Hitch mounts & ball

[David Tilston]

It should be noted that Tom Young, when he was making Trilliums, advised against the use of a weight distribution hitch. He was never very detailed in any explanation why. I got the impression that he thought that the trailer frame would not be able to handle the additional stress.

A broken frame would also be a problem.

[redbarron55]

Loading on the frame on trailers that already have a problem with cracks and breaks would be a problem,Many vehicles with unibody chassis don't recommend WDH use, but Chrysler not only does not advise against it, but requires it in the factory hitch information if the trailer weight is over 1800 lbs, hence the WDH for the Scamp.
I know that many do not use the weight distribution hitch successfully, but the balance of the van is better with it.

[k corbin]

Originally Posted by biker

thank you Charlie for the good information.

the one thought I was having was if I go the used trailer route and it was a good drive away to where the current owner lives.

would like to have something in case I decide to buy after looking at it and didn't know if there was a safe height to factor for and maybe pick up something basic (inexpensive) that would work well regardless of the FG trailer make/model and then look at (more expensive) anti-sway bar/weight distribution hitch options after I get the trailer home.

are anti-sway bar/weight distribution hitches ALWAYS a good idea with FG trailers? or is it wise to trying towing first without one to see how it goes?

thanks again!

What I did when I bought my trailer out of town was reserve a spot at a campground nearby the town. I also researched and found a place that sold the drop fittings for the hitch and could install the ball on it using pneumatic wrench equipment. I had found my trailer before I bought the hitch to put under my car. When I went back to pick up the trailer I backed my car next to the hitch fitting and then measured what size of adapter I would need. Then I went to the store and got it. It was almost right but not quite however it was good enough to haul the trailer back to that store with me. They exchanged it and moved to ball to the new fitting at no extra charge.

If you can make the pickup on a day, during the morning hours, when the stores are open. Sunday is not a good day to pickup a trailer that needs some stuff done for the trip. Having an extra day before you hit the road gives you a chance to sort it all out.

[Rzrbrn]

Originally Posted by biker

thank you Charlie for the good information.

the one thought I was having was if I go the used trailer route and it was a good drive away to where the current owner lives.

would like to have something in case I decide to buy after looking at it and didn't know if there was a safe height to factor for and maybe pick up something basic (inexpensive) that would work well regardless of the FG trailer make/model and then look at (more expensive) anti-sway bar/weight distribution hitch options after I get the trailer home.

are anti-sway bar/weight distribution hitches ALWAYS a good idea with FG trailers? or is it wise to trying towing first without one to see how it goes?

thanks again!

When you first get your trailer try to set it up so that it is level or slightly nose down. Put whatever load you have mostly in front of the axle such that it is heavier in the front than the back. The recommended amount is 10% to 15% of the weight should be on the hitch, but if you have a stout tow vehicle, at least until you get it home, stow stuff in the front. See where your fresh water tank is, if in back of the axle maybe don't put any water in it or not much water. Make sure you have the right size ball. Connect your safety chains, connect the breakaway switch to the TV, check your brake lights and turn signals and off you go. Make sure your brake controller is plugged in and working, THEN off you go.

A Trailer that is correctly set up does not need a WDH. The problem is that people new to trailering don't really know how to set up a trailer. As you drive it home, assuming you have to go a few miles, you will feel the various forces that act on the TT and TV. Try to set it up correctly a few times and take it on at least a short trip. Then research and find a WDH that appeals to you, spend the money and try it on a few trips. You may not ever need it, but I suspect, like me you will feel a difference.

If possible take your TV and TT in and weight it on truck scales.

I don't do that, but I probably will sooner or later.

I just trust my gut feeling about equalling loading the trailer from side to side, as I do when I load my truck. I do have and use a Sherline Scale and it gives a pretty good idea of what is going on.

After driving without a WDH, I then bought a WDH. While I don't NEED a WDH, I do detect a bit of difference, so I aways use it.

[Steve Carlson]

There are adjustable-drop ball mounts available, though IMO they are kind of cumbersome and expensive for the benefit.
https://www.etrailer.com/Ball-Mounts...BoC1woQAvD_BwE

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by Wayne Collins

We towed a 2800+ lb Scamp for 16 years with Honda Odysseys and no WDH.
Just don't put too much heavy stuff in the back of your van, to reduce the droop.

The above from the Odyssey forum.
The difference is that Chrysler says use one over 1800 lbs.
With the Chrysler OEM hitch the unit mounts in the "frame" rails where the rear bumper "crash" bar was located and extends a good ways into the chassis.
With this hitch you lose the weight of the bumper bar and add a relatively small amount that is the added receiver hitch.
With the aftermarket hitches the entire weight of the hitch is added and the mounting points are not as strong and integral to the chassis.
The receiver is also higher and less likely to drag on driveways etc.
But to each his own.
The setup may be overkill for a Scamp, but it tows well and has a reserve safety margin for emergency situations.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

When you first get your trailer try to set it up so that it is level or slightly nose down...

That's correct for a single axle trailer. For a tandem it's the opposite: level or slightly nose up.

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

...A Trailer that is correctly set up does not need a WDH...

Huh? Many light truck manufacturers specify that WDH must be used for trailers over 5000# or so. A larger molded trailer can be well within the ratings and capabilities of a properly equipped half ton pickup truck, but not without WDH.

Did I misunderstand your point?

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

That's correct for a single axle trailer. For a tandem it's the opposite: level or slightly nose up.

This is exactly correct as with a tandem axle if the weight is too much on the front axle and the springs are bound where the load is on that axle it is just like the CG is way to the rear and very unstable, VERY UNSTABLE!

[trainman]

I've always felt that a WDH's is what people use to correct and incorrect setup between there tow vehicle and there trailer, well that's exactly what they are doing. So many want to take there under powered, under rated, under size vehicle and have it do what is was not intended for, yes you can look at all the tow ratings for each vehicle, but no one looks at the stress factor that a WDH does do to your vehicle. I personally would not have a tow vehicle that didn't at least double the GVWR that I needed for what I was pulling and the additional loaded weight. I know many will still force the issue with what they have and make it work, but not my idea of good safe pulling.

trainman

[Wayne Collins]

Originally Posted by trainman

I've always felt that a WDH's is what people use to correct and incorrect setup between there tow vehicle and there trailer, well that's exactly what they are doing. So many want to take there under powered, under rated, under size vehicle and have it do what is was not intended for, yes you can look at all the tow ratings for each vehicle, but no one looks at the stress factor that a WDH does do to your vehicle. I personally would not have a tow vehicle that didn't at least double the GVWR that I needed for what I was pulling and the additional loaded weight. I know many will still force the issue with what they have and make it work, but not my idea of good safe pulling.

trainman

I suppose you are a belt AND suspenders guy too. The heavier your rig, the more fuel you burn. You can't defy the laws of physics.

[redbarron55]

I guess a Diesel Ford F350 dually will tow a 13' Scamp OK.

[redbarron55]

Also some smaller cars and minivans require WDH to handle their full rated load
For example my 2016 Town & Country requires one over 1800 lbs load and the factory hitch and chassis is designed for it.
Works quite well with my much modified and heavy 16' Scamp with the Reese Mini 350 hitch.
As the hitch replaces the bumper bar the added weight for the hitch is less than an after market unit.
Important since the weight of the hitch is a part of the tongue weight.

[Wayne Collins]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I guess a Ford F350 dually will tow a 13' Scamp OK.

Major overkill.

[Rzrbrn]

Originally Posted by trainman

I've always felt that a WDH's is what people use to correct and incorrect setup between there tow vehicle and there trailer, well that's exactly what they are doing. So many want to take there under powered, under rated, under size vehicle and have it do what is was not intended for, yes you can look at all the tow ratings for each vehicle, but no one looks at the stress factor that a WDH does do to your vehicle. I personally would not have a tow vehicle that didn't at least double the GVWR that I needed for what I was pulling and the additional loaded weight. I know many will still force the issue with what they have and make it work, but not my idea of good safe pulling.

trainman

Exactly what I have been trying to say. Better big and safe than small and marginal.

[redbarron55]

When the manufacturer suggests the WDH over a particular weight the chassis is designed for it and it is necessary to meet the specifications of handling safely and the SAE specifications.
Of course if you decide that a lot of overkill makes you safer then it is your money and time.
I know that if I do not use the WDH with my T&C under some circumstances there are problems with wheel spin when starting on grades.
The WDH balances the additional weight front to back and the anti sway built into the Mini 350 makes the driving easy and comfortable.
The 283 hp is plenty of power for towing the 2800 lb Frank N. Scamp.
Many vehicles are not rated for the WDH, but the T&C actually requires it over 1800 lbs and most trucks towing over 5000 lbs also require the WDH.
The reason for the small fiberglass trailers is to allow for towing with something other than a truck.

[Rzrbrn]

I prefer large motor, brakes and WDH. We like cruising the mountains. We go places where the 5.7 Tundra w 4.13 gear ratio pulling the Casta has to be braked going down hill in low gear. So far no brake fade. Nice to have a large vehicle.

[biker]

Thank you everyone for the terrific information. I am still digesting and will likely have follow-up questions.

Not to start debates or add gas to the fire but more for informative purposes I am adding here what the owner's manual for our '18 Tundra has in the towing section - along with much more detail

"If the gross trailer weight is over 2,000 lb., a sway control device with sufficient capacity is required."

"If the gross trailer weight is over 5,000 lb., a weight distribution hitch with sufficient capacity is required."

Rzrbrn - when you tow with your Tundra do you use the manual shifting option full-time for engine braking and to save brake life?

Curious what is common practice around this but it seems manual shifting to save wear & tear (and hopefully dollars!) makes sense.

Thank you again everyone!

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by biker

Curious what is common practice around this but it seems manual shifting to save wear & tear (and hopefully dollars!) makes sense.

Newer trucks generally come with a Tow/Haul mode. It's designed by folks more knowledgeable than us to "understand" what is needed in a given situation. It's not absent minded or prone to distraction. Try it first, it may suit you. Manual selection is still an option for unusual situations.

[redbarron55]

Many new vehicles with factory towing packages automatically detect the trailer hookup and change programming of the systems to account for it.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Wayne Collins

I suppose you are a belt AND suspenders guy too. The heavier your rig, the more fuel you burn. You can't defy the laws of physics.

The mass does affect fuel consumption but not unless you try to move it. The more aggressively you try to move it the more energy it takes.
GM uses cylinder cut outs on their V8 trucks to use only 4CYL for those times when you choose to go nowhere and have all day to get there.
I'm betting it does alright down a steep grade with a tailwind, even with a trailer...


How much energy do you suppose a it takes to move a Formula 1 car at WOT?



Mass takes a backseat to shape when it comes to holding a speed once attained.