Ford Transit Connect Van?

[steelypip]

I'm not beating on the idea of having vehicle preferences. I have them myself - I tend to prefer Ford's platform (chassis) engineering to GMs, and very much prefer their control system methodology. GM also has had a history over the last 30 years or so of being a little too bottom-line driven in supplier negotiations, and that has mean that they've had more than their share of components that died too young ('97 Corvette fuel pumps come to mind). Ford did this too, but not as often or as egregiously.

One thing that has made Toyotas so bulletproof over the decades, I think is the Japanese keiretsu system. There's no such thing as aggressive supplier negotiations in this system, and that tends to prevent this sort of problem.

That said, weak design criteria can doom you even if parts are made exactly to spec: the '89 Acura Legend we had was a great car (my wife still misses it) until all the electronics started dying at about 15 years and 200K. There was nothing wrong with the EE work, but the solder joints had thermal fatigue issues. Reflowing them solved the problem, but the many little modules were frequently buried deep inside the car and were a pain to get at. See also Honda fuel injection relays (the Acura had the same part as the Civic).

After experiences fixing student/girlfriend cars in my school days I have forever sworn off of Mitsubishis and Nissans. I know that writing Nissan, in particular, off the list takes a lot of otherwise desirable vehicles off the plate.

My point is not to claim that all vehicles are the same - they aren't, of course. But it's important not to mythologize buying a complex engineered machine designed to a multitude of detailed specifications. Look past the advertising and mythology and see what is really there. A combination of economic and engineering decisions lead to what you see. If you understand the motivators, you will undertand the product.

[john madill]

honestly, the only "motivator" I can think of for Ford to build Transports in Turkey or in eastern Europe is to do it as cheaply as possible, and further erode the UAW.

[sokhapkin]

The real motivator is the fact that Transit connect has been built in European countries for more than 10 years already. It is not a brand new model, it is 10+ years old European model manufactured since 2003. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect

[Uplander]

Steely pip made a comment about the lack of personality in the current offerings by the automakers....nothing could be further from reality...look around and you will see some some cute...some sexy...and some macho designs out there.

I drive a FJ Landcruiser that is 100% unique...designed with off road use as first priority for the select few...sadly the market for this "real-off-road" vehicle was limited as was the production. The original FJ40 Landcruiser built in the 1960s has become a collectors Classic in off road fun! The Jeep products just don't hold up...poor quality and problem prone systems put them on par with the Range Rover. Range Rovers end up selling for under $5,000 when only a few years old. They break down almost daily.

[Uplander]

Norm...your VW Bug (1969) was built in Germany....you would no be a Happy Camper with the current production of the VW Bug...most are produced in Mexico and word is they are not a shadow of the Bugs produced in the 1960s under German standards.....even the Germans are focused on high profit margins over quality and reliability.

I used to love the print ads VW used in the 1960s...."America's Slowest Fastback". I had one in 1970 with a rag top...fun little "death-trap".... Not even seat belts in the one I had! Cheap to buy...cheap to keep...ran all day on a cup of gasoline ( which was about 19 cents a gal. back then).

[floyd]

Originally Posted by steelypip

I'm not beating on the idea of having vehicle preferences. I have them myself - I tend to prefer Ford's platform (chassis) engineering to GMs, and very much prefer their control system methodology. GM also has had a history over the last 30 years or so of being a little too bottom-line driven in supplier negotiations, and that has mean that they've had more than their share of components that died too young ('97 Corvette fuel pumps come to mind). Ford did this too, but not as often or as egregiously.

One thing that has made Toyotas so bulletproof over the decades, I think is the Japanese keiretsu system. There's no such thing as aggressive supplier negotiations in this system, and that tends to prevent this sort of problem.

That said, weak design criteria can doom you even if parts are made exactly to spec: the '89 Acura Legend we had was a great car (my wife still misses it) until all the electronics started dying at about 15 years and 200K. There was nothing wrong with the EE work, but the solder joints had thermal fatigue issues. Reflowing them solved the problem, but the many little modules were frequently buried deep inside the car and were a pain to get at. See also Honda fuel injection relays (the Acura had the same part as the Civic).

After experiences fixing student/girlfriend cars in my school days I have forever sworn off of Mitsubishis and Nissans. I know that writing Nissan, in particular, off the list takes a lot of otherwise desirable vehicles off the plate.

My point is not to claim that all vehicles are the same - they aren't, of course. But it's important not to mythologize buying a complex engineered machine designed to a multitude of detailed specifications. Look past the advertising and mythology and see what is really there. A combination of economic and engineering decisions lead to what you see. If you understand the motivators, you will undertand the product.

I never thought much of Toyota as bullet proof ....But then we have never allowed firearms in the shop area.

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by Uplander

I used to love the print ads VW used in the 1960s...."America's Slowest Fastback".

My favorite one was "The Volkswagon Beetle can definitely float. But it can't float indefinitely."

I once said to the DH before we were married, "LP can definitely be patient. But she won't be patient indefinitely."

He got the message. Happiness ensued.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Uplander

Steely pip made a comment about the lack of personality in the current offerings by the automakers....nothing could be further from reality...look around and you will see some some cute...some sexy...and some macho designs out there.

Sorry, I can't agree with the new cars having any personality, for the most part they all look like a potato. Very few have any standout body designs that set them apart, from MB on down. I've pulled up behind what I thought was a Beemer only to see it was a Honda, the tail lights were almost the same. In the 50's/60's just a pic of a head/tail light, a roofline, vent wing or part of a grill ect would tell you the year and model at a glance. Can anyone here not say they don't recognize a '55/56/57 Chevy taillight as an example? Sexy to me, '56 Crown Vic or any Chevy Nomads. Macho, '67-69 Barracudas. OK, off my soap box.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Borrego Dave

Sorry, I can't agree with the new cars having any personality, for the most part they all look like a potato. Very few have any standout body designs that set them apart, from MB on down. I've pulled up behind what I thought was a Beemer only to see it was a Honda, the tail lights were almost the same. In the 50's/60's just a pic of a head/tail light, a roofline, vent wing or part of a grill ect would tell you the year and model at a glance. Can anyone here not say they don't recognize a '55/56/57 Chevy taillight as an example? Sexy to me, '56 Crown Vic or any Chevy Nomads. Macho, '67-69 Barracudas. OK, off my soap box.

Cars today are mostly just smart phones with wheels! You would think that would mean more personality with more apps.
Here are a couple of examples...

[EllPea in CA]

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA

PERSONALITY TO SPARE!!

[steelypip]

...and one actual headlight between them. Definitely not the brightest pair...