Car tires for a Scamp....??? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BCDave View Post
I agree completely. One should NEVER try to replace tires that are only good for 65 mph and which disintegrate regularly anyway (such as trailer tires) with ones like car tires that are reliable, long-lasting and which have less rolling resistance. After all, we would not want to be safe or get good mpg, would we?

If I could find a dealer who would install light truck tires on my trailer, I'd do it in an instant. I have run both in the past on my older trailer. The LT tires lasted 10 years, never had a flat and pulled a LOT easier, getting much better mpg than the ST (Trailer-rated) tires which replaced them, which seemed to be good for about 1,000 miles or so before beginning the series of massive damaging blow-outs again.
Dave wasnt it you who last week pointed out if one pushes on their car they will see the car move sideways and how important it was to properly inflate your trailer tires to stop the side to side movement of the sidewalls which can contribute to sway??

As a side note to that my understanding is that ST tires are of a heavier construction so as to reduce the side to side movement as well. Thus reducing sway.

I got well over 1000 miles of life out of the last set of ST tires on my trailer - closer to 8000. The life on ST tires has more to do with age than miles - the closer to 4 years of age they get the higher the likelihood of failure. Or at least that's been my experience which according the fellow at the tire shop I purchased my last tires at is the norm and to be expected. The tread on the tires may look really good at 4 years of age but they tend to rot from the inside out (due to the amount of time trailers sit vs moving) which you will not know about until they fail on a dark road in the middle of know where.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:13 AM   #16
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Name: frank
Trailer: Scamp 13
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According to Scamp the 13 foot trailer is safe for passenger tires, we used them and have driven over 1000 miles without issues.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:25 AM   #17
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Hi Frank, welcome to FiberglassRV. I'm not joining this discussion, but wanted to welcome you to the forum.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:18 PM   #18
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Thank you donna, there is a lot of good information on the Scamp.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Dave wasnt it you who last week pointed out if one pushes on their car they will see the car move sideways and how important it was to properly inflate your trailer tires to stop the side to side movement of the sidewalls which can contribute to sway??

As a side note to that my understanding is that ST tires are of a heavier construction so as to reduce the side to side movement as well. Thus reducing sway.

I got well over 1000 miles of life out of the last set of ST tires on my trailer - closer to 8000. The life on ST tires has more to do with age than miles - the closer to 4 years of age they get the higher the likelihood of failure. Or at least that's been my experience which according the fellow at the tire shop I purchased my last tires at is the norm and to be expected. The tread on the tires may look really good at 4 years of age but they tend to rot from the inside out (due to the amount of time trailers sit vs moving) which you will not know about until they fail on a dark road in the middle of know where.
Sidewall stiffness is not directly a function of tire type, I put a set of Yokahama DOT track tires (P-metrics) on my daughter's Festiva, She ran over something leaving a dime sized whole in one of the rear tires,she did not know it was flat and drove home from school. The tire stayed on the rim and barely appeared low. Squishy sidewalls are pretty much a thing of the past, especially in good quality performance street tires.

Of course, tire pressure affects Squishiness as well, I'm still using BFG Radial T/As on my Ranger(good, cheap, tire but ancient tech) I can actually feel a pressure loss of 5-7 pounds in a single tire when cornering.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:42 PM   #20
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Trailer: 1976 Scamp 13'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Sidewall stiffness is not directly a function of tire type, I put a set of Yokahama DOT track tires (P-metrics) on my daughter's Festiva, She ran over something leaving a dime sized whole in one of the rear tires,she did not know it was flat and drove home from school. The tire stayed on the rim and barely appeared low. Squishy sidewalls are pretty much a thing of the past, especially in good quality performance street tires.
I don't know..

A Scamp 13 might just weigh more than that Festiva.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 841K9 View Post
I don't know..

A Scamp 13 might just weigh more than that Festiva.
While that is unlikely, the Festiva did have FOUR tires. It came with 12" tires and I had to have 13" wheels custom made for it.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:48 PM   #22
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Yes, it was me talking about sidewall flex. Same thing applies. A Light TRUCK (LT) tire may be up to an 8 ply, designed to be run at 65 or more PSI and to run at a higher speed than the (unrated) trailer tires. Try flexing the sidewalls by pushing sideways on a vehicle with THOSE on.

Many of our trailers came with bias-ply tires on from the factory, which had quite stiff sidewalls in relation to the next generation tires (first gen Radials) that replaced them. The best towing and handling I ever experienced involved radials on the tug and bias-ply on the trailer. Admittedly - only single-axle trailers - never had a tandem with bias-plies on it.

Radials have (in general) very stiff TREAD and softer sidewalls than bias ply tires.

Softer sidewalls will (in all likelihood) increase sway tendencies. Stiffer sidewalls (equals harsher ride) tend to reduce sway.

However ST (trailer-rated) tires just don't seem to have as stiff a sidewall as a LT rated tire.

I don't consider 4 years or 1,000 miles to be acceptable life. It sorta reminds me of the "no-name used car lot" with their famous "50/50 warranty". 50 Seconds or 50 feet, whichever comes first!
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:13 PM   #23
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Tires once more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
I am thinking about putting a set of (Michelin) car tires on my 13' Scamp..

Anyone ever heard of car tires for a Scamp? Every tried it?
ie: ST205r14C > trailer tires ST trailer, 205 width / profile size, r radial, 14 diameter at rim, C load range; This size example ranges (B 1500 lbs, C 1760 lbs, D 1900 lbs)
> MTO, and Tire manufacturer reduce ability for Truck and Car tires when on a trailer due to suspension differences of 10%; "they are not designed to take the punishment of trailer suspensions" in fact told they would not last as long? "They did say all tires have a stale date of 5 years though generally over looked, this is even more important in special duty tires like snow tires"

We can get trailer radials and the new r radial tires ride very well and last longer while made to do the job. When it comes to speed do not feel it is safe to go over 65 mph / 104 kmh in fact feel that a limit of 55 mph / 88 kmh is more reasonable.

At the advice of the experts we replaced new car tires on our trailer last year for new trailer tires.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:19 PM   #24
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Name: Rene
Trailer: Bigfoot 2500 truck camper
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Originally Posted by Borden View Post


ie: ST205r14C > trailer tires ST trailer, 205 width / profile size, r radial, 14 diameter at rim, C load range; This size example ranges (B 1500 lbs, C 1760 lbs, D 1900 lbs)
> MTO, and Tire manufacturer reduce ability for Truck and Car tires when on a trailer due to suspension differences of 10%; "they are not designed to take the punishment of trailer suspensions" in fact told they would not last as long? "They did say all tires have a stale date of 5 years though generally over looked, this is even more important in special duty tires like snow tires"

We can get trailer radials and the new r radial tires ride very well and last longer while made to do the job. When it comes to speed do not feel it is safe to go over 65 mph / 104 kmh in fact feel that a limit of 55 mph / 88 kmh is more reasonable.

At the advice of the experts we replaced new car tires on our trailer last year for new trailer tires.
I have the same trailer and have ST205r14's as well. With all the extra weight of the 1700 there is no way I would want to run car tires. I would run Light Truck tires if I had 15" rims but I do not.
If I had a 13' footer I can see running car tires if I had a good set kicking
around going unused. Buying car tires new? They would need to be a screaming deal. I like the higher load capacity, 50PSI air pressure and stiffer sidewalls of the trailer tires.
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCDave View Post
Yes, it was me talking about sidewall flex. Same thing applies. A Light TRUCK (LT) tire may be up to an 8 ply, designed to be run at 65 or more PSI and to run at a higher speed than the (unrated) trailer tires. Try flexing the sidewalls by pushing sideways on a vehicle with THOSE on.

Many of our trailers came with bias-ply tires on from the factory, which had quite stiff sidewalls in relation to the next generation tires (first gen Radials) that replaced them. The best towing and handling I ever experienced involved radials on the tug and bias-ply on the trailer. Admittedly - only single-axle trailers - never had a tandem with bias-plies on it.

Radials have (in general) very stiff TREAD and softer sidewalls than bias ply tires.

Softer sidewalls will (in all likelihood) increase sway tendencies. Stiffer sidewalls (equals harsher ride) tend to reduce sway.

However ST (trailer-rated) tires just don't seem to have as stiff a sidewall as a LT rated tire.

I don't consider 4 years or 1,000 miles to be acceptable life. It sorta reminds me of the "no-name used car lot" with their famous "50/50 warranty". 50 Seconds or 50 feet, whichever comes first!
A year of so after I first got my trailer I purchased a set of bias ply trailer tires (which it had on it when I got it) and I got about 3 years 9 months out of them - they looked great but decided it was time to start coming apart at the seams as luck would have it while I was in the middle on no where! I replaced with radial trailer tires and the only difference I have noticed between the bias plys and the radials is the trailer seems to ride a bit smoother on rough roads - no indication that the radials are inclined to cause more sway or at least I havent had the misfortune of experiencing that yet.... although I have put about 1700 miles so far on the radials.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:11 AM   #26
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Trailer: Scamp 16
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I don't have any real tire knowledge other than what we have experienced.

We've used 13" Goodyear Marathon ST tires on our Sunline, Casita and Scamp. The set on the Scamp is our second set. The first set used on the Sunline and Casita were on for four years and during that period we covered some 20,000 miles without any issues.

So far we have 8,000 miles on the set on the set on the Scamp without issue. We keep them infalated to pressures near their maximum and similarly our pressures on the tow vehicle are higher near maximum, particularly the rears. I do believe stiff sidewalls are inportant because sway is 'side motion'.

Our experience with LT truck tires, specifically Michelins, is poor. We had very expensive Michelin truck tires on our motorhome, we were never over weight, regular checked pressure and yet had 5 tire blowouts over an 8 year period. I admit the motorhome experience may not carry over to trailers.

Our experience is that ST tires do work when properly inflated and monitored. Are passenger tires ot LT tires a reasonable alternative? I don't know but I plan to stick with what we have until ST's stop working for us. In 4 years we will probably have 40,000 towing miles on them, assuming the tread lasts that long.

Safe travels
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:59 PM   #27
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I'm with Norm on this one. I replace the original tires after 5 years and had over 20,000 miles on them. The "new" ST tires are "C" rather that "B" load rated. They now have over 20,000 miles on them. I have always kept them inflated at or near maximum sidewall pressure (maximum pressure as indicated on the sidewalls). They've preformed great, no sway, minimum bouncing. I had a utility trailer with passenger car tires and that sucker bounced all over the place. You could see the sidewalls flexing as it bounced.

I did see a 16' Scamp that blew out a tire, it had been under inflated and got hot and melted before it blew. You could see the rubber had gotten hot enough to deform.
ST tires and full inflation for me.

You can take you chances at second guessing the engineers if you like, but.....
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #28
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Trailer: scamp 13
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ok,,,my take.
i am 61 years old. and have started ,run and sold two succesfull trucking companies.

that doesn't make me an expert , just makes me think i am.

trailer tires ,(at least when they were conceived) were designed to limit(that is , not add to) sway, carry a load, wear a long time, and help stop the trailer if equiped with brakes.

drive and steer tires have a completely different job. (not counting rear tires on a front drive car,,,basicle trailers then huh?)

i personaly have never had a blow out in a trailer tire.
but have seen lots of them. most every one is caused by debries puncture,or faulty maintainance. (bad tire pressure, failure to inspect.)

considering the weight of our trailers, load isn't really that big of a factor , assuming your not overloaded, or buying tires that are under rated.

so it comes down to four factors as i see it.
1. puncture. not much you can do about that execpt have a jack and a lug wrench. and don't drive with your wheels in the gutter. thats where all the nails live.
2. inflation. buy a good,,(not cheapo) tire preasure gauge and use it like you enjoy it.
3. inspection. your down there checking the preasure anyway....look at the tire, feel the tire,,,become one with the tire grasshopper.
4. excessive speed. your in your camper,,,not the daytona 500 slow down speedball tucker.
seriously your on vacation,,,whats your hurry?on the freeway 60 is plenty.
but i always look for two lane blacktop, i see so many wonderful things at 55, and its easy to stop and take pictures.

wow,,,no super secret technology? nope, just take care of your tires, buy good tires, and always watch out for the other guy.
as red green says..."we're all in this together...i'm pullin for ya"
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