Decent tow vehicle...

[honda03842]

Sometimes there's not much you can do about the wind particularly in an unloaded semi except not drive. In NM this year they simply closed the Interstate to all traffic during high winds. There were two days where we choose not to drive during our trip.

Of course in Newfoundland there's the section of the highway called Wreckhouse named for a locomotive blown off the track. I have personally seen two successive semis overturned there.

We simply make the safe choice.

[Carol H]

LOL Dave, the problem was as you know I am a BC girl so I am use to seeing trees swaying along the side of the roads to know its windy .... in that situation/location it was a big 4 lane highway with nothing green for miles on either side to give you an sense that it was windy....

The other funny thing that happened on that trip was while heading down the I5 I noted I was only getting about 14 mpg (on a stretch of highway I normally get about 26) started cursing my auto mechanic as the car had just gotten a tune up.... was worried I was going to have to start looking for the next Subaru dealer to figure out what the problem was. Stopped for gas and got out of the car and realized I was towing in a serious head wind.....

My point being that I suspect those who think that the Subaru is adversisly impacted by wind while towing might be really suprised if they were ever to actually tow with one to realize how incorrect that assumption is. Suspect the all wheel drive is what makes it a lot more stable than what some apparently think it is. Yup the MPG is impacted by head winds but I know from experience in actual driving them that big pickem up trucks are as well .... only worse.

[Bobbie Mayer]

I towed my Campster with my Forester into the wind one weekend...awful experience. The two hour trip took nearly three hours. But I don't know that it would have been better with any other vehicle. The Campster isn't Much taller than the Forester, anyway. It's trailer in the wind that is the issue. And I did get there safely, just more tired than usual.

[Auchtober]

On my 'maiden voyage' (aside from pulling the trillium home!) to Utah, I ran into 40mph sustained winds, with gusts up to 80mph. I'm from the Pacific NW, and was in the middle of the high desert, so there were no tell-tale trees to check for wind!!

Pulling with a 2000 Nissan Pathfinder, I did feel the trailer - but mostly the gusts! I felt it more in my pocketbook, as I literally watched the fuel gauge drop 1/4 tank in 50 miles. I'm fairly sure that bucking that kind of headwind would have sucked up my fuel anyway. Was fairly slow going as well but again I don't think I attribute that strictly to the trailer.

Long story short, 2000 Nissan Pathfinder (yes, that IS the year people complained of them being underpowered), automatic transmission and 1979 Trillium and we did just fine!

~~kate

[honda03842]

One of the nice aspects of the Maritimes Rally is all the Bolers and particularly how people have customized them. These are really old trailers and a testament to the strength of fiberglass trailers and in some measure their owners. Show and Tell Saturday was really fun.

[rgrugg]

FWIW... we have towed our Egg Camper with our minivan (V6) and it did a good job. We prefer to tow with our Chevy 1500 for the much more comfortable seats and, even with the V8 in the Chevy, we get better mpg (up to 17 mpg). The V8 will drop to being a V4 when conditions are right (even towing). There are zillions (well maybe not quite zillions) of vehicles that will do a good job for you.

[melissab]

Floyd, according to Edmunds the tow capacity on the 2009 4 cyl Escape is only 1500 lbs " When adequately equipped, which may require engine and/or other drivetrain upgrades". Does that mean there is no way to achieve a higher rating with the 4 cyl?

Melissa

Originally Posted by floyd

If your Boler is a 13, you might consider a good used 2006 or newer Ford Escape 4Cyl. A 2009 or newer would be even better with it's improved automatic and larger 170HP 4Cyl engine. This choice would yield GREAT reliability and fuel economy, along with good utility and comfort.

We often tow our 13 deluxe Scamp with our 2008 Escape 4CYL 5spd manual.
We are well satisfied with it's performance and price... and the fuel economy when towing is amazing.

[Auchtober]

<-------- coffee STOP!

Originally Posted by bcdave

sorry carol- i apologize in advance for my incredible lack of ability to resist but: The wind was strong enough to blow a semi around and you were driving one of those australian suvs called a super-roo, towing a fiberglass trailer and you hadn't noticed the wind?

Methinks a bit more coffee may have been in order to acquire some alertness!

[Carol H]

LOL actually too much coffee may have attributed to my condition....... a big coffee mug and many miles to travel are not always a good thing. ;-))

[avfn]

I tow with a 4cyl honda element and it does just FINE! 1500 towing capacity. I do plan however on adding a transmission cooler this summer for when I actually have to tow in warmer weather. just got the camper in november so it was cooler weather at the time.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by melissab

Floyd, according to Edmunds the tow capacity on the 2009 4 cyl Escape is only 1500 lbs " When adequately equipped, which may require engine and/or other drivetrain upgrades". Does that mean there is no way to achieve a higher rating with the 4 cyl?

Melissa

Actually I think you are referring to "rating" not "capacity", there is no way to achieve a higher rating with the 4CYL.

The Escape 4CYL automatic is identical in construction to the 6Cyl in every respect except for the engine itself. Aftermarket components such as electric brake controller, trailer light interface, and a ClassIII hitch will improve tow capacity(not rating). 170HP is more than adequate for a 13ft fiberglass trailer.
Ford requires the 6Cyl with a factory tow package for a tow rating of 3500# which can't be achieved without the aftermarket addition of an electric brake controller. That tow rating is equal to the vehicle weight with 6Cyl Automatic and 4WD.

The 6Cyl would be a great choice for any Scamp 13... or even 16 (or similar sized SOB ) However, though the mileage will be good, it won't match the mileage of the 4CYL when properly equipped/driven,towing a 13 Scamp. [Mileage being a germane part of the original inquiry.]

If you can afford it... The 2013 Escape has dropped the V6 and will offer the Ecoboost 4CYL(with tow package) with a tow Rating of 3500#. Lots more power, much higher rating. About the same capacity.
[It's only rated 2000# without the tow package.]
The manual transmission will no longer be available in the Escape.

[melissab]

No more Escape manual tranny.....GRRRRRRR.......... why do car companies keep doing this?? I saw where the VW Tiguan TDI is supposedly coming to the U.S. in 2015 with an optional manual. Gets something like 47 mpg. Keeping a lookout for that one!

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by melissab

No more Escape manual tranny.....GRRRRRRR.......... why do car companies keep doing this??........

Having worked in the business for 27 years, the answer is that sales have to outweigh engineering and tooling costs. Manual transmission sales are paltry.

[melissab]

Makes it challenging to teach my daughter to drive a stick when I cant find one, lol. My first car (little pickup actually Dodge D-50) had a 5 spd. Folks figured so few teens could drive a stick even back then (1986) that nobody would ask to drive/borrow my vehicle. It worked! Also, being such a tiny truck seat couldnt get into too much trouble LOL.

[Thomas G.]

I drove manual transmissions for years and liked them. I finally quit when I had to commute in stop and go traffic. The new auto transmissions are getting very efficient, so the pull of a manual continues to diminish.

But back to the original question - buy a new Escape and keep my pension solvent.

[gmw photos]

First of all, congrats on getting a camper ! Sounds like you all are in for some serious fun.
Regarding tow vehicle, you said "limited only by budget".

So:

how much is the budget ?

what kind of gas mileage do you hope to get towing ( be reasonable ) ?

what gas mileage do you want for the non towing miles driven ?

My personal choice for my smallish ( 3780 pound ) boxy camper ( funfinder, 19' ) is a Nissan Frontier truck. V6, crew cab, 4WD, six speed manual trans.
In my case, I get 19-23 mpg non towing, and my towing avg is right at 13 mpg. My thoughts are that it makes a great TV for camper like mine (and therefore for most all the FB campers ), because it's a sturdy truck, that has enough weight ( 4900 pounds ) to safely tow. The 4WD works exceptionally well if you need that for snow or other duty where 4WD is desirable.

Toyota makes a similar truck ( Tacoma ). If you are buying used, and want something a slight bit smaller then there are plenty of Rangers around, and you could even consider a used Colorado/Canyon if you are a GM fan.

When buying used, I would certainly do the homework and look over things like the JD Powers reports to get an idea of what the reliability is of the different vehicles you would consider.

You did not mention diesel or gas, but if you are considering diesel, you REALLY need to do your homework. My recco is for anybody that is a first time diesel purchaser, they need to do some serious research on it beforehand. They are a whole different animal. We also have a Ford diesel pickup ( as well as a Ford diesel tractor ), so I can go on endlessly about owning/operating/maintaining them.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

Having worked in the business for 27 years, the answer is that sales have to outweigh engineering and tooling costs. Manual transmission sales are paltry.

Of course if nothing but automatics are offered, nothing but automatics will be sold, Proving that nobody wants a manual transmission.
I'm sure everybody wants only one choice of "graytan" for the interior.
Everybody wants ony trucks which are too large for the road, garage, or parking spaces.
Have you seen the "options" lists for new cars? .....OF COURSE NOT... THERE AIN"T ANY!
Your argument fails when you consider the world sourcing of components and the 87 percent manual transmission sales rate in Europe.

Demographics and regulations are the culprits...
Sell to the middle 40%
Another 15% will buy a product they hate and the rest can go elswhere, except when all companies use the same approach...

There is no elsewhere!

That leaves 60% paying for products they don't want, out of necessity.
You don't take a man's freedom by force anymore, you take it by narrowing his options.

I sat for an hour at a tollway Oasis the other day watching traffic... all I saw passing under in either direction was a steady stream of mediocrity and abject conformity, looking more and more like the Eastern Europe of the seventies. Everybody there wanted a Trabant,and the few who got them were ecstatic!(yeah right)

[gmw photos]

Yes, this whole automatic vs manual trans is a thorn in my side too. When I bought my Frontier in 2006, one of the criteria was "6 speed manual". But I also wanted a crew cab ( four door ) with a 4.0 V6. Man.....I had a heck of a time finding one with a manual tranny. It seems that 90% of the crew cabs that year were produced with auto trans. I finally found this truck ( correct color and all options ) at a dealer 500 miles away.

At the time you could also buy the Taco with a six speed manual in a crew cab. If I am not mistaken though, by model year 2011, Toyota had stopped putting the 6 speed manual in them, and in 2012, same with Nissan.
Honestly, if I could buy a Titan with a manual behind that sweet 5.6 V8, I'd do it. No such offer though.

Yes, modern automatics are indeed very well behaved and very stout as a rule. But still, I prefer to drive a manual.
Looks like I may be keeping the '06 for quite some time.......

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by floyd

Of course if nothing but automatics are offered, nothing but automatics will be sold, Proving that nobody wants a manual transmission.
I'm sure everybody wants only one choice of "graytan" for the interior.
Everybody wants ony trucks which are too large for the road, garage, or parking spaces.
Have you seen the "options" lists for new cars? .....OF COURSE NOT... THERE AIN"T ANY!
Your argument fails when you consider the world sourcing of components and the 87 percent manual transmission sales rate in Europe.

Demographics and regulations are the culprits...
Sell to the middle 40%
Another 15% will buy a product they hate and the rest can go elswhere, except when all companies use the same approach...

There is no elsewhere!

That leaves 60% paying for products they don't want, out of necessity.
You don't take a man's freedom by force anymore, you take it by narrowing his options.

I sat for an hour at a tollway Oasis the other day watching traffic... all I saw passing under in either direction was a steady stream of mediocrity and abject conformity, looking more and more like the Eastern Europe of the seventies. Everybody there wanted a Trabant,and the few who got them were ecstatic!(yeah right)

Ok, it sounds like you are an expert.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

Ok, it sounds like you are an expert.

"X" is a mathematical term meaning "unknown"
"Spurt" is a drip of water under pressure...
Therefore an Expert is an unknown drip under pressure...
Yup, your about right.

No really, I'm just old enough to remember things like choice and freedom.
Nowadays... you can do anything you want ... as long as it's mandatory!
Have you ever heard of DSO?
There was a time when you could order a new car any way you wanted it, like in primer with no engine for example.
You could spec a new car or light truck from a list of options. My 1980 Econoline was ordered with such detailed choices as door positioners, delete the door switches, and knit vinyl captains chairs.
When I bought my 2008 Escape I couldn't get leather seating because I wanted a manual transmission... go figger.
"Packages" are to save work for salesmen,and reduce inventory while pushing lot cars. Nobody "orders" a new car anymore,what's the point?...
They "locate" one.
Sales is sales today, shoes or trucks... it's all the same.
For a while now "Have it your way" has meant going to "Burger King"