Economical Tow Vehicle

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Borden

The 13' bolers should be only 1000 lbs?

If you believe their advertizing of 1000 lbs DRY, but I don't know anybody who tows around a totally empty trailer.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html
The lightest Boler on that list is 1300 lbs.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Borden

2200 pounds is more than our 17' boler!

Really - you believe that?? Bang if you were to come our meet in June were we will have a number of 17' Bolers I would be happy to bring in some scales to have them weighed and put a little fun bet up that not one of them will come in loaded at under 2200lbs (including there tongue weight)

[BCDave]

My Boler 1700 was usually somewhere near 3,000# (or more) when setting out for a weekend

[Carol H]

Dave that is right in line with the Boler 1700 #48 on the Real World weight came in at 2970lbs.

Oh but dont worry Dave - I am assuming we can sleep better about sharing the road with him as he really isnt pulling the 17' Boler with the Corolla he mentions in his tag as that would be well over the 1500lbs tow spec but instead is using the Impreza wagon mentioned in the post, which would only be over by about a 1000lbs or at least thats based on the only spec I can find for it in Canada.

Oh well How about them Canucks? can you believe they got the boot so fast.... yet another year goes by. Will we live long enough to see the Cup in this town???

[BCDave]

Sorry to have to break it to you, Carol, but there is a reason why they are called "The Cannots"

[BCDave]

Well, after watching the video of the bike pulling the baby airstream around the lot - and noting that it appears to be from can-Am - I think my views oof Can-Am are vindicated.

They in fact DO seem to favor towing anything with anything, and would see nothing wrong with trying to tow a 40 footer through the mountains (sans any form of brakes) behind a Vespa.

Sorry if I offended anyone on here who will now chime in to say that they have been doing exactly that for 25 years and never had an issue!

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

The reason I ask is if you have only been doing it for a short time you may want to start having your brakes checked every month or so.

From personal experience in towing with a Subaru Outback that's pulling under the manufactures tow rating and a trailer with good working brakes (actually replaced the whole assembly a couple of years ago and adjusted every year since) the car has gone through brakes **way faster**

*****Wow Carol, something is really out of wack with your set up/TV.****

Note when the trailer brakes are set up and working correctly the trailer brakes stop the trailer and the car brakes stop the car.
In your case if the car is contributing to the stopping of the trailer then either the trailer brakes are set up incorrectly or your trailer brakes are not strong enough to fully stop the trailer. You should have this checked out.

I am a trained automotive mechanic and service our own vehicles/trailer brakes and I agree with you, checking brakes often is a good thing.

I have noticed trailer brake wear over the years on our Airstream. The amount of wear is normal, about what one would expect. On the car nothing unusual either. Brake pads and rotors are lasting over 100,000 klm's (60,000 miles) which for a sports oriented vehicle with an aggressive braking system is very good.

Braking systems that are operating correctly is a biggy. This is why we have professionals overview/set up our combination.

Note.. Towing enthusiasts from all over North America (West Coast, Texas, Florida, East Coast etc) have travelled to Can Am for hitch installation/set up and, or corrective action. Are you close by? No doubt they could help you solve your setup issues.

Not sure what the bashing is all about. If you do some research on Can Am you would find they have an exceptional safety record spanning 40 years in operation.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Sorry to have to break it to you, Carol, but there is a reason why they are called "The Cannots"

LOL, we always thought it was about "Candu".....http://gnssn.iaea.org/regnet/Pages/CANDU.aspx.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

Note when the trailer brakes are set up and working correctly the trailer brakes stop the trailer and the car brakes stop the car.
In your case if the car is contributing to the stopping of the trailer then either the trailer brakes are set up incorrectly or your trailer brakes are not strong enough to fully stop the trailer. You should have this checked out.
.

LOL you missed the point of my post - yes I am well aware brakes should last a lot longer with a good brake controller and good trailer brakes all set up & working well but that's not the case!

Have owned *a lot* of cars in my life time and none have ever gone through brakes as this one has. Its also not the first time I have ever towed. ;-) I also have owned previously two of the same make and model of car so I know what their brake life is/was & should be on this particular make and model. Nothing near as short as the current one!

As stated I had a whole new brake assembly put on the trailer after the first set of the cars front brakes went way faster than expected. Even though the brakes that were on the trailer where working and the party who took them off said there appeared to be little wrong with them! I still insisted they replace them due to their age as I thought that something had to be wrong with the my set up! Since then I have had the new trailer brakes serviced and adjusted - yet I have managed to go through more brakes - just as fast as the first set. The brakes on the trailer do work really well and the car will stop fast even in the worst case conditions as unfortunately it has had to prove it - it stops way better than some might think - actually way better than what I had expected. I can also feel the brakes on the trailer working even when stopping on flat terrain so I have no doubt about whether or not they are actually working & set correctly. I check and adjust the controller every time I hook up and if I was to set the controller any higher the trailer would be acting like a real big bunny rabbit every time I touched the brakes! That also would not be a good thing. I have no doubt that CanAm would agree its all set up correctly and its good to go.

As I stated I have talked to Subaru about it and I am told that as I am towing a trailer close to cap and even though I have good working trailer brakes the length of time the brakes are lasting is to be expected. The brake specialist who actually replaced the last two sets said the same thing! The brake specialist is actually not at all alarmed or surprised that I am getting such a short life out of the brakes. Told me I am not there only customer using a small SUV for towing that has had less than normal expected brake life. I was also told that another contributing factor is the fact this vehicle is an automatic (last two Subaru's where manuals) and the fact I dont live or tow in the flat lands.

As I said the car tows well, stops well but there are additional issues that one might not know about until they have put more than a few miles on the car. It also confirms that the vehicle is in fact working way harder than one might think to tow with the trailer and in my situation its not over its tow spec limit. Hate to think how hard the car that is towing over its tow spec limit is working. I just happen to think people who choose to tow just under or over there tugs tow caps may not be giving enough consideration to the additional wear and tear and how hard the car is actually working to tow that white elephant behind it even though while actually driving it doesnt seem to be having trouble. In the case of those who choose to tow way over the manufacturers set limits, I shudder to think about how hard it may be working to stop the trailer.

As I said its a heads up - have the brakes checked often!

[john warren]

Originally Posted by Ed Harris

Here we go again!?

lol,,,,here ed,,,have a cup a coffee,,,this may take awhile.

[MC1]

Always interested in what goes on in the RV industry. Can you provide a link to the issue above. Would like to read about it. Thnxs in advance Carol.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Well, after watching the video of the bike pulling the baby airstream around the lot - and noting that it appears to be from can-Am - I think my views oof Can-Am are vindicated.

They in fact DO seem to favor towing anything with anything, and would see nothing wrong with trying to tow a 40 footer through the mountains (sans any form of brakes) behind a Vespa.

Sorry if I offended anyone on here who will now chime in to say that they have been doing exactly that for 25 years and never had an issue!

Dave;
Do you remember "No Big Thing"?? It was a Vespa with a 427CID L88 big block Chevy in it. Something you said reminded me of it!

[floyd]

One point which I have noticed... The newer late model braking systems simply don't provide the service life of their predecessors.
I discussed this with a couple of suppliers.(I usually use Raybestos best brakes)
One sees the trend and thinks the cause is inexplicable. The other sees the trend and contends that the cause lies in electronic brake controls, such as ABS,ESC, and traction controls.
That assertion has some credence.
I too am a "trained" Mechanic , but I still sometimes find myself in places with no indoor plumbing

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

One point which I have noticed... The newer late model braking systems simply don't provide the service life of their predecessors.
I discussed this with a couple of suppliers.(I usually use Raybestos best brakes)
One sees the trend and thinks the cause is inexplicable. The other sees the trend and contends that the cause lies in electronic brake controls, such as ABS,ESC, and traction controls.
That assertion has some credence.
I too am a "trained" Mechanic , but I still sometimes find myself in places with no indoor plumbing

You may be onto something Floyd - the topic of newer traction control and ABS did come up at my last visit to the brake shop.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by floyd

One point which I have noticed... The newer late model braking systems simply don't provide the service life of their predecessors.
I discussed this with a couple of suppliers.(I usually use Raybestos best brakes)
One sees the trend and thinks the cause is inexplicable. The other sees the trend and contends that the cause lies in electronic brake controls, such as ABS,ESC, and traction controls.
That assertion has some credence.
I too am a "trained" Mechanic , but I still sometimes find myself in places with no indoor plumbing

My experience is just the opposite -- the more modern vehicles I have owned have had far better brakes, both in braking power and longevity -- than the older, and still well maintained cars I have owned in the past. I have owned a handful of Mercedes sedans, and always used high quality Pagid and Jurid pads. I was lucky to get 40,000 miles out of a set of pads... Usually more like 35,000 miles. My 2003 VW was the first car I owned with ABS, and the brake pads were replaced at about 120,000 miles. My 2003 Sprinter Van (ABS and traction control) required pads around 90,000 miles, and it regularly hauled 6,000 pound loads on interstate trips (multiple times per month for a few years). My Toyota/Scion xD's brake pads had lots of meat left at 75,000 miles -- and that one had ABS, VSC, and traction control (and I towed three different non-braked trailers with it). My 2011 Outback only has 18,000 miles, so I have no idea how long the brakes will last.

The thing about ABS, traction control, and stability control is that they ONLY use the brakes when there is a problem. Many drivers have never experienced TheirnABS brakes working, or stability control for that matter. I don't see how they would affect the brake pad life unless they were malfunctioning.

[841K9]

Originally Posted by floyd

One point which I have noticed... The newer late model braking systems simply don't provide the service life of their predecessors.
I discussed this with a couple of suppliers.(I usually use Raybestos best brakes)
One sees the trend and thinks the cause is inexplicable. The other sees the trend and contends that the cause lies in electronic brake controls, such as ABS,ESC, and traction controls.
That assertion has some credence.
I too am a "trained" Mechanic , but I still sometimes find myself in places with no indoor plumbing

Could it be due to our customers and their stupid driving habits?

Full throttle to a dead stop- then repeat.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by 841K9

Could it be due to our customers and their stupid driving habits?

Full throttle to a dead stop- then repeat.

This probably has a lot to do with it... Especially since most modern cars have 200+ horsepower engines that they really don't need, so they have the ability to burn more gas and require more braking between traffic lights/stop signs.

[Mike Magee]

My '08 Highlander's brakes lasted just about 100K miles. About 85% towing mileage. Way better brakes than anything I've owned before, both in effectiveness and longevity. Way better than on my Ford product, Floyd! (sorry, couldn't resist throwing that in!)

[floyd]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

My experience is just the opposite .

Shocking ain't it?

For the last forty years or so I was used to getting 100,000 out of the stock front pads and twice that from the rear shoes. Lately though I have seen a significant reduction in both mine and others which I have serviced.
Who knows? These are, at best anecdotal observations, so far.

I have always driven manual transmissions and so generally subscribe to the SCCA braking credo... Brake,late, hard and seldom!(except when towing)Of course retirement pretty much keeps me out of rush hour these days.
BTW;First I've heard of Pagid or Jurid pads,but then I can only afford Fords.
It's always good to hear all sides!

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by floyd

Shocking ain't it?

For the last forty years or so I was used to getting 100,000 out of the stock front pads and twice that from the rear shoes. Lately though I have seen a significant reduction in both mine and others which I have serviced.
Who knows? These are, at best anecdotal observations, so far.

I have always driven manual transmissions and so generally subscribe to the SCCA braking credo... Brake,late, hard and seldom!(except when towing)Of course retirement pretty much keeps me out of rush hour these days.
BTW;First I've heard of Pagid or Jurid pads,but then I can only afford Fords.
It's always good to hear all sides!

It's not about what you can afford. I bought my last Mercedes for $3,000 at 200,000 miles. I drove it another 220,000 miles and sold it for $3,500. Along the way, it was "totaled" in an accident and my insurance company ended up writing me a check for $10,500 for it (and let me keep and repair the car). I sold it in 2002, and the current owner has been driving it daily ever since. My father still services it (well, I should say he -now- services it, as I did all of my own service for the six years I owned it. Cheapest car I've ever owned!

By the way, the car has well over 600,000 miles on it, and the owner is thinking of dropping a rebuilt engine in it since the original engine has developed an odd noise.

Oh, and that car has a custom class 3 hitch on it. Towed other Mercedes on a dolly with it many times... Sometimes on interstate trips.