Buying a new Tow Vehicle - Page 6 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-23-2016, 08:25 AM   #71
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All I can say is that my F-150 with small V8 (no tow package - added 7 pin wiring and U-Haul receiver) did just fine pulling my Scamp 13 for nearly 3000 miles a couple of weeks ago. :-)

Get about 20-21 MPG when not towing, got 19.8 while towing with no problem maintaining my cruising speed - as expected.

I may consider upping to a Scamp 16 in a couple of years, won't worry about getting a new TV.
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:45 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by frank_a View Post
Very cool Lynn. Hey, I like trucks too, and am looking for a 4 door version before I retire in a couple years. In terms of a sunroof, I am working on rebuilding my old t bucket into a t tub - seating for 4, long as the two in the back are little! It will have a cloth roof, but be open at the window level. That has to get done before I retire while I still have $!

Frank
Off-Topic, but Hey Frank— Don't know where in NY you are but are you aware of the Northeast egg gathering at Schodack Island State Park on the Hudson this weekend into Tuesday or so?

2016, Sept 23-27 NORTHEAST GATHERING- SCHODACK ISLAND NYSP

This is our first such event; we are new to RVing, and they are rare in the northeast. I'd like to see a ParkLiner.

/Mr Lynn
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:05 AM   #73
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So... as I read it... Some people buy a passenger vehicle so they can tow like a truck in the slow lane. Others buy a truck so they can tow like a passenger car in the fast lane. .

The new SAE towing standards may help a little for first timers struggling with the difficult and contentious question of what do I really need to pull a trailer of an expected size and weight. A mechanically sound vehicle, truck or otherwise, towing within its rated capacity, should be able to maintain 45 going up a moderately steep grade. Truck-like, for sure, but not exactly glacial.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:36 AM   #74
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Name: Kip
Trailer: 2003 Casita 17' SD Deluxe, Towed by '09 Honda Ridgeline.
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Originally Posted by LyleB View Post
All I can say is that my F-150 with small V8 (no tow package - added 7 pin wiring and U-Haul receiver) did just fine pulling my Scamp 13 for nearly 3000 miles a couple of weeks ago. :-)

Get about 20-21 MPG when not towing, got 19.8 while towing with no problem maintaining my cruising speed - as expected.

I may consider upping to a Scamp 16 in a couple of years, won't worry about getting a new TV.
10-4 on that Lyle.
Your set up yields better mileage than my V6 Ridgeline towing 17' Casita.
K
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:09 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Kip in Ga. View Post
Recon I'm from the school of better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

I personally think that a vehicle tow rating should be based on it's ability to maintain Posted speed limits. Up steep inclines as well as on flat roads.
Many folks refrain from driving the posted speed limit while towing, ST tires even suggest a 60 mph maximum.
I would consider I-24 at Monteagle TN to be a reasonable test for a tow vehicle. Our 4CYL TV with our Scamp13 attached has crossed there many times at speed. It also merges comfortably into highway traffic.
The semi-trucks of course can't even come close to the "ability to maintain posted speed limits" over Monteagle. Many reduced to < 20MPH on the incline.
I reckon that my combo has a better HP/WT ratio than the average fullsized truck with a stick built trailer, especially considering the number of them which are fifthwheels or toy haulers.

The typical fiberglass trailer is still a 13footer weighing less than 2000 pounds (many less than 1500). This genre defies convention, and does so on purpose. The new small 4CYL SUV which is used to tow this trailer today is more capable than the small cars or even some light trucks for which these trailers were designed several decades ago, and they typically have >double the HP and better brakes.(see photo below)
Of course the TV should be up to the task at hand, which was the point of small fiberglass trailers to begin with... to make a travel trailer to fit the TV.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:52 AM   #76
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I would consider I-24 at Monteagle TN to be a reasonable test for a tow vehicle. .
The good news for the consumer is that the days when we had to find a location that we commonly tow to put our vehicles to the ultimate tow test to see if they were up to the task, is a thing of the past.

The majority of auto manufactures (including Ford) are now putting all their passenger vehicles, SUV's. Cross Overs and Light trucks that they are putting a tow rating capacity on through the SAE J2807

Some believe the test only applies to pick up trucks but that is not correct.

No more confusion as to what test the auto manufacture put the vehicle through in helping them determine the towing capacity they have put on it.

You at least now know that they are all doing the same test in the same fashion.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:33 PM   #77
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I have a really simple test for a TV:

Will it pull the trailer up my driveway?

Sounds silly, but trust me, my driveway rises 40' in 150' of run, which works out to a 25% grade. It's paved, but traction can still be an issue. I've got a limited slip differential in the TV, and some days wish I had AWD or 4WD.

The first time I pulled the trailer back home after a brief test drive this year I didn't hit the bottom of the driveway at the usual 15 MPH. Nearly didn't make it to the top. I was at full throttle at about 5 MPH wondering if the torque converter was going to flash before I got to the parking pad.

It's a big deal to be up around 2500 RPM in first when I hit the hill - then I have all 285 lb-ft of torque available.

A smaller engine would be fine as long as it had granny gearing in first or a good, slushy torque converter.

Yes, the ability to maintain highway speeds is nice, and it does that very well too, but there are days I'm really glad it has plenty of torque and the hot rod/tow package final drive ratio.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:40 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post

The majority of auto manufactures (including Ford) are now putting all their passenger vehicles, SUV's. Cross Overs and Light trucks that they are putting a tow rating capacity on through the SAE J2807

No more confusion as to what test the auto manufacture put the vehicle through in helping them determine the towing capacity they have put on it.
Which makes me wonder why so many people worry about towing near the stated capacity of their vehicle. If your car tows 1500 (and assuming you haven't overloaded the car) and the trailer is just under 1500, where is the problem? Don't you think a safety margin is already built into the towing capacity?
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:28 PM   #79
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Floyd,

I run the posted speed, but.no faster than 57 intentionly.

I was thinking of a section of road leading up to Cherokee NC. An 8 % grade about 3 miles in length, pretty sure a posted limit of 55 mph. That particular one is 4 lane, but even then causes problems when one glacier is attempting to pass another.

There is a 2 lane road going to Cloudland Canyon state park with posted limits of 45, as I recall. It's very
Steep with sharp switchbacks.
Actually I don't recall serious steep inclines with a POSTED limit over 55. Maybe i've just been lucky.

Folks wishing to push the envelope on how little power they will need under any circumstances are braver than I am.

K
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:20 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Kip in Ga. View Post
Floyd,

I run the posted speed, but.no faster than 57 intentionly.

I was thinking of a section of road leading up to Cherokee NC. An 8 % grade about 3 miles in length, pretty sure a posted limit of 55 mph. That particular one is 4 lane, but even then causes problems when one glacier is attempting to pass another.

There is a 2 lane road going to Cloudland Canyon state park with posted limits of 45, as I recall. It's very
Steep with sharp switchbacks.
Actually I don't recall serious steep inclines with a POSTED limit over 55. Maybe i've just been lucky.

Folks wishing to push the envelope on how little power they will need under any circumstances are braver than I am.

K
All true perhaps, but having missed my point, I'm sure you can forgive the fact that I have missed yours!
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:48 PM   #81
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The Europeans have a similar rating to the SAE J2807 in their standards and many if not most actually bring their test vehicles over here to do the testing.
Here is a link to a fairly good article:

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

The Davis Dan climb is a relentless climb of 3000 feet in 11.4 miles. This is to be on a day at least 100*F with the A/C on full blast
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:37 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Bobbie Mayer View Post
Which makes me wonder why so many people worry about towing near the stated capacity of their vehicle. If your car tows 1500 (and assuming you haven't overloaded the car) and the trailer is just under 1500, where is the problem? Don't you think a safety margin is already built into the towing capacity?
I suspect the problem is that very few of our trailers are in fact under 1500lbs loaded.


EDIT TO ADD: I BTW am not one to suggest the big safety margin is in fact required. I simple make sure I know what the trailer I am pulling weighs fully loaded and what I am pulling it with is rated to do handle it. That is not to say though that I know well what it feels like to pull a trailer that is at or near the vehicles max capacity and what it feels like when its not. The later IMO always feels like a better tow.
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:04 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
I suspect the problem is that very few of our trailers are in fact under 1500lbs loaded.


EDIT TO ADD: I BTW am not one to suggest the big safety margin is in fact required. I simple make sure I know what the trailer I am pulling weighs fully loaded and what I am pulling it with is rated to do handle it. That is not to say though that I know well what it feels like to pull a trailer that is at or near the vehicles max capacity and what it feels like when its not. The later IMO always feels like a better tow.
It is way more than common here to conflate rating with capacity.
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:54 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
It is way more than common here to conflate rating with capacity.
Perhaps but I do not think the two are actually something one can separate out when considering a tow vehicle.

My current truck is a fine example. When I attach the trailer, with two passengers, the dog and just a few items in the back its at its max Payload rating. If I where to fill it to its space capacity with 4 passengers and fill up the bed to capacity with stuff it would be well over its Payload rating and its GCVWR but still be 1000lbs under its GTWR.

When looking at a vehicle for towing you need to look at the manufactures max tow rating (Gross trailer weight rating), as well as the Payload (weight of passengers, cargo & trailers tongue), Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) as well as the Gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCVWR).

With a bit of math using your actual trailer weights you will be able to calculate its true carrying capacity in regards to trailer weights and its people and cargo capacity as well.

Currently shopping for a new tow vehicle and the results of the math can be a bit surprising/shocking and may explain why some folks suggest you are simple better off going with a vehicle that is max tow rated much higher than what you will be using it for and save yourself the headache of doing the math &/or being disappointed in the towing experience.

With a standardized tow test, you no longer need to trust the guy next door or some stranger on the internet that the vehicle you are considering buying will tow just fine. While it may work just fine for them they may not be towing on the same roads, mountain passes or at the same speeds you want to
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