Break/crack in the frame

[NedMac]

Can anyone tell me if this break in my frame is normal? If not normal, safe? I am the 3rd owner, not sure if repair work was done previously. The break/crack seems so straight it's as if it was cut. There does appear to be some welding on the underside of the break. It's on the driver's side, about 2ft in front of the axle. I cannot see if there is anything similar on the other side of the camper because of the reinforcement bars at the door. The break is NOT on the frame section that ultimately leads to the hitching apparatus.


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[honda03842]

Dawn,

Our Scamp 16 is 24 years old and we had a break on both sides. I had it repaired two years ago by running a substantial piece of 1/4 inch plate bent to shape from well beyond the break to the front of the trailer on both sides. The plate reaches about a 1/2 inch below the existing beam to allow it to be welded along the bottom edge of the Scamp's beam. As well it's about 3/4 inch from the top edge to allow it to be welded at the top edge.

I suggest running it the entire length because the additional cost is insignificant and you'll be certain it's been totally reinforced.

The Scamp comes with an L shaped piece of steel welded to the two main beams, you can see it where the trailer shell sits on the "A" shaped tongue members.

I had a triangular piece of steel welded to the front of their L shaped piece called a "fish tail". By welding the edges of the fish tail you distribute stress at that point, another potential failure point. If you want a picture I'll send you one.

We had our's done about 2 years ago and have traveled all over the place. I'm certain it's stronger than ever.

Do not travel far with that break. I'd head to a local welding shop and have it fixed. Our cost was about $200, completed in a few hours.

We did give consideration to getting a new frame but had to get it done to continue our travels so we just had it totally reinforced. After 2-3 years we have not noticed any other cracks or issues and are happy with the results.

Certainly willing to answer any questions. By the way I would inspect both sides carefully, in our case it broke through on one side and cracked on the other. I will say we drive some mighty horrid roads.

[NedMac]

Thank you so much for your reply Norm. Any pictures you could post would be very helpful. I'm having a hard time picturing your repair description, but only because I'm a newbie! I'll get under there and re-read your post as I'm looking at it The 1/4 inch plate--that's welded along the side of the beam? When you say bent, you mean bent to follow the length of the beam, not bent around the beam?

[honda03842]

I'll post a couple of pictures, bent to follow the length of the beam. It's not what we did but we did subsequently added it to go the whole distance. Our break was where the beam bends to form the A, a naturally weak area. Bends in square tubing are difficult to make with out weakening the tubing.

Pictures to come

[David B.]

Dawn, we also had breaks/cracks in our Scamp frame where the axle brackets were welded to the frame. It showed up in northern Washington, and we had a very difficult time getting a welder to do a temp. repair to get us home, as they would be responsible if something were to happen on our way back. We were able to find a muffler shop that was willing to weld on some support metal that I purchased from a steel shop down the road. After we got back to Arizona we decided to have a new axle installed, and after the old one was removed, several other breaks became visible. Sooooo glad we it done.
Dave & Paula

[NedMac]

Any breaks or welded areas appear to be on the "support beams" under the main frame (the frame that eventually forms the A). Should there be no welded areas any where? Here is another example, just under the right side of the door. It is NOT on the frame that forms the A


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[Paul O.]

Here is my attempt at forensics. Being so regular, it does look like a cut, as you noted. Try to get under and look at that piece from the other side (looking outboard). If it was cut, you will see it on the inside* as well. The cut piece is welded to the piece above it, horizontally. I suspect it was cut in order to facilitate matching the shape to the piece just above. Good welders will match the shape of the pieces carefully, to minimize the amount of welding. Welding is seldom intended to fill large gaps. If this is true (being a saw cut), it should be OK, since it is in the middle of the welded assembly, where stresses are low.

*) I say that because I think the piece is one of the rectangular tubes.

[David B.]

Dawn, I'm not sure what you are asking when you stated "should there be no welded areas anywhere".
Dave & Paula

[NedMac]

Dave, I guess I meant I saw some areas on the underside of the frame where straight pieces were welded together. I am curious how much straight lengths of the original frame are pieced together & welded as opposed to them being a continuous piece (which would make the most sense). For example, if a straight 10ft beam was needed, would a continuous piece be used or could they possibly use 2 5ft pieces, etc. Not sure anyone could even answer that!


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[Darwin Maring]

Check the frame for excessive rust.

[NedMac]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

Here is my attempt at forensics. Being so regular, it does look like a cut, as you noted. Try to get under and look at that piece from the other side (looking outboard). If it was cut, you will see it on the inside* as well. The cut piece is welded to the piece above it, horizontally. I suspect it was cut in order to facilitate matching the shape to the piece just above. Good welders will match the shape of the pieces carefully, to minimize the amount of welding. Welding is seldom intended to fill large gaps. If this is true (being a saw cut), it should be OK, since it is in the middle of the welded assembly, where stresses are low.

*) I say that because I think the piece is one of the rectangular tubes.

Paul, what you say does make sense. However I can only see the outside & underside view. The view looking out is masked by another beam. Here is a picture looking directly up at it (laying on my back)


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[honda03842]

I think it's unusual place to have a break in the frame. Paul may be right in his analysis however I would have a plate welded over the cut/break. The cost is little.

Since we had a break and like David were on the road we called a local welder who came out to our campground and welded the two breaks, one on each side, on the spot. We then towed it to his shop were he completed the job. Subsequently we have had no other problems.

You can see the plate. It was welded at the bottom and at the ends, not at the topside. Personally I would not hesitate to do more reinforcing while the jobs being done, that's why I suggested the whole length.

I should have mentioned, I painted the bottom of our trailer white and the frame has been sprayed with white Rustoleum.


I've also included a picture of the fish tail piece because I've seen a picture with breaks just in front of Scamp's reinforcement piece. The sharp edge of their reinforcement piece is a natural breaking area.

I believe the design of the frame where it is bent to form the A is poor engineering and kick myself for not observing it and having it done before fracture, I would definitely reinforce that area.

As to finding a welder, the initial guy we used did a lot of farm equipment. I'm certain it's stronger now than it ever was. Most towns have a welding shop, particularly small towns. We use a guy in our town on occasion who would do the job without hesitancy. If you have friends into restoring cars, they'll know who to use. double click to blow up pictures.

Again how old is your trailer?

[NedMac]

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

Check the frame for excessive rust.

There is definitely a lot of rust!! No holes that I can see. The plan is to scrape it all down & get the paint off to see what we're looking at


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[NedMac]

Camper is a 1992


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[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by NedMac

Dave, I guess I meant I saw some areas on the underside of the frame where straight pieces were welded together. I am curious how much straight lengths of the original frame are pieced together & welded as opposed to them being a continuous piece (which would make the most sense). For example, if a straight 10ft beam was needed, would a continuous piece be used or could they possibly use 2 5ft pieces, etc. Not sure anyone could even answer that!

Back in my VoTec Welding class days one of my Instructors said "don't be afraid to join pieces with a good weld". And of course a proper weld will be as strong or stronger than the base metals. That said, "a proper weld" is the operative term. The frame cracked on my Scamp, twice. Once just behind the front of the body on the Driver's side about 4"-6" back and then again just behind the patch they did to correct the first crack. So, my dos centavos is just go ahead and "sister" (reinforce) the whole area while you are under there doing it. My belief is that vintage Scamp 16 frames are too thin to begin with (and the axle too weak) and should be watched carefully.

[Paul O.]

Originally Posted by NedMac

Paul, what you say does make sense. However I can only see the outside & underside view. The view looking out is masked by another beam. Here is a picture looking directly up at it (laying on my back) Attachment 83453


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In this case I would try to probe through the cut with a short piece of straight wire, and/or shine a strong light down the tube. You do want to understand this for your peace of mind.

[NedMac]

Oddly enough, when I measured from the front of the beam to the break it was 45in. There appears to be a weld on the other side of the wheel as well, also 45in from the weld to the rear. Identical on the other side of the camper. Makes me think these were pieced together on purpose. Are these called support beams? Welded to the underside of the "main frame." I think I agree with you Norm, that regardless what it is I should have it reinforced. Lucky for me, I live in a farm town!


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[NedMac]

Originally Posted by Timber Wolf

Back in my VoTec Welding class days one of my Instructors said "don't be afraid to join pieces with a good weld". And of course a proper weld will be as strong or stronger than the base metals. That said, "a proper weld" is the operative term. The frame cracked on my Scamp, twice. Once just behind the front of the body on the Driver's side about 4"-6" back and then again just behind the patch they did to correct the first crack. So, my dos centavos is just go ahead and "sister" (reinforce) the whole area while you are under there doing it. My belief is that vintage Scamp 16 frames are too thin to begin with (and the axle too weak) and should be watched carefully.

Thanks for the info. I think I have talked to you before about my old axle, and am beginning to wonder if the lack of cushion in the axle is getting too rough on the frame of the camper.


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[NedMac]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I think it's unusual place to have a break in the frame. Paul may be right in his analysis however I would have a plate welded over the cut/break. The cost is little.

Since we had a break and like David were on the road we called a local welder who came out to our campground and welded the two breaks, one on each side, on the spot. We then towed it to his shop were he completed the job. Subsequently we have had no other problems.

You can see the plate. It was welded at the bottom and at the ends, not at the topside. Personally I would not hesitate to do more reinforcing while the jobs being done, that's why I suggested the whole length.

I should have mentioned, I painted the bottom of our trailer white and the frame has been sprayed with white Rustoleum.


I've also included a picture of the fish tail piece because I've seen a picture with breaks just in front of Scamp's reinforcement piece. The sharp edge of their reinforcement piece is a natural breaking area.

I believe the design of the frame where it is bent to form the A is poor engineering and kick myself for not observing it and having it done before fracture, I would definitely reinforce that area.

As to finding a welder, the initial guy we used did a lot of farm equipment. I'm certain it's stronger now than it ever was. Most towns have a welding shop, particularly small towns. We use a guy in our town on occasion who would do the job without hesitancy. If you have friends into restoring cars, they'll know who to use. double click to blow up pictures.

Again how old is your trailer?

thank you for the pictures Norm! Would I be correct in saying that your break was on the "upper" frame? The main part that then forms the A, not the "lower" beam under it? I am definitely going to go ahead an reinforce mine. I am curious if the lower frame serves a support to the main frame & my break is not as serious as if it were to be on the beam above it. Its almost as if the weld rusted through or something...

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I think it's unusual place to have a break in the frame.

Agee with Norm that is not the usual suspect spots for cracks in the frame of a Scamp. Would be concerned as to the actual reason for it. Definitely would want the whole frame carefully checked over rather than just repair the one obvious spot.

I would not think the repair to by DIY kind of thing either unless of course you happen to be a pro welder.