Hitch ? Where to install?

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

.........
So when your hitch guy says "yeah, you can use that", who reviews the decision and does the hitch place take any responsibility? I didn't think so...

Your point is valid, but in the context of the progression of this discussion from a specialty towing service like CanAM, I would say that there is informal regulation. The initial regulator is the laws of physics. If you generate a towing solution that is inherently unstable, there will be almost immediate consequences. Longer term, there is the power of the marketplace. Every single person that buys a towing setup has the power to share their experience widely on forums like this, on social media like Facebook or Yelp and to complain to government regulators or the BBB. Additionally, a towing shop needs to keep their liability insurance, providing an additional level of scrutiny to their practices. In spite of the ongoing criticism here of Can Am specifically and hitch shops in general, I've seen no evidence of a systemic issue. Perhaps I've missed something and someone can show me a list of unhappy Can Am customers - I'd welcome it.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by McKenna Lynn

I'm still learning all this. But I was under the impression the Scamp required a 2 in. And if Subaru doesn't make that, then I have no choice but to go to a hitch installer, regardless of other factors.

Lynn as Brian suggests, Scamp doesn't require you to have a 2" receiver bar only a 2" ball. You need to check the actual trailer as many of their trailers including the 16' only had an 1 7/8" ball for years and its only been a few years since they switched to a 2" coupler on the 13' as well.

Subaru sells what is known as Class I or Class II hitches only. In your case the Outback is rated depending on which model you have to tow 2800lbs or 3000lbs so you should get a Class II hitch for it as it is rated to tow up to 3500lbs which is more than the Outbacks towing capacity. The draw bar receiver box on a Class II hitch as mentioned is not 2" but that does not mean you can not get a 2" ball to put on the draw bar for it. Subaru does not sell a Class III hitch which is the one that takes a 2" receiver bar. The reason Subaru does not offer their own Class III hitch is because their cars are not rated to tow the weights that hitch is rated to tow. Their cars are also not designed for the use of a WDH (for whatever reason one wants to believe) which would require a Class III hitch.

As simple as that.

Based on my personal experience of 6 years of towing with an Outback, I happen to agree with Subaru that its a piece of equipment that is not needed or necessary to use if the trailer is within the cars towing specs. Have towed through wind storms strong enough to put semi trailers sideways on the highway in front of me and have experienced no issues with the trailer - in fact didnt even notice the wind.

Some people want the 2" receiver bar for bike rakes as they claim them to be more sturdy - again I have managed to purchase a very high end bike rack that fits the Class II hitch and dont notice any difference between its stability and the one used previously that have a 2" receiver bar. It seems that some folks forget that you still need to watch the tongue weight specs even with a bike rack - pretty easy to over load that back end of the car if you put a heavy duty bike rack and load it up with heavy mountain bikes for example.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

So when your hitch guy says "yeah, you can use that", who reviews the decision and does the hitch place take any responsibility? I didn't think so...

One great way to find/work with a responsible hitch installer is to follow the current customer reviews. Here is one customer's (from Texas) positive comments.

Andy Thomson @ Can-Am - Airstream Forums

[Carol H]

So mc1 or"W" are you saying that Andy Thomson of Can-Am is so responsible that they will take full responsibility and pay for any repairs that Subaru declines to cover under warranty as they feel the damage was the result of using equipment Can-Am installed that they do not recommend for use on their cars?

If so then thats one heck of a hitch shop! Wish I could find me one of those on this side of the country

Curious if anyone has a copy of the front and BACK of the service order for Can-Am that you are probable needing to sign (as you do at most hitch shops) before they start work on installing a hitch? if so it would be great if you were to scan and post it.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

So mc1 or"W" are you saying that ........

Just a happy CA customer here carol passing along the good experience.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

... are you saying that Andy Thomson of Can-Am is so responsible that they will take full responsibility and pay for any repairs that Subaru declines to cover under warranty as they feel the damage was the result of using equipment Can-Am installed that they do not recommend for use on their cars?

If so then thats one heck of a hitch shop! Wish I could find me one of those on this side of the country

On the side of the country which has real mountains (not the "Hamilton Mountain" that Andy has used as a climbing test) and 200 km stretches of uninterrupted high-speed roads? Not likely

[RogerDat]

I once had to tow with a loaner TV. It was a Ford Explorer with a 1 inch reciever. I had a heck of a time finding an in-stock draw bar with enough drop for the scamp. There were just more choices for 2 inch.

Explorer probably had a good deal more towing capacity than my Escape. Hitch probably had same capacity (Class ll) as the hitch with 2 inch reciever on the Escape.

Bottom Line (IMO):
You can get acceptable capacity in 1 inch or 2 inch draw bar. You may have to do a bit more hunting to find the bar or accessories you want, or order them but they are available, might not have as many choices to choose from but enough for most purposes.

If the manufacturer says "don't do it" don't matter much why. If you decide your gonna go ahead anyway it's your problem if it does not work out. Fry your AWD tranny, or warp your frame, well you were warned. Now it's live and learn time.

On professionals, people who do something for years, for a living in a shop with a good reputation for the quality of their work are good people to get advice from. Even a relative rookie if working with experienced people in the shop has the resources to give you a good job. Don't tell them what you want. Ask them what they recommend. If what they suggests conflicts with the manufacturers "don't" then look elsewhere for an installer or mechanic unless they give you a darn good reason and the shop provides a written guarantee to stand behind any and all consequences (good luck with that).

What I'm really saying is listen (respectfully) to the reason for blowing off the manufacutures recommendation because it could be interesting, then leave.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

It was a Ford Explorer with a 1 inch reciever...

1.25" (or 1 1/4"), not 1".. but I think most of us knew you meant that, Roger.

In at least some years, Ford put a 1.25" receiver on an Explorer or Sport Trac without the towing package, and a 2" receiver on the same models with the towing package. It would have been cheaper for them to just put the 2" in all of them. I think the difference was a hint to buyers: if you want to tow much, get the equipment. This thread's subject Subaru is fine with the 1.25", but with SUVs and trucks people would try to hook up 5000 pound trailers if you made it easy for them...

[MC1]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

What I'm really saying is listen (respectfully) to the reason for blowing off the manufacutures recommendation because it could be interesting, then leave.

A good post Roger and yes there are many examples of manufacturers shortcomings.

Years ago I had U-Haul install a receiver on our 3 year old Nissan Van. After 30 min on the highway it just about fell off. They installed the receiver by the book using the 4 threaded frame inserts. The problem was the build up of rust in the threads had weakened the threads and the bolts stripped out.

Understanding the issues I modified the whole deal by drilling out the inserts and installed quality nuts and bolts to secure the hardware. Also added extra brackets to make 8 mounting points instead of the factory 4. The mods created a heavy duty assembly that worked fine for the next 13 years of towing.

Through years of experience the pro's understand the possible issues and make the necessary mods and adjustments. I like the fact they can see and deal with the bigger picture.

[honda03842]

There was an Escape 15 for sale on the site towed by a 2.5 L Subaru Outback. I contacted te owner about tongue weight, trailer weight and hitch setup. He told me that they had bought the trailer from Escape and that Escape installed a W/D system on their Subaru.

Found that interesting and surprising. He claimed the Escape 15 towed beautifuly.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

On the side of the country which has real mountains (not the "Hamilton Mountain" that Andy has used as a climbing test) and 200 km stretches of uninterrupted high-speed roads? Not likely

... and the truth is that Mr. T prefers to travel the more challenging destinations to give his combinations a vigorous workout.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MC1

... and the truth is that Mr. T prefers to travel the more challenging destinations to give his combinations a vigorous workout.

Good. In dozens of magazine columns by this author I've seen no reference to towing west of Chicago, and Can Am's only business location is in southwestern Ontario.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

He told me that they had bought the trailer from Escape and that Escape installed a W/D system on their Subaru.

Found that interesting and surprising. He claimed the Escape 15 towed beautifuly.

Interesting and surprising? why? Pretty sure the WD component of the hitch system is on the pre order list from Escape. Its not the trailers manufactures responsibility to research and determine what a trailers buyers vehicle can or can not tow or what equipment the manual states should not be used, prior to the buyer placing an order for a trailer

As Escape does not install hitches on vehicles the buyer of the trailer had to have known prior that they wanted a trailer that had a higher tongue weight than what their cars specs were and had a class III hitch installed prior to pick up as you cant put a WD system that Escapes sells with the trailer, on a class II hitch which is normally found on the Outback. Its the trailer buyers responsibility to determine if their vehicle is spec'd to tow and in the case you sight the buyer obviously made the decision as to go for it regardless of what the vehicle's manual says or they would not have had a class III hitch on the vehicle when they went to pick up the trailer and have the WD system added onto it. They may not have even read the manual (how many times have we seen/heard that here) or they saw or read that someone else did it and decided it must be all good when it fact it may not be..... may be for a time ..... but then there may be at some point a big BANG and the reason for the vehicle manufacture not recommending it becomes crystal clear.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Good. In dozens of magazine columns by this author I've seen no reference to towing west of Chicago, and Can Am's only business location is in southwestern Ontario.

Brian... sorry you missed the many articles and reports of Mr. T travels. From what I have read he travels a lot towing his rigs all over North America apparently crossing the Continent many, many times.

One article he talks of towing on all the longest grades and passes in NA numerous times, not to mention the feedback he has received from 1,000's of his customers towing his setups 1,000,000 of miles. Sure his location is in SWO but he supports towing enthusiasts from all locations.

If you are interested in reading more of his travels do a search of his posts on Airforums.com. His handle there is "Andrew T"........ here.... http://www.airforums.com/forums/memb...w+t-23316.html

[honda03842]

Carol,

I was surprised because I feel that trailer manufacturers are more knowledgeable than trailer customers.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Carol,

I was surprised because I feel that trailer manufacturers are more knowledgeable than trailer customers.

Probable true but as I said do you honestly think that a company such as Scamp or Casita or Escape or any other is going to checking and reading the manual on all their customers vehicles prior to taking an order for a trailer from that customer? It may simple be that a customer says to the trailer manufacture that they are concerned that the trailers tongue weight exceeds their vehicles specs or close to it... trailer manufacture suggests a WDH might resolve that issue. It is very possible the customer was told to check their vehicles manual when the recommendation was made .... we dont know that part of the story.... Sometimes people only hear what they really want to hear.

At the end of the day as you of all people know its the owner of the vehicles responsibility to decide what equipment or trailer will work for them or not. I can only imagine the discussion for example that would take place between yourself and Scamp for example if you had bought your trailer new and the sales party was to suggest to you that you cant order that trailer as its a 1000 lbs over your vehicle's tow specs

[honda03842]

Heck Carol, I know a person towing with a Subaru Outback that has done it for years and is always over the Subaru specification.

[Carol H]

Yup so true but if your referring to me, all I can say to that is that my trailer loaded is under the total towing capacity. But the tongue weight is up to 20 to 40 lbs over spec on the tongue. Needs to be that for a solid tow as I dont believe in using a sway bar as a means of correcting a daily sway problem I know I would have (tested it out in a controlled situation) if I went lighter on the tongue. Prefer to use a sway bar as an emergency situation only device not as a fix to a problem.

Have I had no problems? Nope. Have had to do repairs and replace parts over the last year or so on a car that only has 70,000 miles (30,000 miles of that have been towing)- repairs & replacements that were never required on any of the previous 3 Outbacks owned with the same mileage and no towing. Each time I ask the independent service guys who work on the car why such and such a part is needing replacing when it didn't on my last Outback. They look at me with an evil smile and say "Tell me again, what the trailer weighs your pulling and over what mountain did you pull it last week and how fast where you going, how hot was it out and how many miles have you logged towing?"

Its also the reason for my suggesting the OP and anyone else who asked me about towing with the Outback in the last couple of years, is that they stick with a 13' trailer with the Outback

My Outback is very shortly going to be retired from towing and become the daily commuter vehicle for my partner and for driving to the ski hill for races only for me.

Sorry got to run have an appointment to take a test drive in a gently used truck with way more towing capacity & designed to actually tow a trailer of the size I own and maybe even my future slightly bigger trailer. And its MPG is about the same as my Outback!

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Sorry got to run have an appointment to take a test drive in a gently used truck with way more towing capacity & designed to actually tow a trailer of the size I own and maybe even my future slightly bigger trailer. And its MPG is about the same as my Outback!

Interesting. Just wondering if the problems of your vehicle were related to the towing or for other reasons???. I think it is common for auto service techs to want to blame out side situations for the problems with the cars, if they can get away with it.

We have over 200 hours of towing on our 11 year old car. As you know it is towing many times the tow rating. It has no tow pkg. The only drive train issue was a $150. wheel bearing.

Since we both tow with cars I will pass along a talk I once had with a well known towing guru.
I asked him about towing related problems when using a car. He said he has feedback from 1,000's of his customers. He said over all the trucks have more problems than the cars and the problems the trucks have are more expensive to fix.

[honda03842]

W, I forgot what vehicle you tow with and what size Airstream you tow, please remind me.

Like you, we have successfully towed with a small non-truck vehicle, our Honda CRV, without any issues outside of a thermostat and a fan, not bad for 200,000 miles.

It's unfortunate that there is a strong element on this site that discourages newbies. I know people who have purchased new tow vehicles or smaller trailers because of their views.

Fear, particularly in today's society, is easy to create since it underlies much of today's media.