Economical Tow Vehicle

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Alan I am in the same boat and have been looking around. I would like a 17' Escape as well some time in the not to distant future and would luv to find a vehicle to replace my Outback with thats *really* good in the snow (p/u's are not the best in that regard) and good on gas.

As Mike has suggested there are a number of small SUV that can handle the total weight of 3500lbs but the tongue weight is the deal killer. Currently know all to well what a pain it is to have to worry about what you stow or dont stow or what additions you make to the trailer or dont make to keep it within a lower tongue weight. I know I would be much happier with something with more rather than less tongue weight cap.

I have talked with a few folks towing the 17' Escape with the RAV4 and the issue of the lower tongue rating has come up more than once. Some of those folks have made some changes to what they bring along or dont bring along to keep the tongue weight down - others have added air bags to the rear suspension and other equipment to help out. As much as I would prefer to keep to a smaller SUV having been there and done that for the past five years I personally would be happier not having to worry about going over tongue caps. The other downside to the RAV4 that I noted is you cant open the back door all the way if the trailer is hitched. It would for me be a pain to have to unhitch the trailer just to get my golf bag out of the back or get a *big* dog out.

So far I have only been doing a fairly casual look at my options - some high on my list to explore further are the Highlander and the Acura MDX (although good for 5000lbs I am still not really clear on its tongue rate). The Mitsubishi Oulander XLS-S-AWC has a tow rating of 3500lbs and tongue of 350lbs but again I just think the 350lbs might be to limiting. Honda Pilot is another within the tow cap but again Im not totally clear on the tongue weight or what addn package you may need to purchase with it to get a tongue rating over 350lbs. Suspect there are a number of others to look at as well.

Now if I were to win the lotto and think I might head straight over to VW and bring home a Touareg..... one of the models has a 7000lb tow cap and tongue weight of over 600lbs. A few other smaller SUV options are the Audi Q7 and BMW X5 and MB ML 350 all have tow caps over 6000lbs and tongue weights of 600 or more....

On the other hand if Subaru suddenly decided to bring to NA an Outback with much higher tow cap and tongue cap than what they currently offer that without a doubt would be my first choose regardless of having won the lotto or not

If you find some other options **please*** share with us what you discover.

How about the new Ford Explorer?

http://www.ford.com/suvs/explorer/

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

How about the new Ford Explorer?

2013 Ford Explorer SUV | Conquer Any Terrain While Surrounded By World Class Interior. Go Adventure | Ford.com

How did I know Floyd when I wrote it, that you where going to suggest a Ford!

Your right though I need to forget the allergy I developed to their products based on past experiences - lots seemed to have changed with them in recent years. Suspect GM also may have a something that does the trick as well although I my have more trouble getting over may allergy to them as I am still stinging from the hit my investment portfolo took in regards to their past history

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

How did I know Floyd when I wrote it, that you where going to suggest a Ford!

Your right though I need to forget the allergy I developed to their products based on past experiences - lots seemed to have changed with them in recent years. Suspect GM also may have a something that does the trick as well although I my have more trouble getting over my allergy to them as I am still stinging from the hit my investment portfolo took in regards to their past history

Buy a Toyota!

[Andrew Gibbens]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

The Rabbit diesel is a bad example, because it started with a 1.5 liter 48hp engine and weighed 2,145 pounds. A 2006 Rabbit (Golf) diesel has a 1.9 liter 100hp engine and weighs almost 3,000 pounds. Both cars get around 50 MPG. So, they added more than 800 pounds and more than DOUBLED the horsepower, and still get about the same fuel economy.

One of the great advantages of diesel engines is their part-load fuel efficiency. So unlike with a petrol/gas engine, there isn't a huge penalty for fitting a large diesel engine, for the rare occasion when you want/need the extra power/torque, and then driving around in a way that only needs a small engine.

For example, using a BMW 5 series sedan, just because BMW offer a wide range of diesel engines, the 2 litre diesel engine makes 180hp/280ft-lb and produces a combined Euro economy figure of 50mpg. The most powerful 3 litre diesel makes 310hp/440 ft-lb but still gets 44mpg combined. Those are miles per US gallon, but the Euro economy test is only about as harsh as the old EPA one.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens

One of the great advantages of diesel engines is their part-load fuel efficiency.

Andrew do the newer diesel engines have a lot less issues with cold weather starts than those of the past decade?? Reason I ask is many of the mountains where I go to ski it gets down into -20C or greater for a few days -30C isnt unheard of. In the past I know friends with diesel engines had problems starting them if they had been sitting for a few days in that temp and block heaters where not use. Just wondering if that has changed and if I should reconsider diesel as an option.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by alan in alberta

There has to be some good advice out there somewhere.

Any recomendations for a small SUV that can and should be towing up to 3500#'s??

toyota rav 4, escape , mitsubishi outlander ......Others ??? experience??

For a small SUV the BMW X3 would be my first choice. For the weights you are looking at it would be creme de creme. For less money you have other options but the performance will not be comparable.

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Andrew do the newer diesel engines have a lot less issues with cold weather starts than those of the past decade?? Reason I ask is many of the mountains where I go to ski it gets down into -20C or greater for a few days -30C isnt unheard of. In the past I know friends with diesel engines had problems starting them if they had been sitting for a few days in that temp and block heaters where not use. Just wondering if that has changed and if I should reconsider diesel as an option.

One of the major issues with starting a disease-el in very cold temps is not the engine itself, but the fuel - which will gel in "minus a zillion" temps - also know as "worse than minus 20".

There are a whole buncha dieseasel fuel additives to cure that.

The new glow plugs are now quite efficient, too.

Disease-els have come a long way since the days when I used to laugh at my Dad's M-B 300D which - at minus 10 had to kept inside the garage at minus 20 had to be plugged it. At minus 30 it had to be plugged in, AND in the garage. At minus 40 it had to sit while the taxi was called.

BTW - for CARS - I go Japanese every time - no exceptions.
For trucks - Domestic every time (Floyd and I disagree on WHICH domestic)
SUVs - might be domestic, more likely Japanese.

After owning 2 Audis, one M-B and one Volvo, I will NEVER allow another European car of ANY make to even park near anything I own lest something fall off it and harm my car.

[alan in alberta]

As i said before we are just starting to look for a smaller suv that can tow 3500#

Our mechanic asked us to steer clear of the the hyundai and kia even though he could make more cash on those over time.

I have a 2008 Ford Ranger now. It has been really good but the new escapes are in the first model year and the Ford service people border on the criminal here in alberta. Exploders are not on my list

Beamer's seem a bit pricy

Carol with a lottery win porshe cayenne turbo would merit a look.... i catch a glimpse of one flying by me now and then

The front runner right now is the mitsubishi outlander even though it has a relativly low tongue weight. Great warranty, the split tailgate lets you open the back when hooked up, handled well on the test drive and seemed quite solid. Carol liked it too. ( i went here first as i thought it would be a quick elimination but got surprized)

Next up Rav 4 but probably not for a few weeks as we are quite busy for a while

[DonFromTexas]

I completely do not understand your statement about Hyundai and Kia. An American made car with a 100,000 mile, 10 year warranty seems like a good thing to me, I bought a new 2009 model Kia and my mechanic has not seen me since. Just exactly how was your mechanic going to make any money off that? Methinks he advised against because he would not even see you again for 10 years and he might go hungry.

[alan in alberta]

Originally Posted by DonFromTexas

I completely do not understand your statement about Hyundai and Kia. An American made car with a 100,000 mile, 10 year warranty seems like a good thing to me, I bought a new 2009 model Kia and my mechanic has not seen me since. Just exactly how was your mechanic going to make any money off that? Methinks he advised against because he would not even see you again for 10 years and he might go hungry.

He knows i keep a vehicle for 10 to 15 years .......the new one will be replacing a 1994 olds

He thought they would be okay for 3-4 years

After that he felt we would be seeing him more and he has had to wait up to 2 weeks for parts on some of them. Maybe the USA has better parts distribution and\or the cold up here in the frozen north gets to them.

[MCDenny]

I think a Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 is a good choice in the medium size SUV category. 5000# tow, 500# tongue weight. The tow package includes the usual plus load leveling rear suspension for $595 msrp. Vehicle stability system has a trailer anti-sway function.

[Carol H]

Consumers just came out with their Annual Auto issue which may be worth a read. Funny enough one of the Hyundai's got in the top 10 best scores & the lowest scoring car was a Toyota (an FJ) - go figure.

Edit to add a link to Consumers report cards re Best Car Manufactures

Floyd - Did I mention that I luv my Subaru

[Andrew Gibbens]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Andrew do the newer diesel engines have a lot less issues with cold weather starts than those of the past decade??

I'm in Britain where we don't get much cold weather - a daytime temperature below freezing is rare here - so can't comment.

Modern diesels have definitely been designed for drivers who know nothing about the motor, so those old things like a glow-plug light coming on, and having to wait till it goes out before starting the engine, are long gone.

[David Tilston]

We have two vans. One is the vacation limo. It is a Savana travel van conversion. The other is a 2WD 1997 Safari. The Safari would be a good tow vehicle for a smaller family than ours. Not bad mileage, 500 lb tongue weight and also 5000 lb tow. Cheep, and lots on the road, and in the wreckers.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Consumers just came out with their Annual Auto issue which may be worth a read. Funny enough one of the Hyundai's got in the top 10 best scores & the lowest scoring car was a Toyota (an FJ) - go figure.

Edit to add a link to Consumers report cards re Best Car Manufactures

Yes and not to long ago Hyundai gave the 4 cyl Elantra a 3,000lb tow rating. The same year GM rated the 300HP V8 Northstar Cadillac DTS at 1,000lbs.

[mcbrew]

Cold weather starting is not an issue with modern diesels. It is one of those things that will always be remembered in this country, as we haven't sold many diesels since the early 80s. Glow plug and fuel injection technology has improved to the point where you don't even really need to stop and let them glow, because they do their job in under a second. Heck, my tractor doesn't even have glow plugs... And it starts fine in our coldest weather, although it usually only gets down to single digits around here. My last VW diesel, which was a 2003 (so technology has already advanced quite a bit since then) would only fire the glow plugs when the ambient temperature was below 50 degrees. Even then, it was only a few seconds. Much better than the old filament type that took 30 seconds or more. 30 seconds is a LONG time to wait to turn the key.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by MC1

Yes and not to long ago Hyundai gave the 4 cyl Elantra a 3,000lb tow rating. The same year GM rated the 300HP V8 Northstar Cadillac DTS at 1,000lbs.

The 3,000 pound rating was a mistake... A car magazine published the European tow rating for the Elantra before it was available in the US. They later did a retraction.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

The 3,000 pound rating was a mistake... A car magazine published the European tow rating for the Elantra before it was available in the US. They later did a retraction.

Yes, the retraction noted the adjustment of the rating to 2,500lbs for NA.

[Carol H]

Would be great if someone has actually experienced a newer diesel in the double digit negatives temps - trust me when its that cold that last thing you want is to have trouble or have to wait even 5 secs to start the car and heater up.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Would be great if someone has actually experienced a newer diesel in the double digit negatives temps - trust me when its that cold that last thing you want is to have trouble or have to wait even 5 secs to start the car and heater up.

Diesel fuel itself has changed dramatically in recent years and Diesel engines have changed in response. Much of what we knew about cold starts or seasonal fuel blends has changed, especially on 2007 and newer engines.( Also the year I retired from the refinery and fleet service and lost interest)