Good tow vehicle for 2500 lb empty weight camper

[Peter10]

Originally Posted by John_M_1

Thanks. I'm buying a previously owned truck. The tow rating on a Frontier 4x4 is around 6100 lbs. Payload is about 1060 (I think) but I plan to check all that before I buy. I hadn't focused on the figure though - 1060 lbs is a bit light. The crew cab and the 4x4 reduce the payload a good bit. I'll have to think more about that.

I love the Frontier and towing is great but I have the 4 litre engine and it has plenty of power to drag my 21’ Bigfoot 5th wheel anyplace I want to go.
Not great on fuel when pulling but nothing is easy at the pumps.

[Jon in AZ]

Payload is the “dirty little secret” of light duty trucks. My ‘11 Pilot and even my previous ‘00 Sienna have more payload capacity than that. But less towing capacity.

If you’re close, a weight distributing hitch might help. It moves a portion of the hitch weight off the vehicle to the trailer axle (as well as leveling out the front/rear weight distribution on the truck). It’s hard to know exactly how much until you install one and weigh axle-by-axle. And a WDH adds a fair bit of its own weight. Anderson make a lightweight unit that integrates sway control.

[steve dunham]

I’ve towed my firewood trailer with a frontier
Taking off from a dead stop the torque wasn’t bad but not great
The braking ability left a lot to be desired IMHO
Not sure which engine the truck had

[DougOlson]

My 2015 Frontier 4x4 v6 pulls a Scamp 16 just fine. I carry gear in the back while towing and it sagged a little so I installed Sumosprings Solo 1400# booster springs. That leveled out the towing and it rides very comfortably full or empty

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

That raises a question about small displacement turbocharged engines. Most seem to agree they get you up the mountain with a load as well or better than a larger displacement, non-turbo engine. But I have heard remarks that small displacement turbos don’t provide as much engine braking effect to get down the other side. True? False? How much of an issue for towing?
Specifically, how does a turbo four compare to a V6, and how does a turbo six compare to a V8, when descending steep grades towing a trailer?

Asking in part because the Subaru Ascent 2.4T is one of the vehicles I’m watching to replace our Honda Pilot 3.5L in a few years. Both have the same 5000/500# tow rating.

No gasoline powered tow vehicle has Jake brakes. The engine braking is adequate to prevent heating the brakes. In fact with the new 10SPD in tow/haul mode it is quite remarkable in that capacity.
Of course modern turbos have around 10/1 compression ratios and would easily match the engine braking capability of comparable displacement non-turbo engines.

There are plenty of videos on you tube which compare light trucks both turbo and non-turbo. including 4-6-8CYL trucks, full sized and mid sized.
All trucks subjected to the exact same conditions on the exact same roads, up a particular mountain and down the other side. all driven at the same speeds up and down monitoring time to the top and the number of brake applications down the same grade.
That question is pretty much answered ... False.

[Jon in AZ]

I’d love to have a link, Floyd, as all the sources I’ve read pretty much agree that compression braking is related to displacement.

But perhaps the problem is mitigated by the increased number of gears available?

I do understand we’re not talking about exhaust braking.

[vin]

Everybody has preferences, likes and dislikes, theories and formulas. Vintage racer nailed it. A safe trip depends on a safe adequate t.v. A not so smart car should not tow a 30' airstream regardless of how good a deal the camper was. My ram semi 2 wd. 8 spd. tran. crew pulled a 21" escape through 3,000 mi. of gnarly weather like a champ. No truck squat and a level camper with no tow accessories. Works for me.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by vin

Everybody has preferences, likes and dislikes, theories and formulas. Vintage racer nailed it. A safe trip depends on a safe adequate t.v. A not so smart car should not tow a 30' airstream regardless of how good a deal the camper was. My ram semi 2 wd. 8 spd. tran. crew pulled a 21" escape through 3,000 mi. of gnarly weather like a champ. No truck squat and a level camper with no tow accessories. Works for me.

What may I ask is a ram semi ?
I have a 2019 Ram 1500 Quad Cab V8 , 8 speed transmission , 3.92 rearend , airlifts ,pulling an Escape 21 and it certainly doesn’t match your description

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I’d love to have a link, Floyd, as all the sources I’ve read pretty much agree that compression braking is related to displacement.

But perhaps the problem is mitigated by the increased number of gears available?

I do understand we’re not talking about exhaust braking.

Notice I said
"Of course modern turbos have around 10/1 compression ratios and would easily match the engine braking capability of comparable displacement non-turbo engines."
Also include compression ratios and now even variable valve timing strategies.


Of course gear ratios (including the number available) and shift strategies are factors as well.
All in all, the turbo is not a factor.


Down grade driving should not be a matter of "engine braking only" anyway. Engine braking should supplement wheel braking to prevent overheating.


Look on You Tube at TFLTruck and "IKE Gauntlet".
These guys test every kind of truck, so take your pick on which trucks they compare.
They count on the truck doing the work and making all the choices , so there is no test of maximum engine braking.

[vin]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

What may I ask is a ram semi ?
I have a 2019 Ram 1500 Quad Cab V8 , 8 speed transmission , 3.92 rearend , airlifts ,pulling an Escape 21 and it certainly doesn’t match your description

A ram Semi is a typo for Hemi which is what is in your v/8 ram Steve.
Your quad cab has smaller rear doors than my crew cab. Same options.
So what else of importance doesn't match for you?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by vin

A ram Semi is a typo for Hemi which is what is in your v/8 ram Steve.
Your quad cab has smaller rear doors than my crew cab. Same options.
So what else of importance doesn't match for you?

“ Tows like a champ “ would not be my description but your expectations may be dufferent than mine . i’ve owned a 2011 , 2014 and a 2019 Ram 1500
All have been an adequate tow vehicles for my 17 ft Casita and my 21 ft Escape in the flat lands of Wisconsin but non have been a champ when towing in the mountains IMHO
The only truck I felt towed well in the mountains was a Ram 2500 with the Cummins diesel .

[floyd]

This is a "Champ"...

So is this...

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by floyd

This is a "Champ"...

So is this...

Thanks Floyd , that truck is a real CHAMP !!

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

“ Tows like a champ “ would not be my description but your expectations may be dufferent than mine . i’ve owned a 2011 , 2014 and a 2019 Ram 1500

All have been an adequate tow vehicles for my 17 ft Casita and my 21 ft Escape in the flat lands of Wisconsin but non have been a champ when towing in the mountains IMHO

The only truck I felt towed well in the mountains was a Ram 2500 with the Cummins diesel .

Seems to say more about your expectations than any deficiency in the vehicles themselves if a full-size hemi V8 is somehow weak in pulling a sub-3500# Casita anywhere in North America.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Seems to say more about your expectations than any deficiency in the vehicles themselves if a full-size hemi V8 is somehow weak in pulling a sub-3500# Casita anywhere in North America.

Your right , I had high expectations for a 1/2 ton truck with a modern 5.7 liter V8 engine .
I assumed the truck wouldn’t struggle getting over the Rockies , poor assumption on my part . My truck also has an 8 speed transmission which seems to translate into the transmission always being in search of the right gear but never quite finding it .

[Jon in AZ]

So it’s really the transmission you don’t like. Curious... does it have a tow/haul or manual mode?

The problem I’ve found with transmissions is they can only react to changing conditions; they can’t anticipate what’s coming. Until they can do that, there will always be room for driver intervention, especially in the mountains.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

So it’s really the transmission you don’t like. Curious... does it have a tow/haul or manual mode?

The problem I’ve found with transmissions is they can only react to changing conditions; they can’t anticipate what’s coming. Until they can do that, there will always be room for driver intervention, especially in the mountains.

Yes it has tow haul mode and manual mode
My point is that I have towed my Escape 21 with a 1 ton Ford diesel truck and I could definitely tell that there was something tagging along for the ride
When I read that someone is towing a 3500 lb trailer with a mini van and he / she doesn’t even know a trailer is back there , I wonder how this is humanly possible .
Our Escape 21 with a GVWR of 5000 lbs is about as far as I am willing to go with my 2019 Ram (Tow Rating = 11400 lbs )
If members of this forum can advocate for towing with a 4 cyl minivan or a midget SUV then I can advocate for towing with a full size , properly equipped truck .

[thrifty bill]

"When I read that someone is towing a 3500 lb trailer with a mini van and he / she doesn’t even know a trailer is back there, I wonder how this is humanly possible."

Its very possible, particularly if you don't have prior towing experience (no frame of reference). I towed a trailer behind a motorcycle for years. I listened to people with the same exact motorcycle and trailer combo report that they "didn't even know it was back there". I on the other hand had a second trailer, aerodynamic shape, air suspension, weighed at least 100 pounds less, etc. It pulled night and day better/easier than the other one. It got where I hated pulling the second trailer. Meanwhile others reported not even feeling it back there.

Another factor is the distance of trips and the grades. A weekend camper may never have an issue. But go on a long trip, experience some bad weather, and all of a sudden, you will notice it. On short trips, if the weather is bad, you may just cancel the weekend camping. On long trips, sooner or later, you will end up in bad weather.

Finally, some are perfectly fine with going 35MPH when they hit an unusually steep grade.

+10 to Jon's comment below. I call a modern truck the Lincoln Town Car of my generation. My dad drove a Town Car, it was a boat, freakin' huge, but very comfortable. My modern F150 is about that comfortable and more useful. Does everyone need a pickup truck to tow? No. When my wife's car dies, we probably will get her a mid sized SUV, which I will use occasionally to tow the Trillium (which I just weighed on a CAT scale, at 1540 pounds total loaded for a camping trip).

[Jon in AZ]

Near as I can tell, Steve, you haven’t advocated for anything, only against. But that, too, is your prerogative.

Statements like “I can’t even tell it’s back there” don’t ring true for me either. But some people only tow in low elevation, relatively flat terrain. I can see that, allowing for a little hyperbole, one might say that.

Speaking of hyperbole, no one (in this thread, at least) has recommended a “4-cylinder minivan or a midget SUV.” There has been some discussion of mid-sized trucks and larger crossovers. That doesn’t seem way off-base in a thread about towing a Casita 17, which is well within their rated capacities (properly equipped).

You are also free to suggest a full-size truck might be a better choice. For some people and situations I’d even be inclined to agree.

In my view, though, modern half-ton, crew cab pickups have become the new Buick Electra: luxurious, oversized, undersprung, with a very large trunk.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Near as I can tell, Steve, you haven’t advocated for anything, only against. But that, too, is your prerogative.

Statements like “I can’t even tell it’s back there” don’t ring true for me either. But some people only tow in low elevation, relatively flat terrain. I can see that, allowing for a little hyperbole, one might say that.

Speaking of hyperbole, no one (in this thread, at least) has recommended a “4-cylinder minivan or a midget SUV.” There has been some discussion of mid-sized trucks and larger crossovers. That doesn’t seem way off-base in a thread about towing a Casita 17, which is well within their rated capacities (properly equipped).

You are also free to suggest a full-size truck might be a better choice. For some people and situations I’d even be inclined to agree.

In my view, though, modern half-ton, crew cab pickups have become the new Buick Electra: luxurious, oversized, undersprung, with a very large trunk. :

Speaking of not reading what was posted , I said “ ON THIS FORUM “
not “ IN THIS THREAD “. There was a rather lengthy thread recently advocating towing a 3000 to 3500 lb trailer with a small mini van . The idea that because others do something makes it okay has never computed for me
IE “ Is anyone towing an Escape 21 with a Mini Cooper ? “