakes without lights is dangerous. I suspect what happens is that the brake sense line becomes bidirectional only when the controller senses a complete circuit to the magnets ( nc vs .c on the prodigy). Both tow vehicles have at least partial factory wiring which isolates the tow vehicle brake lights so they don't come on but I suspect the trailer lights do come on but are out of my vision from the drivers seat. Next time we connect up I will have to verify this. Raz
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:19 PM   #40
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I have not observed my brake lights come on when the manual lever is activated. There are 4 wires going to the brake controller. Two are power. One activates the brake magnets and is completely independent of the light circuits. In order for the lights to come on when the manual lever is activated, the fourth, the sense line, needs to be bidirectional and source current to the lights. To verify that wasn't happening in my case I measured the stop light pin on my trailer connector with a voltmeter on both vehicles. With key on, the brake pedal produced a voltage when pressed but activating the lever did not, thus confirming what I observed.

That said, despite my prodigy being older, it makes no sense that mine would function differently and as Brian points out activating the brakes without lights is dangerous. I suspect what happens is that the brake sense line becomes bidirectional only when the controller senses a complete circuit to the magnets ( nc vs .c on the prodigy). Both tow vehicles have at least partial factory wiring which isolates the tow vehicle brake lights so they don't come on but I suspect the trailer lights do come on but are out of my vision from the drivers seat. Next time we connect up I will have to verify this. Raz
Finally got to checking this out this week. It turns out that my Prodigy does not activate the brake lights on the trailer when the manual control is activated. Since mine was purchased in 2004, I can only assume this is a feature added later. Raz
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:47 PM   #41
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...Here is my perception about automobile brake system and trailer hooked up related: 1/ Manual hand brake or emergency brake in an automobile is used by...purely mechanical source which came from..human energy. So it will not affect to brake light of a car, neither to brake controller for braking a trailer hooked up with the car...2/ Regular brake system of a car is used by...hydraulic system which is activated by either brake pedal depressed or...cruise control activated or any other fancy, automatic sensor system. In this manner, whenever brake lights of the car are on, by electrical signal from brake pedal wiring, the brakes will be applied by hydraulic source in car and also trailer with their e brakes by electrical signal...3/ No matter how fancy/automatic brake system of a car has, when its' brake lights are on, the brake is activated and also ebrake of trailer due to basically parallel connection of trailer ebrake with car brake wiring...I could be wrong though, hopefully get more clarification from brake controller's manufacturers or car dealerships...
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