Delica or Outback???

[Carol H]

Subaru actually only started selling receivers pre installed by them a couple of years ago although all the Outbacks came pre wired long before that. The dealer would just send you to the local hitch shop to have the hitch installed. So yes you can pick up a higher rated hitch and receiver pretty well anywhere. Suspect Subaru only offer the lighter weight ones from the factory due to a demand/economics issue, good bet there are far more buyers only wanted a hitch to pull their garden trailer than a travel trailer.

I am not so sure that the stiffer springs would change anything or thats the issue as to why Subaru doesnt want more than 200lbs on the tongue. The Outback as it is now doesnt do a noticeable sag even with more than the 200lb limit attached to it.

re the Oxygen weight on the weight list - yes it had a shower (mid trailer) every one I have seen so far does (3 so far). The trailers equipment looked pretty well the same as the others as well. It would be a good bet his tanks where empty when weighed as he camped with us at a full service campground the night prior & the trailers were weighed as soon as we arrived at the trailer meet which also had services. Would not make a lot of sense for him to have towed the six hour drive to the meet with water in his holding tanks. The reason the one you saw the ad for stated a much lower weight is simple. Its the same old story - not a lot of people have actually ever really weighed their trailers so the weight stated in ads is more often than not *way* to low - very common to be 600-700lbs over dry weights listed on paper work for the trailer. That's the reason the weight thread that Frederick has set up with all the trailer weights he has taken at meets and posted is IMHO the **best** thread this forum has. Would believe the weights on Frederick s list long before I would believed a sales ad.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

I'm in Cabo,Mexico till the end of Feb.

Darn Daniel did you take the trailer? If you did when you return would you share which crossing you used and how it went? & anything else you would do different next trip. Getting conflicting suggestions on that front.

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Re the RH drive Delcia - The Insurance Corp of BC did a study on RH drive vehicles due to their ever increasing nubmers in the province. The ICBC study found they have a 40% higher accident rate.

Yeah, about the RHD, I know it's not ideal, especially in traffic/city. I got quite comfortable driving vans on the other side, spent about a month in each of NZ/OZ in a Previa type van. But that was RHD in RHD countries. And towing is another matter in addition. Seems there are a few very rare LHD Delicas in CA, either a rare import from the right country or a conversion. There are plenty LHD delicas sold in various countries (Central/South America, continental Europe?), but I think the 4wd was all but exclusive to RHD markets (Asia/Australia I think). But the right person with right parts from both can make a LHD 4wd, but I bet those go for a pretty penny.

Originally Posted by Carol H

You will also need to look for an Outback that is 06 or newer to get the higher tow rate - prior to that they were only rated at 2000lbs. Regardless what ever you tow will need brakes if over 1000lbs.

I think the change was in 05? But I'm not sure what they changed, the chassis is more or less the same from 03-09 from what I read. So it may have been changes that affect reliability of the engine/driveline more than the ability to safely tow that capacity due to structural improvements, suspension/control issues. Still trying to get more info on that. Did the rating change in other countries at that same time?
[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Carol H

A lot of us Canucks head south for our used cars as the cost differences can be big. Even if you dont still have a US mailing address the process is pretty simple on a used car to import providing its on the list of allowed vehicles. There was a big price difference on new Outbacks in Canada vs the US up until about 3-4 years ago - difference in 07 was about $9,000. So the used ones in the US should be cheaper.

Yep, I still have a California legal residence, but want to move that to WA. Have a few friends there, so that should be doable. Will certainly be looking down there if I go with an Outback.

Originally Posted by Carol H

Rebecca add 600-700lbs to any manufactures dry weight to come up with a realistic weight. Although Subaru says its ok to tow with a 8%-11% tongue weight the reality is that you are much better off/safer under all tow conditions with a tongue weight of at least 10% of the trailers total weight- which in my trailers situation would be 250lbs - which is over Subaru's tongue specs. I work hard at keeping my trailers total weight down - in order to keep it remotely close to Subaru's specs. You can add weight to the rear to get the tongue weight down but the more you go below 10% the higher your chances of having yourself a big scary sway problem. I personally would not go there! You would be as heading for a *Big* white knuckle tow experience that the OP has experienced with his current tow and why they are looking to upgrade their tow for their 13' trailer.

As mentioned if I was starting out from scratch and needed to buy a tug and a trailer and knew ahead of time I wanted a 16' I would not choose the Outback despite how much I love them. Great tug for a 13' not so great for a 16' regardless of it being a 4 cyl or a 6 cyl as they both only have a 200lb tongue rating.

Let's just say, in theory, if the car was rated for 300lbs tongue weight would you be happy with it and a 16 footer? Or it >feels< like it can't handle more when you're towing? Is it a ratings/compliance issue? Which I do not mean to undermine, just trying to understand the matter.

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Subaru actually only started selling receivers pre installed by them a couple of years ago although all the Outbacks came pre wired long before that. The dealer would just send you to the local hitch shop to have the hitch installed. So yes you can pick up a higher rated hitch and receiver pretty well anywhere. Suspect Subaru only offer the lighter weight ones from the factory due to a demand/economics issue, good bet there are far more buyers only wanted a hitch to pull their garden trailer than a travel trailer.

I am not so sure that the stiffer springs would change anything or thats the issue Subaru why doesnt want more than 200lbs on the tongue. The Outback as it is now doesnt do a noticeable sag even with more than the 200lb limit attached to it.

Well, if I can safely, reliably tow a 16' with an outback, it seems like the most practical, best packaged option of me. IF. I'll look at higher capacity receivers.

Originally Posted by Carol H

re the Oxygen weight on the weight list - yes it had a shower (mid trailer) every one I have seen so far does (3 so far). The trailers equipment looked pretty well the same as the others as well. It would be a good bet his tanks where empty when weighed as he camped with us at a full service campground the night prior & the trailers were weighed as soon as we arrived at the trailer meet which also had services. Would not make a lot of sense for him to have towed the six hour drive to the meet with water in his holding tanks. The reason the one you saw the ad for stated a much lower weight is simple. Its the same old story - not a lot of people have actually ever really weighed their trailers so the weight stated in ads is more often than not *way* to low - very common to be 600-700lbs over dry weights listed on paper work for the trailer. That's the reason the weight thread that Frederick has set up with all the trailer weights he has taken at meets and posted is IMHO is the **best** thread this forum has. Would believe the weights on Frederick s list long before I would believed a sales ad.

Well, I do know from my own trailer and it's trips to the truck scale that keeping real world weights down is about as easy as dieting at Christmas, where does it all come from????!!!! I think I have a lot of small heavy items. It's hilarious how packed my little TV gets trying to keep weight out of the trailer! But that 1650 lb number, that sounds super light for a unit the size of an Oxygen, more so than the average unrealistic numbers usually given for 16+ footers. Seems the more often quoted "optimistic" number for bigger eggs is usually 2000-2200. I think my 13' is about 1500lbs dry after all my mods!

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Darn Daniel did you take the trailer? If you did when you return would you share which crossing you used and how it went? & anything else you would do different next trip. Getting conflicting suggestions on that front.

I also would love to know about taking a TT down to Baja!!!! Never been down there and that's a real shame!!!

[dylanear]

View topic - Will an L400 tow a 4500lbs trailer? | Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

Some do tow big loads with Delicas. But would a RHD towing a big egg mountains be something I'd want to do?

[Daniel A.]

Originally Posted by dylanear

Small world! Do you stay in the campground? Or you have a "real" home in the area?

I'll buy you one at Cafe Artigiano! They make one amazing mocha! Look me up when you get back in town.

I keep a Nespresso in the Scamp, I make a darn good mocha myself. But I don't have room in there for even one coffee guest! I need a 16 footer to be able to be social!

Real home in the area I know where you stay and will stop by.

Carol is in the same area.

[Daniel A.]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Darn Daniel did you take the trailer? If you did when you return would you share which crossing you used and how it went? & anything else you would do different next trip. Getting conflicting suggestions on that front.

I took Westjet down Carol renting a three bedroom three bath condo for 900.00 a month in San Jose del Cabo.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by dylanear

I think the change was in 05? But I'm not sure what they changed, the chassis is more or less the same from 03-09 from what I read. So it may have been changes that affect reliability of the engine/driveline more than the ability to safely tow that capacity due to structural improvements, suspension/control issues. Still trying to get more info on that. Did the rating change in other countries at that same time?

You may be correct it was either 05 or 06. I had a 04 and a 00 Outback prior and a 97 Legacy before that. All had lower caps. Between the 04 and the 07 there where a few changes - different engine and transmission combs and I did notice the change in the 04 to the 07 and actually wasn't impressed at first - still not overly. All 07 Outbacks are not the same and not just in regards to 4 vs 6 cyl. seem to recall different transmissions were matched to different models for example. Ratings in different countries have always been a bit different due to there being difference in their build combos as well and in some cases the engines & transmissions offered are a bit different. You can buy a diesel Outback in other countries for example that you can not purchase in NA. Most of the differences in components/parts between NA and other countries started on the Outback 2000 model when they started building them in Indiana, prior to that they were pretty well the same car other than a different rear bumper config.. According to Car and Drive the NA version of the Outback has different components in the back end from its European counter parts for example. I know the hitch attachment points are also very different as well. Had a friend from down under drive my Outback and they have the some year model - they noted a number of differences in the car - among other things they felt for sure that it was a very different tranny and had a hard time adjusting to the one on mine while driving in the mountains.

Originally Posted by dylanear

Let's just say, in theory, if the car was rated for 300lbs tongue weight would you be happy with it and a 16 footer? Or it >feels< like it can't handle more when you're towing? Is it a ratings/compliance issue? Which I do not mean to undermine, just trying to understand the matter.

In theory if I were to stay with a total trailer weight of under 2600lbs and if the Outback had (but it doesnt) a 300 tongue weight limit yup I would say the Outbacks a keeper. But having said that finding and keep a 16' trailer under 2600lbs total isnt as easy as some claim. Would I put a heavier trailer on it just because its rated for more - nope! Not because it doesnt tow the trailer well - it does surprisingly well even in heavy desert cross winds etc. and its had to do a high speed panic stop on a steep grade more than once and it handled that as well if not better than I might have expected a bigger tug to do. But I tend to put more than your average week-end warriors miles on my tow combination over lots of different terrain. Approx 45% of the miles on my current car where put on it while towing. I know that pulling it over the steep roads in the Rocky's and the Cascades for example isn't easy on it. It does it but its not a cake walk for it, so I do worry about it over the long term viability of the car. Also as you pointed out there are many other options out there these days that are offering as good if not better gas mileage - being a full time all wheel drive doesnt help it on that front. Only problem is a lot of those better gas mileage and higher towing cap vehicles are trucks! A truck doesnt work for me as I need something thats *really* good in the snow due to my other activities. Havent meet a truck yet that does well in the snow conditions I need it to. I also need something that fits into a small downtown parking spots. The latter reasons are why my current Subaru is still with me

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

Real home in the area I know where you stay and will stop by.

Carol is in the same area.

Gotcha. For some reason I was thinking she was out on the Island.

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

I took Westjet down Carol renting a three bedroom three bath condo for 900.00 a month in San Jose del Cabo.

Not much more than what I spend for my 10x20 concrete slab! This town is just too spendy!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

I took Westjet down Carol renting a three bedroom three bath condo for 900.00 a month in San Jose del Cabo.

LOL did the same in Zihu in December. Have fun! Enjoy.

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Carol H

You may be correct it was either 05 or 06. I had a 04 and a 00 Outback prior and a 97 Legacy before that. All had lower caps. Between the 04 and the 07 there where a few changes - different engine and transmission combs and I did notice the change in the 04 to the 07 and actually wasn't impressed at first - still not overly. All 07 Outbacks are not the same and not just in regards to 4 vs 6 cyl. seem to recall different transmissions were matched to different models for example. Ratings in different countries have always been a bit different due to there being difference in their build combos as well and in some cases the engines & transmissions offered are a bit different. You can buy a diesel Outback in other countries for example that you can not purchase in NA. Most of the differences in components/parts between NA and other countries started on the Outback 2000 model when they started building them in Indiana, prior to that they were pretty well the same car other than a different rear bumper config.. According to Car and Drive the NA version of the Outback has different components in the back end from its European counter parts for example. I know the hitch attachment points are also very different as well. Had a friend from down under drive my Outback and they have the some year model - they noted a number of differences in the car - among other things they felt for sure that it was a very different tranny and had a hard time adjusting to the one on mine while driving in the mountains.



In theory if I were to stay with a total trailer weight of under 2600lbs and if the Outback had (but it doesnt) a 300 tongue weight limit yup I would say the Outbacks a keeper. But having said that finding and keep a 16' trailer under 2600lbs total isnt as easy as some claim. Would I put a heavier trailer on it just because its rated for more - nope! Not because it doesnt tow the trailer well - it does surprisingly well even in heavy desert cross winds etc. and its had to do a high speed panic stop on a steep grade more than once and it handled that as well if not better than I might have expected a bigger tug to do. But I tend to put more than your average week-end warriors miles on my tow combination over lots of different terrain. Approx 45% of the miles on my current car where put on it while towing. I know that pulling it over the steep roads in the Rocky's and the Cascades for example isn't easy on it. It does it but its not a cake walk for it, so I do worry about it over the long term viability of the car. Also as you pointed out there are many other options out there these days that are offering as good if not better gas mileage - being a full time all wheel drive doesnt help it on that front. Only problem is a lot of those better gas mileage and higher towing cap vehicles are trucks! A truck doesnt work for me as I need something thats *really* good in the snow due to my other activities. Havent meet a truck yet that does well in the snow conditions I need it to. I also need something that fits into a small downtown parking spots. The latter reasons are why my current Subaru is still with me

Excellent feedback, thanks! I know what it feels like to have something workable, but not ideal. Got that now in spades! So, that said, an Outback, even towing a 16 is probably a lot more ideal than my current, merely workable, and only in ideal conditions, situation. Won't be buying immediately, so plenty more time for research.

May end up getting a bigger trailer first, just leave it at the CG. Then save up for the new TV for the next summer season.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by dylanear

Gotcha. For some reason I was thinking she was out on the Island.

I do spend a good deal of time over on the island (family all still there) but if you look behind you up the mountain - I am looking down on you from a couple of hundred meters below the current snow line. See me waving??? Dang its a little socked in around the bridge this afternoon. But all eyes are on you when the fog lifts! More of us around than you may think so behave yourself! We dont want to read all about it in the North Shore News

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I do spend a good deal of time over on the island (family all still there) but if you look behind you up the mountain - I am looking down on you from a couple of hundred meters below the current snow line. See me waving??? Dang its a little socked in around the bridge this afternoon. But all eyes are on you when the fog lifts! More of us around than you may think so behave yourself! We dont want to read all about it in the North Shore News

You probably see me waiting for the bus in the AM! I know I'm checking out the mountains while waiting most mornings.

I'll have to pick your brain about the good hikes and walks in the area. I walk along Ambleside plenty and up the river some times. Have yet to make a trip up to Grouse, but been meaning to.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by dylanear

You probably see me waiting for the bus in the AM! I know I'm checking out the mountains while waiting most mornings.

I'll have to pick your brain about the good hikes and walks in the area. I walk along Ambleside plenty and up the river some times. Have yet to make a trip up to Grouse, but been meaning to.

Well I can see how badly the traffic is back up on the bridge but my eye sight isnt good enough to make out the folks waiting for the bus

Send me a PM and happy to share some hiking area ideas if you havent already found them. The Grouse Grind, mother natures stair master is currently closed due to snow levels but the BCMC trail which also goes up to the top is still being used by the hardy but can be tricky due to snow but the avalanche rating is currently low - just check that before heading up. If you hike up to Grouse you can get a ride down on the tram for only $10 - I think its about $40 if you take a round trip.

[Shawneegyrl]

Originally Posted by dylanear

You must have missed my link to those forums in my OP. Definitely spent some time in there. But still coming up with more questions than finding answers at this point.

Yes I did, sorry, just joined and jumped in!

VW? Air cooled? Water cooled? Problems with the running gear, or just camper related things? Both?



I love my 13', but if you full time at all, yep a 16' seems like the ticket. Those 3 feet and 500-600lbs extra make for a much more practical home I think.

AH, the Van. It is a 1994 GMC Vandura 3500, 7.4 L engine, a monster that gets less than 10 MPG. Nice thing is that it is paid for. Only costs me insurance till I gas up to go. It is a pretty cool camper. Has a high top so I can stand upright, a 2 burner propane stove, 3 way fridge, microwave, toilet/shower inside, 2 nice closets, a drawer, side dinette for 2 and a sofa that I can barely sleep on. The dinette drops down and there is a filler board and it becomes a queen size bed. It also has fresh, grey, black water tanks and a generator that does not work at this time (needs rebuilt). A/C unit on the top of the coach and a propane furnace and hot water tank. I have been weekend powwow camping for 3+ years with just the battery for a little power for lights and my laptop.

It is not child friendly by design, which is why I would go another route if I have to go in debt for another camping setup, i.e.. Outback and a Scamp. I could drag the g-children along sometimes.

It is my daily driver too, but I do not drive much. I worked at home for the last 6 years and now retired,

The problem I have had was ongoing problem with the distributer cap and rotor burning out. I replaced them 5 times in under 5,000 miles. Then we decided to replace the whole distributer shaft that goes down to drivetrain and got 2 defective ones. The third one looks like it fixed that problem.

Now it hesitates and backfires in the carb when I get on the gas pedal hard. It also runs real rough when first started if it sits for 2-3 days, by the time I am a couple of blocks down the road it settles down. My nephew (and primary mechanic) thinks it may be spark plug wire. He does not like the looks of one that probably dropped down against the heat shield when other work was done.

He will replace them in the next week and we will see what happens. Right now I stay within 100 miles of home, but the bucket list includes going to all the National Parks along with some northern and western powwows.

I am too old to push that van down Route 66

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Shawneegyrl

AH, the Van.

Sounds like a great van actually. But I won't put up with any engine that's not fuel injected in this day and age. A carburated 7.4l v-8 sounds HUNGRY! I wonder what a more modern, smaller, fuel injected engine swap would cost? But the thing about a modernish chevy, the right mechanic and the proper budget and it should run well. It's not exotic hardware! But carburated engines in the modern emissions era don't always mix well. So many complex bits and hoses!

I can understand you wanting something else. I love leaving the trailer behind and being able to drive off in something smaller than a motorhome.

Perhaps you need a Delica! (Kidding!!!)

[Shawneegyrl]

It is a great van and a very hungry one also. I am not sure about a different motor, the van is really heavy. The new fully converted vans with the same features as mine are made with much lighter materials throughout and cost $100K+ new. They really seem to hold their value too.

If I can get back on the road with this one for a while I will be happy. If not I will be moving to a TV and a Scamp. I call myself a turtle with my home on my back. I just pull over into a parking lot and draw the curtains. If I have parked to camp and pulled all my stuff out for the weekend, then I am staying put. I could drive away for a while but usually do not want to. If I forgot something -- too bad -- do without.

The drums are beating and I just hate being stuck at home.

[dylanear]

The heft you'll never get rid of, but a more modern fuel injected motor would really help with mileage I bet. Probably cost $3000 to $5000 to do right though. A diesel would be awesome, but that's a different level of conversion I'd guess. Not sure what modern diesel options would even bolt in.