Do you have a SMALL SUV with a factory towing package?

[Joe Li]

ok, I have a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe with the 3.3 L engine and the tow package (not an option in Canada, comes on everything from asia as a standard here.) My manual says that I can tow 3500 lbs with brakes and 2000 lbs without and the tow ratings for the 2.7L is less but in england where the 3.3 is not available (2.7L v6 is the largest gas avail there) the tow rating is listed as 4400 lbs with brakes and it even specifies that this is for a fully laden vehicle and to consult your hyundai dealer for higher tow ratings for driver only. So my 3500 is very conservative as everything else about these vehicles is identical except I have a larger motor with more low end torque and 57 more hp. In europe surge brakes are used more often (less likely to suffer user error and the braking is proportional to the tvś) and they tend to run lighter tongue weights with better sway control but if your vehicle is rated higher in europe ther is no reason that you could not tow upto your max providing your towing duty cycle is less than 25% of vehicle usage. They have already built in a safety margin for us (3500 is 79.5% of 4400) and at least hyundai is assumming a tv at max gross not min possible weight. Just my 2 cents. And I have towed a hybrid travel trailer weighing 3200 lbs and did not feel under powered or pushed around in moderate terrain.

[Pete Dumbleton]

In europe surge brakes are used more often (less likely to suffer user error and the braking is proportional to the tvś) and they tend to run lighter tongue weights with better sway control

These may be some of the reasons that went into setting the tow limits higher in Euro than in US, tricking folks into thinking their tow vehicle is better than rated -- Merely rated differently under different conditions! However, it sounds like you have enough TV for the job.

Keep in mind that something that appears simple on the surface may be more complex -- For example, I believe the Euro tongue weights are lower because the tongues (ball to axle) may be proportionally longer -- If one extended one's tongue to fifteen feet (like many gravel trucks do on USA West Coast, the tongue weight can be reduced to almost zero yet be safer, sway-wise, than a shorter tongue with a higher TW.

Surge brakes have their drawbacks, esp when using engine braking on a steep downhill curve -- One may find the trailer brakes being applied without driver input in a gravel patch... Also, only some kinds of WDH can handle surge brakes.

What kind of anti-sway control are the Euros using that are different than here?

[Patrick M.]

Yo Karalyn, so what tow vehicle did you end up getting?

[Joe Li]

I should have typed that sway control is more often used and at a lighter weight than in North America. I think that all of the same systems are available but could be wrong.

[Pete Dumbleton]

I was informed by PM that there are Euro anti-sway systems in effect that use the forged hitch ball and mount (one piece) as the friction spot (couldn't do it here because the ball may get unscrewed) -- How effective they are is open to question.

I guess the point is that there are other variables than the obvious ones between countries and sometimes drawing a conclusion based on incomplete information may lead to an erroneous conclusion.

[Daniel V.]

Here's a link that I picked up from another forum that shows an example of an European sway control device that I don't believe we can get around here.

http://www.winterhoff.de/english/inhalt.html

[Karalyn]

Patrick, I ended up with a 2002 Envoy, 6 cylander. We just hauled the 16 ft Casita to Pennsylvania and back and it works great...... no strain on the motor.
I took the Envoy through the car wash and the sunroof leaks. Hopefully I didn't have it closed right.
I feel having the extra towing capacity is well worth it. I am happy with the ride and the towing capability.
Thanks for asking. :-)

[Pete Dumbleton]

Here's a link that I picked up from another forum that shows an example of an European sway control device that I don't believe we can get around here.

http://www.winterhoff.de/english/inhalt.html

Looking at the diagram, it seems to me that the Winterhoff device is functionally the same as a friction bar, just torque on the ball instead of straight line on the bar -- Same weakness in that once the system has slipped, it will take an equal but opposite force to 'slip' it back.

[Marc]

We have an 01 CR-V and in the very short time I tried towing with it, it is too small for towing a trailer such as the Jubilee...You are supposed to keep it out of overdrive when pulling, and on the highway at 100 KM/H 4300 RPM is not too appealing. Also, it is above the rated weight of what it can tow.

I would worry about a car towing a trailer like this - could the frontal area of the trailer affect the way it pulls, like pulling a giant barn?

I thought I would give an update...

Two weeks ago I hauled the Jubilee on a two hour trip with the CR-V and it pulled along OK on the highway, no trouble on the flat, no swaying, braking was OK, and I was able to keep 80 KM/H on the steep hills. However, fuel economy suffered a great deal, giving about 16 MPG while towing. That is the mileage the Scout gives, and it is under very little strain while towing.

[Doug Irby]

Hi, this is my first post on this forum, but this is a topic of great importance to RVers, including myself.

First, let's remember that the tow ratings for all vehicles are calculated with a full tank of fuel and a 150 pound driver, and nothing else in the vehicle. Therefore, the weight of everything else you put in the vehicle, plus the weight of the driver that is in excess of 150 pounds, plus the weight of the hitch itself all have to be deducted from the towing capacity of your TV. I think some people are not aware of this fact. Therefore, when choosing a tow vehicle for your RV, don't forget to calculate the weight of what you intend to carry in your vehicle. It all must be deducted from your vehicle's towing capacity, except for 150 ponds for the driver.

Another often overlooked fact is that the towing capacity of your tow vehicle was calculated without any factory options on your vehicle (just like the Cargo Carrying Capacity of your RV was calculated). Therefore, you need to weigh your tow vehicle after it is packed and loaded with all occupants. Take this weight and subtract the stated weight of your tow vehicle, which can usually be found on your registration certificate or your owners manual. The remainder must be deducted from your tow vehicle's towing capacity.

With these facts in mind it is easy to understand how one could easily be under the impression they are towing within the towing limitations of your tow vehicle when you actually aren't.

Can you tow okay when you are overloaded? Yes, you can often tow to your personal satisfaction and still leave yourself overweight without even knowing it. Is that a problem? It can be if you have an accident with significant financial implications. If it can be proven that (1) you were overweight in your tow vehicle and/or your RV, and (2) that overweight contributed to the accident. If these are the case, your insurance company may try to deny your claim, and someone else may sue you for damages and have a very good case, even if the accident is not otherwise your fault.

So, it all boils down to personal responsibility and understanding, and how averse you are to your legal risk resulting from being overweight with either your tow vehicle or your RV.

[Doug Irby]

I was informed that I was mistaken about the above facts. The facts I posted above apply only to the tow ratings of light duty trucks (pickups) and not to passenger vehicles.

For passenger vehicles, the towing capacity does not have to be reduced by all weight in excess of the 150 pound driver that is in the tow vehicle. According to what I understand, tow ratings can remain as stated by the manufacturer as long as the Combined Weight Rating of the passenger vehicle is not exceeded by the loaded weight of the trailer combined with the loaded weight of the tow vehicle.

Thanks to Brian B-P for correcting me on this important point.

[Tony L]

I have a 2007 Jeep Liberty 4x4 with a 3.7L engine and the factory tow package which gives me a 5000 tow capacity. I currently tow a Seadoo 150 Speedster boat weighing about 2000 pounds without any trouble. I really like the Jeep Liberty as it's small and get fair gas mileage and has a pretty good ride.

[Kevin K]

I would like to have a Toyota RAV4 with a V6, also gets very good gas mileage.



Tow rating 3500 lbs.
262 lbs torque.

[Per Walthinsen]

A little bit of emphasis on the necessity of reading the fine print as it refers to your specific vehicle: my Odyssey has a towing limit of 3500lbs but it is calculated with driver and one passenger. From there on it is reduced by 150lbs each time you add a passenger.

A sidelight: when reading the info on the Dexter 3500 lb Torflex axle it was clear that the weight did not include the wheels, tires, or brake assemblies. Unsprung weight does not count. In a legal tussle you could take off the wheel assemblies and weigh them and add this to the 3500 lb limit and still be within specs. These parts have significant weight, so it might be important.

[Greg Janke]

So, I'm towing with a 2002 Ranger (that's paid for!) 4.0L v6 and automatic transmission. It just passed 80k miles and my extended warranty runs out in 4 months. It's #6 in my ongoing infatuation with Rangers.

I'm wondering what experience other Ranger/Mazda drivers have with their rigs' longevity. I'm wondering about the transmission. New trucks are sure priced right at the moment but I sure as heck don't want to buy a full size.

Greg