Hitch weight with accessories...help and opinions appreciated

[easygojoe]

Hi. I have not yet purchased my Casita 17, but am soon on the hunt. So this is a hypothetical question I'm hoping to answer.

We will be buying a Honda generator (i2000) and placing this in a locking tongue box above the propane tanks along with a one or two gallon can of gas. I want it here so it's locked and fumes are out of the way and out of the tow vehicle. The tow vehicle is a 2008 Durango V8 with plenty of capability for towing this trailer.

The question is, if I choose to use a bike rack that mounts up on the tow vehicles receiver hitch ( you know, with one of those accessory double recover stingers) which would essentially put the bikes between the tow vehicle and the trailer, would the weight of the rack and the two bikes be added to the hitch weight calculus?

I understand I want my hitch weight to be 10% to 15% of total loaded trailer weight. So the generator will count obviously on the hitch weight, but since the bikes would be resting on the tow vehicles receiver and forward of the tow ball, does it count toward the 10-15 % number or not?

We already have great bikes and I just want to haul them economically and efficiently. To get a quality roof rack for the tow vehicle is pretty spendy and access sucks. To get a hitch on the tail of the trailer is an option but I've read where every pound you put on the tail of the trailer takes off like a pound and a half from the tongue. I don't want to be light up there. And a good smooth tow is a must ( incidentally I flipped and totaled an old travel trailer many years ago in a swaying situation which nearly ended my life and others.... It was terrifying and Ill have none of that ever again)

So please forgive my over thinking this problem... But I have history.

Opinions are so much wanted. Thank you.

[Jon in AZ]

Those hitch extenders generally come with a caveat that they reduce the allowable tongue weight by 50%. Most also move the ball further away from the back of the vehicle, which is bad for stability. And yes, it all adds to tongue weight, which from the vehicle's perspective is everything that rests on the hitch.

Considering the typically high tongue weight of a Casita 17D (average 400-425# normally loaded) plus a tongue box with a generator, I really think it would be better to carry the bikes on the back. Little House Customs sells a bolt-on Orbital Machine Works receiver that takes a bike rack. Given the naturally high tongue weight, I don't think two bikes on the back would affect stability unless they're made of lead.

I would also be surprised, given the rearward axle placement on a Casita 17, that 1 pound on the back would translate to 1.5 pounds off the front. I'd expect more the reverse, but I haven't tested it (or measured and done the math).

[rbryan]

Putting a pound of weight on the back of a Casita won't translate to 1 1/2 pounds of weight off the tongue. Probably not even an equal amount, due to the fact that the axle is rear of center, as Jon points out.

I would consider mounting the bikes on the rear of the trailer. They're out of the way, out of the wind stream, there's no need for an extended coupler, and the fact that you're mounting a genny and gas up front means it'll probably all balance out.

Weigh it with a Shurline scale once you're set up, but I doubt any adjustments will be necessary.

[Borrego Dave]

Joe, just a thumbs up on Orbitals receiver hitch. I added it to my SD17, was a perfect fit.

[easygojoe]

Thank you guys for the thoughtful responses. I had no idea that a typical Casita 17 had a loaded tongue weight of over 400 lbs. That really changes my thinking...

If loaded she weighed out at say 3200lbs, 400lbs is 12.5% before the generator. So I believe you guys are spot on about adding bikes to the back.

I don't know where I read the back pound takes a pound and a half off the front, but it's something I seem to remember. I probably just have the ratio wrong

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by easygojoe

Thank you guys for the thoughtful responses. I had no idea that a typical Casita 17 had a loaded tongue weight of over 400 lbs. That really changes my thinking...
If loaded she weighed out at say 3200lbs, 400lbs is 12.5% before the generator. So I believe you guys are spot on about adding bikes to the back.
I don't know where I read the back pound takes a pound and a half off the front, but it's something I seem to remember. I probably just have the ratio wrong

There is a thread here, trailer weight in the real world, that as many rigs weighed coming into a rally that a member weighed "camp ready". The 17' Casitas are very tongue heavy and because of that the 17s may be less problematic to bikes on the rear. Unlike many FG owners, I travel with a full 25 gal fresh tank which is rear curb side. Anything extra loaded inside that's heavy is in the isle over the axle and my tongue weight is 364/5 every time. My tug, an '02 Ranger, 4l auto, 4dr tows it fine with no WDH or sway control. I carry/store my Honda 2000 behind the cab seat so it doesn't grow legs . BTW, the 2000 runs my roof air for 8 1/4 hours on a full tank. As far as the weight ratio, if I remember correctly, Orbital Machine Works has a list of the weight changes for the receiver front to rear.

[Jon in AZ]

Here's a link to the thread Dave mentioned:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html
Post #297 links to a spreadsheet of the data. It can be filtered by length, make, and model and a table near the bottom gives average weights. Very helpful.

You are wise to be cautious, as your earlier experience has taught. Good news is the Casita 17 is a very stable design. A friction anti-sway bar would provide an additional margin of safety. Depending on how the final loaded tongue weight comes out, you might still need to consider using a light-duty WDH- check your Durango owner's manual for guidance on that.

[mary and bob]

That Orbital Machine rear receiver looks like a nice piece, but expensive and shipping was high too so I built my own. However I very seldom put a bike back there, instead carry them in the bed of my 2012 Ram 1500. Tongue weight of our '96 Casita SD 17 was quite high and after our first winter traveling in it I went down to one 7 pound propane tank as we generally don't cook inside. No way would I want to carry a generator and gas on the tongue or use a hitch extender bike rack mount. I actually own one of those double receiver things, used it once, didn't like it, never used it again. Some specify that it reduces receiver capacity by 50%, some do not.

[WizWid]

1 pound (1 foot 3 inches behind the rear of the bumper) on the rear of a 17' Casita takes 0.57 pounds off the tongue.

Jim

[J Ron]

We have a 17'Casita LD. I carry a Honda 2000 and 3 gal gas over my propane tanks. I have a $20 bolt on hitch receiver and a carrier on back bumper with a box on it for setup items. I use WDH and antisway bar and it tows like a dream

[easygojoe]

Thanks guys so much.
The rear it is. I will put that at the top of my shopping list (the rear hitch).

I plan on traveling to find a Casita. I'm in Oregon. So maybe my return trip from Texas or wherever with the new Casita could include a coordinated stop at little house customs for a hitch pickup? A big portion of the used casitas for sale are in the southwest.

I will get plenty of road time to see how she tows😁😁

[RogerDat]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that weight on the tow vehicle receiver is "tongue weight" as applies to the percentage of total trailer weight on tongue.

The percentage of trailer weight on tongue is a figure used to express the "balance" of the trailer, it should be 10% nose heavy. This is for stable towing. Bikes sharing the same receiver but NOT on the trailer itself don't change the trailer center of gravity. You measure tongue weight with trailer off vehicle. Those bikes hanging one the vehicle do not matter to the trailer balance.

They would certainly count as tongue weight relative to what the tow vehicle is rated for in terms of tongue or Gross Vehicle Weight. If you put a hundred pounds on the receiver it comes out of what the tow vehicle and receiver allow. But weight riding on vehicle chassis doesn't help balance the trailer.

Back bumper is good location but you may find a need to strengthen the bumper and rear frame with some cross bracing. I know a scamp frame and bumper are not really strong enough that I would trust them to hold a couple of bikes without a little bit of additional bracing welded on. Lot of leverage in that upright bike hanger, and the "back of the bus" is going to bounce a bit.

[Jon in AZ]

You're right, Roger. I meant that everything counts against the tongue weight rating of the vehicle.

You're also right: only things on the trailer itself contribute to the 10-15% tongue weight needed for proper trailer balance.

Thanks for pointing out the difference.

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

You're right, Roger. I meant that everything counts against the tongue weight rating of the vehicle.

You're also right: only things on the trailer itself contribute to the 10-15% tongue weight needed for proper trailer balance.

Thanks for pointing out the difference.

That hitch weight can make the tow vehicle itself unstable, it was a good point on safety you made.

The vehicle tongue weight rating can be a surprisingly low limit, as can the GVW, easy to exceed without going anywhere near over the towing limit. Subaru owners have one of the more extreme cases. Tow 3,000 lbs. (or maybe more) but hitch weight limit of around 200 lbs.

And put enough weight on the back of a front wheel drive tow vehicle and you can find yourself hydroplaning the light loaded front wheels on wet pavement. Been there and done that, not fun.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Here's a link to the thread Dave mentioned:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html
Post #297 links to a spreadsheet of the data.

Thanks for adding that Jon, I haven't been able to get it to attach/load but I knew someone would .

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

...And put enough weight on the back of a front wheel drive tow vehicle and you can find yourself hydroplaning the light loaded front wheels on wet pavement. Been there and done that, not fun.

High tongue weight affects steering, braking, and even wheel alignment & tire wear on any vehicle regardless of drivetrain. In a FWD drive vehicle it also affects traction. I believe the OP's Durango is a RWD drivetrain with an AWD option.

Many vehicles with high tow ratings contain a caveat in the owner's manual that WDH is needed over XXXX pounds. If you take 10% of that number, that is the tongue weight threshold for WDH. A Casita 17 might approach the tongue weight threshold of some vehicles even if the total trailer weight is still well below.

Originally Posted by RogerDat

...Back bumper is good location but you may find a need to strengthen the bumper and rear frame with some cross bracing. I know a scamp frame and bumper are not really strong enough that I would trust them to hold a couple of bikes without a little bit of additional bracing welded on. Lot of leverage in that upright bike hanger, and the "back of the bus" is going to bounce a bit.

Agree- I had to add an additional frame cross-member to mount a rear receiver to my Scamp. The Orbital receiver integrates additional bracing for the rear frame, which is already stouter on the Casita 17 than some older designs like Scamp.

A well-designed bike rack is essential. For lightweight road bikes, Kuat has been mentioned as a good choice. For mountain bikes, I'd look for a tray-type rack. In either case, I'd want lightweight bikes that weigh around 35 pounds or less. Beware- some inexpensive mountain bikes and most cruiser bikes are quite heavy! If the rack doesn't include it (many do), use a device to eliminate slop in the rack-to-receiver connection.