Brakes on Lil Snooze

[carlkeigley]

It IS a boat trailer Jared.

So we don't have to worry about moisture
when we back our trailers into the lake.

[Jared J]

Well, that explains the surge brakes.

[carlkeigley]

Seems the boat forums have the same arguments.............
**************************************************
I've never used electric brakes. My last boat had surge brake issues that I traced to the master cylinder. Couldn't figure out how come my brakes were hot. Come to find out the master cylinder was sticking and not completely disengaging. Installed a new master cylinder and problem was resolved.

Overall surge brakes are no different than drum brakes on a car. Just inspect them periodically and you should be in good shape.

I tow alot through mountains and I like the surge brakes going down hill because they will engage and keep me slowed down.

As far as backing up the trailer with surge brakes, I haven't found any negative issues associated with it.


Surge Brakes – Issues with them? - Boat Talk - Chaparral Boats Owners Club

[carlkeigley]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Well, that explains the surge brakes.

Yep. The trailers must be a better deal than building them
and then charging a upgrade for surge brakes...................LOL

Some have ordered them with electric brakes.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

I agree with Mike and have a preference for electric brakes for the same reasons he gave.
I have to say that outside of a small malfunction which was easily repaired shortly after taking delivery of my Lil Snoozy that I have since had absolutely no issues with my brakes 10 K miles later.
The first time our trailer needs brake work I plan on converting to electric and again for the same reasons Mike gave.
I have looked on line and have seen conversion kits. Looks pretty simple to convert.

[Brian B-P]

One could say that electric brakes are terrible because someone tried to tow an electric brake trailer without a controller, and the brakes didn't work. Maybe electric brakes are terrible because someone tried to tow an electric brake trailer with worn out brakes and they screamed down a mountain out of control. Jared, did that trailer which wouldn't back up have either free-backing brakes or a reverse solenoid which was hooked up to the reverse light circuit and working? Keep in mind that much experience with surge brakes is with rented trailers, which are notoriously poorly maintained.

Certainly a hydraulic line is more expensive and more complex to maintain than a wire, and any significant mechanical device (such as a surge actuator) is more expensive and more likely to need maintenance than a modern electronic brake controller.

As for "idiots"... Someone needs a cargo trailer once or twice in the life of their current vehicle to move some stuff. He would rather rent a surge-braked trailer for thirty bucks each time than wire his tug, buy and install a controller, and then rent an electric braked trailer for the same price. Is he an idiot?

[Mike Magee]

Bill in Pittsburgh,

The guy at Wesco told me it was basically a matter of "pulling the hydraulic backers and putting on electric backers." Didn't sound complicated for anyone who knows what backers are (not sure I do, exactly, but I have a vague idea).

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Bill in Pittsburgh,

The guy at Wesco told me it was basically a matter of "pulling the hydraulic backers and putting on electric backers." Didn't sound complicated for anyone who knows what backers are (not sure I do, exactly, but I have a vague idea).

I think that the reference is to the backing plate. Hydraulic and electric brakes both use the same axle mount and drums. You would also change the coupler as you don't need the extendable function that actuates the master cylinder.

[Jared J]

The trailer had a manual lockout for reverse, which didn't move.

I've installed brake controllers for one time use, so yes, I would go that route.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jared J

The trailer had a manual lockout for reverse, which didn't move.

So it was both obsolete and defective or damaged... kind of like an electric brake trailer with an old timed controller and broken wire connections?

Originally Posted by Jared J

I've installed brake controllers for one time use, so yes, I would go that route.

A perfectly good choice (especially in a pre-wired truck), but does that mean someone who isn't willing to install a controller for one-time use is an idiot?

[Jared J]

Yes, the lockout was damaged, but an electric one doesn't require a lockout. If they're locked out, then they obviously don't work in reverse. That usually wouldn't be a problem, but I can think of a few times it wouldn't have been fun without them. As for obsolete, I have no idea how new equipment trailers are set up.

No, somebody isn't an idiot for not wanting to install a controller for one time use, but I stick to my statement that surge brakes are the way to go for rentals towed by idiots. Even with a brake controller, most wouldn't have them setup properly.

[Air Doug]

Originally Posted by Flharleycop

I would like to hear from LiL Snoozy owners on this one, I am looking at a LS and the brakes are an area I would like to hear about. Have any of you actual OWNERS who have towed your LS in a mountain area had any experience with the surge brakes? How did they handle etc. I am going to see what it would cost to order one with electric brakes if the opinions here would support it.

Thanks

I am reviving this thread. Today I experienced towing my 2017 Lil Snoozy down US highway 14A in Wyoming. 13 miles of 10% grade. Tow vehicle is a 2017 Toyota 4Runner.

I started in 3rd gear then down to 2nd. I felt like I was having to brake too much even in 2nd. After two miles I stopped at a brake cooling pullout for a minute or two. Then after about 3 miles I could feel the brakes feel a little mushy so I stopped at the first pullout that I could find. The 4Runner brakes were really hot, especially the front ones, and I could smell "that smell." The Lil Snoozy brake drums were cold to the touch. So we made lunch and ate it and waited about 45 minutes to let the 4Runner brakes cool. We finished the remaining 9 miles in 1st gear. This could have turned out very badly had I not noticed the subtle change in the 4Runner brakes and if its brakes were not as big as they are.

We have used the Snoozy for about 5000 miles, a fair amount in the mountains of West Virginia but nothing approaching the challenge of this grade. We have hard-stopped about 3 times and could hear the trailer brakes locking up, so I know they worked at some point in the past.

Brake fluid is full and clear. The tongue actuator is not adjustable. When doing other work under the trailer a few months ago I noticed that the rubber brake lines are bent very tightly around several sharp bends. It made me wonder at the time 1) if they were pinched and 2) how long before the rubber failed. I don't see any leaks so 2) is not an issue. I have no idea if 1) is a factor in today's event.

I will get the trailer into a shop next week and see what is wrong and report back. I just wanted to get this out on the forum in case others have had this problem and can advise what their solution was.

[Raspy]

Instead of trying to maintain a steady speed on the grade, which didn't put enough force against the trailer to apply the trailer brakes, you probably should have slowed more aggressively and then coasted, then slowed aggressively, then coasted. A process done in cycles.

This would activate the trailer brakes during each cycle of slowing down and give the TV brakes a chance to cool a bit while coasting. Dragging the TV bakes for miles is the perfect way to overheat them. Then, once they fade, there is no brakes on the TV or the trailer.

I'm not a big fan of surge brakes for the very reason you describe. You cannot activate them separately from the TV brakes and you cannot adjust how agressively they work when applied. Since you cannot activate them separately, they can never act as a backup braking system to help you with a sway problem or to stop you if the TV brakes fade. Then, while backing uphill they go on when you don't want them at all.

The simplicity of them is appealing, but the real world function leaves a lot to be desired. Electric brakes are a much better choice for a travel trailer.

Surge brakes are better for industrial trailers where they are being towed by all different trucks that are not setup for a particular trailer or don't have a brake controller. Or for boat trailers that get dipped into water a lot. It seems like Snoozy frames are really modified boat trailers. I remember the owner of Snoozy talking about this, where he gets his frames and that they are galvanized. Snoozy and boat trailers are a good match, except for the surge brakes.

[Mike Magee]

+1 to what Raspy said. I will only add that I've replaced my GX470 brakes with pads billed as better for those who tow, and drilled & slotted rotors. (I tow constantly.) They feel a little more aggressive than the OEM pads, and I experienced no problems towing through CO this month. But my Hauley does have electric brakes! https://www.amazon.com/Power-Stop-K2...70_&dpSrc=srch

[Air Doug]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Instead of trying to maintain a steady speed on the grade, which didn't put enough force against the trailer to apply the trailer brakes, you probably should have slowed more aggressively and then coasted, then slowed aggressively, then coasted. A process done in cycles.

This would activate the trailer brakes during each cycle of slowing down and give the TV brakes a chance to cool a bit while coasting. Dragging the TV bakes for miles is the perfect way to overheat them. Then, once they fade, there is no brakes on the TV or the trailer.

Raspy, thanks for the input because it reinforces my conclusion that I have a brake problem. On the grade last week I did just as you suggested in your post and should have made that clear in my first post. I pulsed the brakes repeatedly, alternating with relying on engine braking. At times I braked aggressively in hopes that it might free a stuck surge piston or some other problem, but it didn't work.

I also appreciate the comments on electric brakes. I really like the ability to adjust the brakes on the fly and test them easily. I am definitely considering converting to electric when I get home.

Doug

[rjg433]

Norm --
I recently bought a Scamp13 & my TV is a 2013 Odyssey. Do you have a transmission cooler on your Odyssey? Thoughts re it?
Richard

[David B.]

I know this thread started 5 years ago, and many have porlarized ideas about this topic. We have had our Lil Snoozy for four years and 20 thousand miles later (always over the rockies) and never have had any problems with our surge disc brakes. There is a solenoid that blocks out the brakes while backing up hills, and a manual block out as a redundancy. I never have had problems towing down steep grades, either with our 1/2 ton GMC pick-up nor with our Jeep Rubicon. I have owned a dozen trailers from flatbeds, to boxed, to car haulers and toy haulers, all with electric brakes, and I prefer our surge disc system over electric hands down.
Dave & Paula

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by David B.

I prefer our surge disc system over electric hands down.
Dave & Paula

Why is that?

[Air Doug]

Update on the surge brake issue.

I took the Snoozy to a brake shop (Woolsey's in Helena, Montana - super nice folks). The brakes were way out of adjustment. They heat up a bit now when braking on short grades. We had one panic stop and they locked up on asphalt - so they work.

I suspect that they have been out of adjustment since new based on the performance now. I just didn't notice because the 4Runner has pretty big brakes and I drive pretty conservatively. I should have learned how to test them when I got them and made sure they worked. Testing isn't too hard, You just need a big flat-blade screw driver and a jack.

I would prefer to be able to test them on the fly, like you can with electric brakes, but not enough to convert right now.

One other issue: Woolsey's agreed with me that the hydraulic line is pulled way too tightly around a 90 degree bend as it exits the main beam of the trailer frame. It will eventually fail if not relieved.

[jgilliam1955]

Originally Posted by Melanie B in NC

This is probably in the wrong Forum, but I seem to have trouble getting the system to recognize me and allow me to post. Probably is my fault. But, anyway, I have a question and maybe a Snoozy owner can help me. We are considering buying one - planning a trip to SC to actually see one of these units. But I see conflicting advice about surge vs electric brakes. I sent an email to Snoozy asking which kind they have - no answer yet (just sent it Friday evening). We have never owned an RV (ages 70 and 68), but are seriously considering trying this adventure before the rocking chairs completely claim us. I have many questions before we take the leap. So - any advice from Snoozy owners or anyone else about pros and cons of the two types of brakes.

When coming down the mountain from Boone, NC - which type is safest (the thought of this already scares me - 2000 lbs pushing my car!!!). Got to get some courage from somewhere!!!

The wait times on a new fiberglass camper is long
My Snoozy was ordered last August 2017. I haven't heard anything official yet, but others are saying 4 months was added due to having to wait for the Fiberglass body's.
Google other fiberglass trailers and call and ask the wait time? They all have 6 month's to a year. If you look for a used one, have money ready and be ready to travel. They last from a few hours to a couple of days. We can't wait to get ours.
Good luck.